[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Who's talking about Hartley?
We're talking about whether LCD is better than George, which I don't think he is (atm)

 

[FLOBALOB]

Who's talking about Hartley?
We're talking about whether LCD is better than George, which I don't think he is (atm)

I was only using DH as an example of historical, over current standings.
Things change and move on.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agree with this; although my personal opinion is that LCD is a slightly better player than George I would still keep LCD on the bench for impact, similarly to how I believe Sinckler is better than both Cole and Williams but would still start either of them over him because of the impact that Sinckler brings.

Yet you disagreed with me when I suggested Binny may be better suited as a finisher for similar reasons. Where's the cut off? What's the right starter / finisher balance? I'm not sure, but I don't think its solely about speeding the game up, I think it's about impact - that has different forms; speed's one them, so's Binny's running through a brick wall.

Given the poor carrying from the front 5, I wonder if Eddie's given any thought to converting Hughes to lock? He'd certainly add some go forward and being a naturally heavier / stronger unit than Lawes or Itoje would add some ballast to our average scrum too. You'd lose a bit in the line out, but there are ways to compensate for that. If your front 5 has power and gets you on the front foot, it increases the scope for playing smaller, more dynamic guys in the back row which I think most of us want to see. Going back a few years, Rodber converted and for a couple of years he and Johnno was the best combo around. Might not necessarily be the answer, but its certainly worth a thought.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yet you disagreed with me when I suggested Binny may be better suited as a finisher for similar reasons. Where's the cut off? What's the right starter / finisher balance? I'm not sure, but I don't think its solely about speeding the game up, I think it's about impact - that has different forms; speed's one them, so's Binny's running through a brick wall.

Given the poor carrying from the front 5, I wonder if Eddie's given any thought to converting Hughes to lock? He'd certainly add some go forward and being a naturally heavier / stronger unit than Lawes or Itoje would add some ballast to our average scrum too. You'd lose a bit in the line out, but there are ways to compensate for that. If your front 5 has power and gets you on the front foot, it increases the scope for playing smaller, more dynamic guys in the back row which I think most of us want to see. Going back a few years, Rodber converted and for a couple of years he and Johnno was the best combo around. Might not necessarily be the answer, but its certainly worth a thought.

The difference being that Vunipola is far better than any other option at 8 whereas the difference between George and LCD is marginal.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My first choice front row
1. Vunipola, 2. George, 3. Cole
2nd choice front row
1. Genge, 2. Cowan-Dickie, 3. Sinckler
3rd choice Front Row
1. Bateman, 2. Bateman, 3. Bateman
4th choice Front row
1. Marler, 2. Hartley, 3. Williams

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Currently I think George shades LCD, however LCD is showing some very good form fit Chiefs.

Really hope Tommy Taylor puts a string of games together and pushes on over the end of this season. I would want him given time around the England squad in the summer as he his quality on his day also.

It's quite obvious that George, Mako, Itoje, Lawes, Joseph and possibly even Watson all look jaded after the Lions.

I'd leave all of these guys out of the summer tour, but Nowell/Sinckler/Te'o who have had been injured/banned, could still tour.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm hoping Eddie rests all the lions players in the summer last chance for them to get some rest pre-RWC.

Speaking of Hookers I feel Singleton should be given some game time before the World cup.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I'd take a reasonably large squad to SA, 3 tests versus some big chaps can take its toll.

Lancaster took 42 out there (23 forwards + 19 backs) but I've put 38 in.

Probably go;
LH - Marler/Genge/Hepburn
HK - Hartley/LCD/Taylor or Singleton (Taylor if fit for me)
TH - Williams/Sinckler/Collier

LK - Launchbury/Isiekwe/Ewels/Green/Hill
BR - Robshaw/Underhill/B.Curry/Simmonds/Willis
Hughes/Mercer

SH - Care/Robson/Vellacott
FH - Ford/Lozowski/Smith
CT - Te'o/Slade/Tuilagi/Trinder
WG - May/Solomona/Cokanasiga/Rokoduguni
FB - Brown/Woodward


Youngs misses out as recovering from injury, but could feature for sure.

Marler, Hartley, Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Ford, Brown provide the experienced spine of the squad.

The rest are a mixture of in form players and those with potential who could benefit from the experience.

I'd also think about Nowell, B Youngs and possibly Haskell. They've all had lengthy injury lay outs this year so could feature, I'd prefer to see others there instead of the Hask though.

 

[curtbob7]

So based on giving the Lions players rest the 32+ man squad for South Africa then..

Hartley, Cowan-Dickie, Taylor
Williams, Sinckler, Hill
Genge, Marler, Hepburn
Launchbury, Isiekwe, Ewels, Spencer?
Robshaw, Underhill, Simmonds, Hughes, Armand, Ewers (Mercer against SA, id be scared for his life)
Youngs may well sit it out due to injury and also the same reason as sitting Lions tour out so as much as id like to see Robson go lets face it it will be Wigglesworth and Care. Vellacot?
Ford, Lozowski, Smith
Slade, Francis, Manu? Hill? Trinder looks decent.
May, Solomona, Cokanasiga, Brown...to be fair Haley may've actually featured on this tour?... Possibly Woodward?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Speaking of Hookers I feel Singleton should be given some game time before the World cup.

Nah.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Nah.

Yeah strange call that. Hartley, George, LCD, Dunn and Taylor all ahead of him. Wouldn't be rushing to get caps into our 6th choice when 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th have 1 start between them.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Yeah strange call that. Hartley, George, LCD, Dunn and Taylor all ahead of him. Wouldn't be rushing to get caps into our 6th choice when 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th have 1 start between them.

I rate Singleton over Dunn, think he's underrated.

Taylor is still coming back from injury and hasn't had any notable gametime for quite a while, worry that he will either be crocked or not match fit.

George needs the summer off desperately.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

George already has basically every international period off already

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah strange call that. Hartley, George, LCD, Dunn and Taylor all ahead of him. Wouldn't be rushing to get caps into our 6th choice when 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th have 1 start between them.

Dunn shouldn't be ahead of him and taylor has done fek all so far.
No more strange than some other Eddie Jones calls.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Just watched the Bath v Quins highlights; what a tackle from Zach Mercer. Having the awareness to not just tackle Smith straight away but to get beside him and get him into touch. Fantastic young player. Don't really see where he's going to fit in with England but fantastic nonetheless.

 

[curtbob7]

Just watched the Bath v Quins highlights; what a tackle from Zach Mercer. Having the awareness to not just tackle Smith straight away but to get beside him and get him into touch. Fantastic young player. Don't really see where he's going to fit in with England but fantastic nonetheless.

Guy needs feeding IMO.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Mercer is a lot stronger and tougher than his frame portrays, he's also an unbelievable athlete.

In Willis, Mercer, Simmonds and the Curry Brothers you have five fantastic athletes with very good footballing ability and intelligent rugby brains. Almost Southern Hemisphere like in how they play.

Finding space for them in a back row that already included Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes and Billy V will be tough. Although Robshaw will possibly retire post Japan 2019 and all 3 of the other are often plighted with injury.

I'd be intrigued to see how well they all come along, they could all become opensides who are skilled at the breakdown but each with their own point of difference.

Simmonds - Explosive broken field runner
Willis - Breaks tackles in the tight and big hitter
Mercer - One of the biggest engines and soft hands
The Curry Bros - Dominant hitters, fantastic footballers.

Worth noticing their physical sizes too.

Simmonds - 6 foot - 103kg - 23 y/o

Willis - 6 foot 3 - 107kg - 21 y/o

Mercer - 6 foot 3 - 105kg - 20 y/o

T Curry - 6 foot 1 - 102kg - 19 y/o

B Curry - 6 foot 2 - 102kg - 19 y/o

I'd argue that Mercer will also fill out a little and I'd even question those weights of the Curry brothers who since the beginning of these season have already filled out substantially.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Mercer is a lot stronger and tougher than his frame portrays, he's also an unbelievable athlete.

In Willis, Mercer, Simmonds and the Curry Brothers you have five fantastic athletes with very good footballing ability and intelligent rugby brains. Almost Southern Hemisphere like in how they play.

Finding space for them in a back row that already included Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes and Billy V will be tough. Although Robshaw will possibly retire post Japan 2019 and all 3 of the other are often plighted with injury.

I'd be intrigued to see how well they all come along, they could all become opensides who are skilled at the breakdown but each with their own point of difference.

Simmonds - Explosive broken field runner
Willis - Breaks tackles in the tight and big hitter
Mercer - One of the biggest engines and soft hands
The Curry Bros - Dominant hitters, fantastic footballers.

Worth noticing their physical sizes too.

Simmonds - 6 foot - 103kg - 23 y/o

Willis - 6 foot 3 - 107kg - 21 y/o

Mercer - 6 foot 3 - 105kg - 20 y/o

T Curry - 6 foot 1 - 102kg - 19 y/o

B Curry - 6 foot 2 - 102kg - 19 y/o

I'd argue that Mercer will also fill out a little and I'd even question those weights of the Curry brothers who since the beginning of these season have already filled out substantially.

Wngland site has Mecer as 102KG

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Wngland site has Mecer as 102KG

Went off the Bath player profile!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah, 105kg for Mercer seems like a lie to me. Arms and legs look skinnier than most backs'. Wouldn't be hugely surprised if he's on the wrong side of 100kg.