[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Raggs]

Sale really don't use the current Curry in a way that boosts his England chances. He's stuck out on the wing, ready to support fast breaks, whilst Ross is performing a more England style 7 role. It's going to make it hard for him to push for recognition.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Sale really don't use the current Curry in a way that boosts his England chances. He's stuck out on the wing, ready to support fast breaks, whilst Ross is performing a more England style 7 role. It's going to make it hard for him to push for recognition.

EJ I sense will be more interested in his ability to jackal, his pace to the breakdown and link play.

I also think that if they start looking to sort out the attack in SA, then Curry will be perfect. Whilst he's supporting these quick breaks he can also support isolated tackled players and improve ball retention.

 

[Raggs]

EJ I sense will be more interested in his ability to jackal, his pace to the breakdown and link play.

I also think that if they start looking to sort out the attack in SA, then Curry will be perfect. Whilst he's supporting these quick breaks he can also support isolated tackled players and improve ball retention.

EJ needs to be interested in his ability to repeatedly clear rucks on our attacking ball. We've spent nearly 2 years barely concerning ourselves with turning over opposition ball, and apart from Lawes at 6, focusing on securing our own. Pace is important and very useful, but he needs to shift bodies too, and whilst I don't know which one it was, I simply can't forget one of them failing to shift the Argentine scrum half on the tour there.

 

[curtbob7]

Said it before and ill say it again. Brendan O'Connor is an option. Whether hes good enough or not is another thing but we are hardly blessed are we.

Underhill and Curry in the back-row would only work if Billy was at 8 IMO.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Said it before and ill say it again. Brendan O'Connor is an option. Whether hes good enough or not is another thing but we are hardly blessed are we.

Underhill and Curry in the back-row would only work if Billy was at 8 IMO.

Billy set to be back mid April, could feature for Sarries against Bath (15th April), then Irish and Gloucester. Not to mention a probable AP Semi and an improbable Champions Cup Semi.

I can see him touring. Especially with Hughes out and the total lack of trust in Armand

 

[ratsapprentice]

Said it before and ill say it again. Brendan O'Connor is an option. Whether hes good enough or not is another thing but we are hardly blessed are we.

Underhill and Curry in the back-row would only work if Billy was at 8 IMO.

Brendan O'Connor is a club level journeyman.

We might not be blessed, but we do actually have decent options at 7.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

EJ needs to be interested in his ability to repeatedly clear rucks on our attacking ball. We've spent nearly 2 years barely concerning ourselves with turning over opposition ball, and apart from Lawes at 6, focusing on securing our own. Pace is important and very useful, but he needs to shift bodies too, and whilst I don't know which one it was, I simply can't forget one of them failing to shift the Argentine scrum half on the tour there.

I think the 6N has shown that if given the run of the green then having proper jackallers can be very effective. You can almost plan it and select a jackaller based on the ref...

All I know is re Ben Curry, he's happily been smashing people off rucks for Sale. His power to size ratio is huge.

 

[Raggs]

I think the 6N has shown that if given the run of the green then having proper jackallers can be very effective. You can almost plan it and select a jackaller based on the ref...

All I know is re Ben Curry, he's happily been smashing people off rucks for Sale. His power to size ratio is huge.

Can you give me some games/times when he's been particularly effective? I don't watch a huge number of Sale games, but the few I have, have seen him on the wing, and not massively involved or required for lots of smashing.

 

[curtbob7]

Brendan O'Connor is a club level journeyman.

We might not be blessed, but we do actually have decent options at 7.

ok

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Can you give me some games/times when he's been particularly effective? I don't watch a huge number of Sale games, but the few I have, have seen him on the wing, and not massively involved or required for lots of smashing.

From memory against Saints and Worcester in Nov/Dec. Against Irish earlier this year. Also handy at home against Quins.

 

[MarkyH]

Can you give me some games/times when he's been particularly effective? I don't watch a huge number of Sale games, but the few I have, have seen him on the wing, and not massively involved or required for lots of smashing.

If he's out on the wing, and Sale are running a move, I can imagine he's there to support the player if tackled, for example the winger is tackled and Curry will help prevent any turnover and secure the ball. Possibly same in defence, if Sale can isolate an attacking oppostion player Curry is in a great position to affect a turnover. However, I don't see him out there all the time when watching the extended prem highlights on BT Sport, he's still around the ruck/breakdown quite a lot

 

[Raggs]

If he's out on the wing, and Sale are running a move, I can imagine he's there to support the player if tackled, for example the winger is tackled and Curry will help prevent any turnover and secure the ball. Possibly same in defence, if Sale can isolate an attacking oppostion player Curry is in a great position to affect a turnover. However, I don't see him out there all the time when watching the extended prem highlights on BT Sport, he's still around the ruck/breakdown quite a lot

Typically you're not going to be clearing out props on the wing, but rather backs, in addition, it's generally going to be front foot ball and therefore easily supportable.

Haskell and Robshaw both hit over 30 rucks in attack against Ireland, including some powerful hits. Curry needs to show to Eddie that he can do similar. Perhaps he can, but Sale's strategy make it much harder for him to prove.

 

[ncurd]

the problem with replacing Robshaw in game is it usually means not switching out one of your other back rows. How often can we honestly say Robshaw is worst performing backrow in the match?

It creates a problem of finding a replacement and actually dropping him if he's consistently one of the top forwards in the stat department how do you justify dropping him for a young gun and not any other players?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What? Why is curry being painted as some Tom croft hanging out on the wing?
He hits a ton of rucks, his work rate is massive.
Genuinely confused by this?

 

[Raggs]

What? Why is curry being painted as some Tom croft hanging out on the wing?
He hits a ton of rucks, his work rate is massive.
Genuinely confused by this?

When I've watched him, that's very much been his role. I've asked a fair few people, a fair few times, if you can point me to a game where he's used tighter in, and clearing a lot of rucks, please tell me which one and I'll watch it.

 

[MarkyH]

Robshaw is constantly near the breakdown, is opposite or near the first opposition receiver, ergo his tackle stats are high, but doesn't mean he's sending them backwards. Same in attack, he's near our first receiver or is first receiver so he takes the ball and makes a carry, but these carries aren't making hard yards.

Robshaw is reliable, but we have enough people in the team who can do that. Tackle well, carry for half a meter. We need someone stronger and more aggressive at 6, or someone more dynamic.

 

[MarkyH]

What? Why is curry being painted as some Tom croft hanging out on the wing?
He hits a ton of rucks, his work rate is massive.
Genuinely confused by this?

Yep, I'd agree with this more than the opinion of him on the wing. The extended Aviva highlights on BT sport are fantastic so I've definitely seen enough of him hitting rucks rather than on the wing, but I have seen him out there, as I've seen every flank forward ever occasionally hanging out on the wing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Itoje has been playing as a lock should, and he's been doing it well, Sanderson made the same point, less flash stuff, more proper lock stuff.

Of course you've got to do the basics, but wasn't the whole reason people went into raptures about Itoje precisely that he did do things differently? If you just want someone to do the tight donkey work I'm sure that we can come up with someone bigger and stronger. I'm sticking with my view that he's tired and out of form.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Earlier 'Traditional England 7' was mentioned by Raggs, and that Curry doesn't fit this mound.

I'd argue England would happily select a openside breakdown specialist if they warranted selection, rather than essentially playing two blindsides.

Underhill and the Curry's have only realistically come into contention this season.

Prior to that, Matt Kvesic went off the boil hugely when he went to Gloucester, Sam Jones got a bad injury as did Tom Rees, Brendan O'Connor has been okay but not hugely exceptional and Stefan Armitage was over the channel.

The lack of good effective opensides has meant England got stuck in a vicious circle of selecting blindsides at both 6 and 7.

Now it's obvious there are opportunities to benefit hugely from proper opensides, and players who can fulfil that role. Let's get one in!

 

[Raggs]

Robshaw is constantly near the breakdown, is opposite or near the first opposition receiver, ergo his tackle stats are high, but doesn't mean he's sending them backwards. Same in attack, he's near our first receiver or is first receiver so he takes the ball and makes a carry, but these carries aren't making hard yards.

Robshaw is reliable, but we have enough people in the team who can do that. Tackle well, carry for half a meter. We need someone stronger and more aggressive at 6, or someone more dynamic.

Who do we have in the team that can do that, and who do we have available that's better? Lawes was massively poor in the breakdown, so please don't suggest him.

Of course you've got to do the basics, but wasn't the whole reason people went into raptures about Itoje precisely that he did do things differently? If you just want someone to do the tight donkey work I'm sure that we can come up with someone bigger and stronger. I'm sticking with my view that he's tired and out of form.

He did the flashy things, but I'd guess the basics were missing. I'm sure we should just tell Sanderson that Saracens are doing it wrong. All the players are getting beasted, but Itoje is still putting in very big shifts.

Yep, I'd agree with this more than the opinion of him on the wing. The extended Aviva highlights on BT sport are fantastic so I've definitely seen enough of him hitting rucks rather than on the wing, but I have seen him out there, as I've seen every flank forward ever occasionally hanging out on the wing.

Which game, what times on the clock? And highlights are precisely that, the best bits, what about over 80 minutes? Is he hitting 30+ rucks, making double figure tackles and double figure carries?