[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Which Tyler]

Yep. I suspect Eddie is more inclined to look for a reaction from the same 23 rather than make changes.

It won't be popular, but I'd much rather see Robshaw back at 6 with Haskell at 7. At least we know that combination works. I'd start Hughes with Simmonds on the bench for impact.

It rather that than 3 Locks again.
However, I'd start Robshaw at 6, Hughes at 8 and one of Underhill/Simmonds at 7, with either Simmonds or Mercer on the bench (I'd rather a fresh 8 there than shifting Simmonds when Hughes runs out of steam). I'd probably go with Underhill starting and SS benching, as I don't see Mercer making the plane to Japan.

Quite honestly, the only backrow selection that'll actually annoy me now, is putting a lock there

 

[Scotty]

How is there still no 3rd scrum half in training! What if Care hurts his ankle in training. Then what do we do we will have 1 session maybe to bring up to speed a uncapped scrum half and wigglesworth who hasnt been up to much.

Same in terms of hookers. I mean hartley gets injured wouldnt be end of the world i trust george to do a job for 80 if he must and LCD is in form. George is injured would be bad though.

Such depth at lock, does that mean that we dont need any real inform back rowers...itoje, launch, lawes, kruis and ewels. But no space for b curry. Why are we keeping in ewels when we have could have someone like curry who might even get a shot

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

How is there still no 3rd scrum half in training! What if Care hurts his ankle in training. Then what do we do we will have 1 session maybe to bring up to speed a uncapped scrum half and wigglesworth who hasnt been up to much.

Same in terms of hookers. I mean hartley gets injured wouldnt be end of the world i trust george to do a job for 80 if he must and LCD is in form. George is injured would be bad though.

Such depth at lock, does that mean that we dont need any real inform back rowers...itoje, launch, lawes, kruis and ewels. But no space for b curry. Why are we keeping in ewels when we have could have someone like curry who might even get a shot

I'm really not sure. A lot of things I dismissed as quirky during the honeymoon period with Jones are now starting to look very doubtful. Issues like these are so beyond opinion- I don't think anyone on these forums thinks that it's logical to have unblooded (under Jones) 3rd and 4th choice players in key positions like hooker and scrumhalf- that it's just baffling.

The scales aren't quite falling from my eyes, but I am worried.

 

[Mumbles119]

Quick question... I see Lozowski is included in the 33 strong training squad, is this the first time he has been included in the 2018 6N squads? Sorry if I just missed him on the lists.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He was in the initial 34(?) man squad (as seen in the OP) - not been in any of the reduced (29/25) man squads throughout though

In other news Ben Curry blew his knee out yesterday, no word yet on how bad but it didn't look good.

 

[BPM]

I'm really not sure. A lot of things I dismissed as quirky during the honeymoon period with Jones are now starting to look very doubtful. Issues like these are so beyond opinion- I don't think anyone on these forums thinks that it's logical to have unblooded (under Jones) 3rd and 4th choice players in key positions like hooker and scrumhalf- that it's just baffling.

The scales aren't quite falling from my eyes, but I am worried.

Yep - particularly when one of the aims he set out at the very start was to have three players competing for each position. Wigglesworth surely can't be any more than an emergency solution, so the closest he's come to developing a third 9 is giving Maunder 4 minutes in Argentina.

Similarly, he picked a few good flankers to deputise for Robshaw (Armand, Wilson etc.) and then promptly binned them off to play locks at 6.

Illogical and infuriating from a passionate fan's perspective.

In other news Ben Curry blew his knee out yesterday, no word yet on how bad but it didn't look good.

Shame to hear about Ben Curry. I hope it's not too serious.

 

[Mumbles119]

He was in the initial 34(?) man squad (as seen in the OP) - not been in any of the reduced (29/25) man squads throughout though

In other news Ben Curry blew his knee out yesterday, no word yet on how bad but it didn't look good.

Thanks Oly, yes I thought he hadn't been involved as much as last year. I expect he will get cut again, unless we lose a centre.
Gutted to hear about Ben Curry! I was assuming that because he was not involved this 6N campaign, that Eddie had him on the list for summer tour like last year. Hope his knee can recover in time for summer if that is indeed the case.

 

[Scotty]

LCD had yet another stormer...but yeh hartley is a leader in the team as he proved against scotland so obvioysly ge deserves to start.

George>LCD>Hartley IMO

Tbh hartley is borderline top hooker at saints, and LCD has 97% lineout success rate this season.

Simmonds had a good game off the bench too, great workrate in defence too.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

LCD had yet another stormer...but yeh hartley is a leader in the team as he proved against scotland so obvioysly ge deserves to start.

George>LCD>Hartley IMO

Tbh hartley is borderline top hooker at saints, and LCD has 97% lineout success rate this season.

Simmonds had a good game off the bench too, great workrate in defence too.

In recent times I'd go so far as to say LCD over George; he has had a phenomenal season. A real forward's forward, physical, powerful, smashes rucks, wins turnovers, as you said very rarely disappoints at lineout time. For me George lacks all of that; great skillset and clearly a quality player but this English pack needs brutes in the tight 5 and a brute Jamie George is not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Play him at 6 then,
George is way better at actually being a hooker

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Play him at 6 then,
George is way better at actually being a hooker

How so? This season LCD's darts have been better. His scrums have been more successful. He's got a real tight 5's skillset rather than being a wannabe fly half masquerading as a hooker (I jest). I'd have said exactly the opposite; LCD's the better hooker but George is arguably the better all-round player.

 

[anderton46]

I really like how Jones picks quite a lot on form. However given England have such a huge pool of talent maybe it makes it hard for the international team to get a solid base and build consistency?

Either way I think Jones will come good for the World Cup. Sadly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How so? This season LCD's darts have been better. His scrums have been more successful. He's got a real tight 5's skillset rather than being a wannabe fly half masquerading as a hooker (I jest). I'd have said exactly the opposite; LCD's the better hooker but George is arguably the better all-round player.

George's darts and hooking are both better.
Maybe LCD is doing better so far this season but one swallow doesn't make a summer, so I'll need more evidence than a couple of games of good darts - even Tom Youngs has that on his record.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I really like how Jones picks quite a lot on form. However given England have such a huge pool of talent maybe it makes it hard for the international team to get a solid base and build consistency?

Either way I think Jones will come good for the World Cup. Sadly.

I actually think the opposite; there's a few players in the team currently who are playing nowhere near as well as we know they can- Itoje for example- with able deputies who could use the experience. Taking the back row, Jones has played Robshaw, Hughes, Simmonds, Lawes and Underhill there so far. Compare that to the group available and it's criminal. I'm not advocating complete upheaval, but an All Blacks style cycle of rest, bench and starts both to introduce new players and keep the established ones fresh would be very welcome.

The current team is extremely consistent- it's essentially the same as that which finished the 2016 series to Australia, minus a few injuries and a couple of changes.

 

[Scotty]

In recent times I'd go so far as to say LCD over George; he has had a phenomenal season. A real forward's forward, physical, powerful, smashes rucks, wins turnovers, as you said very rarely disappoints at lineout time. For me George lacks all of that; great skillset and clearly a quality player but this English pack needs brutes in the tight 5 and a brute Jamie George is not.

LCD over george im not sure, but on par id agree.

But whats best for england, George should be first choice (pains me to say as a Chiefs fan) he is solid, a great carrier, great darts and all round good first choice. LCD would be a much better impact player, his aggression and carrying would be what england need to change a game. International is a step up but he needs a shot.

One thing that worries me, people are saying they think EJ will give the likes of B curry a shot in the summer. Will he also give a shot to a young scrumhalf and watson at FB and LCD at hooker. Cant see him making that many changes.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

LCD over george im not sure, but on par id agree.

But whats best for england, George should be first choice (pains me to say as a Chiefs fan) he is solid, a great carrier, great darts and all round good first choice. LCD would be a much better impact player, his aggression and carrying would be what england need to change a game. International is a step up but he needs a shot.

One thing that worries me, people are saying they think EJ will give the likes of B curry a shot in the summer. Will he also give a shot to a young scrumhalf and watson at FB and LCD at hooker. Cant see him making that many changes.

Agree with this; although my personal opinion is that LCD is a slightly better player than George I would still keep LCD on the bench for impact, similarly to how I believe Sinckler is better than both Cole and Williams but would still start either of them over him because of the impact that Sinckler brings.

 

[MarkyH]

Dream XV time then, with all this talk and still 5 days till match-day. Enough experience in this team, despite omitting the more regular names. No reason why we couldn't field something similar in SA

1. Mako
2. George
3. Williams
4. Launchbury
5. Itoje
6. Underhill
7. Curry
8. Billy

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Watson

Genge
LCD
Sincklar
Lawes
Simmonds
Robson
Tuilagi
Nowell

Proper players in their proper positions (apart from May, who will be on the right). Good at the set piece, should be excellent in the loose and much better that what we've seen at the breakdown. Bench has better options, and by the summer Tuilagi should've played his way back into the setup.

And the only players missing - Cole, Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Brown. And I'd take Robshaw in the extended squad. We'd hardly create a skills or leadership vacuum by leaving them out?

Anyway, only my thoughts. I best do some work

 

[FLOBALOB]

George's darts and hooking are both better.
Maybe LCD is doing better so far this season but one swallow doesn't make a summer, so I'll need more evidence than a couple of games of good darts - even Tom Youngs has that on his record.

You really do need to get up to speed Olly. "George way better than LCD at being a hooker" Did you actually watch the game yesterday? A stat was shown for throwing LCD 97% , George 95%.
As for one swallow ....etc. Hes been playing like that for the last 2 years every game. Flatman was waxing lyrical about LCD last season before he got injured. Hes been unlucky with injuries recently but if he carries on like he is he could end up being player of the season (would make a change from the backs getting it) and his time will come in the summer.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Like I said: if he keeps it up then great, but his history of poor hooking and throwing will take more to counteract

 

[FLOBALOB]

Like I said: if he keeps it up then great, but his history of poor hooking and throwing will take more to counteract

Dylan Hartley has a "history" of being a moronic thug but it didn't stop him being made England captain.

LCD 's poor throwing history comes from a couple of games years ago,when he was a mere child. Let it go Olly.