[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Pom in Exile]

Best thing about this 6N's for me
Pre six nations - Drop Youngs FFS, why is he in the squad? he's ****.
Post six Nations - We need Youngs back ASAP.

Standard fair really, players are always more appreciated when they're not playing than when they are, it's the same in every sport really.

 

[higgik]

My question about the whole EPS, is that how many of the squad that went to Argentina, and we're very successful, are still in now?

We all know EJs plan A is very RL based, with ball carriers hitting it up and then spinning it out when the gaps appear to the speedsters. This needs several key elements:-
1) Back row balance being, destroyer, worker and player, Billy being the main player, as he has the skill set to truck it up and also deliver passes out the back. This causes defences to pull in or remain static, allowing the pace of the back 4 to run into the space. Haskell is the destroyer, who main job is to stop opposition in their tracks, to slow down the ball, (hence why he gets pinged more than others) and to clear out attacking rucks. Robshaw is the worker who gives you a bit of everything and cover up any errors.
2) working wingers, both wingers become important ball carriers especially off the shoulder of a forward making good yards, see above with Billy.
3) high workrate, getting back into position quickly to fill gaps, including front row tackle numbers.

In Argentina he used a different plan, as he only had Robshaw. What I also want to know is where has this game plan gone, when the squad has missing players, this time through injuries.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Argentina tour had Underhill and Curry sharing the 7 shirt,
Makes a difference.

 

[higgik]

Yes, I agree about the 7, but that would have meant a different game plan surely.

The team looked far more fluid in Argentina without some of the players from yesterday.

I can also see Underhill doing the Haskell role but more effectively, and maybe Huughes was fit in the summer, but then I questions that when Billy and Hughes are out, who is doing this role? As it looks like this is the vital cog that has been missing from the team ATM.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Argentina tour had Underhill and Curry sharing the 7 shirt,
Makes a difference.

Wilson at 6 was solid aswell.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Re SA tour, we need to ensure changes are made but that it's not unrealistic change which is then not appropriate and isn't in place come Autumn and the 6N 2019.

All Lions players excluding Sinckler, Daly, Marler & Te'o NEED to be rested. Hughes and Ben Youngs can be added to that list. Hughes, Youngs and Lawes will all be recovering from injuries and I do not think rushing them back will be appropriate.

I think the best way to look at appropriate changes is looking at positional blocks and trying to balance experience off with youth. We don't want a 1998 Tour from Hell, we need senior guys in so that the new lads settle in and can be at their best. Obviously there will be additional players also as we need a bigger squad for a foreign tour.

In addition to all those players selected for England throughout the 6N in the squad the following lads need a shot:

Genge, Ewers, Tom Curry, Ben Curry, Jack Willis, Dan Robson, Ben Spencer, Manu Tuilagi, Joe Cokanasiga, Jason Woodward, Sam Hill, Sam James.

There will be others, but those spring to mind.

I'd keep Hartley, Marler, Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Ford, Brown all in the squad for some off field leadership.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Yes, I agree about the 7, but that would have meant a different game plan surely.

The team looked far more fluid in Argentina without some of the players from yesterday.

I can also see Underhill doing the Haskell role but more effectively, and maybe Huughes was fit in the summer, but then I questions that when Billy and Hughes are out, who is doing this role? As it looks like this is the vital cog that has been missing from the team ATM.

Hughes will be just coming back from injury by end of May/early June. I don't think we should rush him back. I also don't think we should take Billy Vunipola.

Armand could start at 8, Simmonds shouldn't. Potentially a Dave Ewers/Guy Thompson to be given opportunities at 8 also.

 

[Which Tyler]

Re SA tour, we need to ensure change later are made but that it's not unrealistic change which is then not appropriate and isn't in place come Autumn and the 6N 2019.

All Lions players excluding Sinckler, Daly, Marler & Te'o NEED to be rested. Hughes and Ben Youngs can be added to that list. Hughes, Youngs and Lawes will all be recovering from injuries and I do not think rushing them back will be appropriate.

I think the best way to look at appropriate changes is looking at positional blocks and trying to balance experience off with youth. We don't want a 1998 Tour from Hell, we need senior guys in so that the new lads settle in and can be at their best. Obviously there will be additional players also as we need a bigger squad for a foreign tour.

In addition to all those players selected for England throughout the 6N in the squad the following lads need a shot:

Genge, Ewers, Tom Curry, Ben Curry, Jack Willis, Dan Robson, Ben Spencer, Manu Tuilagi, Joe Cokanasiga, Jason Woodward, Sam Hill, Sam James.

There will be others, but those spring to mind.

I'd keep Hartley, Marler, Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Ford, Brown all in the squad for some off field leadership.

 

[French Tiger]

Best thing about this 6N's for me
Pre six nations - Drop Youngs FFS, why is he in the squad? he's ****.
Post six Nations - We need Youngs back ASAP.

Ha ha ha, it's so true !

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Re SA tour, we need to ensure changes are made but that it's not unrealistic change which is then not appropriate and isn't in place come Autumn and the 6N 2019.

All Lions players excluding Sinckler, Daly, Marler & Te'o NEED to be rested. Hughes and Ben Youngs can be added to that list. Hughes, Youngs and Lawes will all be recovering from injuries and I do not think rushing them back will be appropriate.

I think the best way to look at appropriate changes is looking at positional blocks and trying to balance experience off with youth. We don't want a 1998 Tour from Hell, we need senior guys in so that the new lads settle in and can be at their best. Obviously there will be additional players also as we need a bigger squad for a foreign tour.

In addition to all those players selected for England throughout the 6N in the squad the following lads need a shot:

Genge, Ewers, Tom Curry, Ben Curry, Jack Willis, Dan Robson, Ben Spencer, Manu Tuilagi, Joe Cokanasiga, Jason Woodward, Sam Hill, Sam James.

There will be others, but those spring to mind.

I'd keep Hartley, Marler, Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Ford, Brown all in the squad for some off field leadership.

Wasn't Daly in the top 5 players who played the most minutes in the lions tour.
Would rather he was rested and Nowell playing if he is fit.
TBH all the players who played in the test should be rested IMO.

Hughes is out for the tour anyway.

 

[French Tiger]

Can you tell me if he improved defensively? I do not have the chance to watch the Sale games in France ... already I have trouble watching those Tigers.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Wasn't Daly in the top 5 players who played the most minutes in the lions tour.
Would rather he was rested and Nowell playing if he is fit.
TBH all the players who played in the test should be rested IMO.

Hughes is out for the tour anyway.

Daly has been out injured though, but I could see him not going. Sinckler also banned or injured. Te'o has barely played either.

If you don't take Sincks or Cole, after Williams we start to look a little threadbare.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can you tell me if he improved defensively? I do not have the chance to watch the Sale games in France ... already I have trouble watching those Tigers.

He's not the best defensive winger in the world but the only time I've ever seen him be a liability was in Argentina.
Don't know if it was just an off day, or nerves, or maybe the step up in competition, but he's never looked half as bad as that (Which was arguably the worst defence I've seen from any winger in the international game - two attacks down his wing led directly to two tries)



His form this season hasn't been great so he's rightly dropped down the pecking order however he really perked up recently, scored 5 tries in two games

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Daly has been out injured though, but I could see him not going. Sinckler also banned or injured. Te'o has barely played either.

If you don't take Sincks or Cole, after Williams we start to look a little threadbare.

But that is the worry about the depht now though.
England need 4 TH's in mind for the World cup squad (Only need to pick 3 but we need a 4th who could cover for injuries).

I don't mind taking Sinckler because he gives himself a nice rest with those bans.... but we need to blood in another TH who i don't know Thomas, Brookes, JFR, Cilliers, Schonert, Hill? god TH gets weak after the top 3.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

But that is the worry about the depht now though.
England need 4 TH's in mind for the World cup squad (Only need to pick 3 but we need a 4th who could cover for injuries).

I don't mind taking Sinckler because he gives himself a nice rest with those bans.... but we need to blood in another TH who i don't know Thomas, Brookes, JFR, Cilliers, Schonert, Hill? god TH gets weak after the top 3.

Brookes, Thomas, Hill have all been around the set up. I'd take one of those along with Williams and Sinckler

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Brookes, Thomas, Hill have all been around the set up. I'd take one of those along with Williams and Sinckler

Have they been around Eddie Jones set-up?

Just remembered Hill went to Argentina.

DAMN YOU SAINTS LET HILL PLAY!!!!

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Have they been around Eddie Jones set-up?

Hill and Thomas both featured in 2016 6N squad and Brookes was called up midway through.

Hill went to Argentina and also spent a few weeks in the 2017 6N squad.

Will Collier also went to Argentina.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

yeh i knew Collier went to argentina.
I can't see Brookes playing for England again unless Wasps kick him up the backside big style.
Hill need Saints to fecking play him.
Thomas needs to stay fit,

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Hill would seem most likely from his level of involvement but yes, it would help if Saints played him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Paul Hill (without the AWC crap)
2015/16 season:
Total of 1059 minutes played.
4 Champ cup starts 2 bench.
5 Prem starts, 12 bench.
7 England appearances on the bench, 5 getting on.

2016/17 season:
Total of 708 minutes played
3 Champ cup starts, 3 bench.
1 prem start, 18 bench

2017/18 season:
Total of 366 minutes played (with what 5 games to go)
0 Champ cup starts, 3 bench.
3 prem starts, 6 bench.

You would think the trend should be the reserve really, with a prop getting more games as he gets older....
Still he is only 23 and has plenty of time, but really thought he would be the one to take over Cole coming to this RWC yet currently can't even start for Saints. (Whose scrum has been pretty meh). Still hope to see 1. Genge, 3. Hill start at international level one day.