[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[RugbyMarvel]

For the sake of actually talking about the squad.

Looks like Sinckler, Simmonds, Ewels and Smith are all on the bench for their respective clubs. Simmonds and Sinckler possibly there to get some game time for potential spots against the French?

Kruis and Iseikwe are both starting for Sarries, but I don't think they'd be in the England 23 anyway.

Otherwise I don't see anyone else who was in or around the squad featuring this weekend.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

For the sake of actually talking about the squad.

Looks like Sinckler, Simmonds, Ewels and Smith are all on the bench for their respective clubs. Simmonds and Sinckler possibly there to get some game time for potential spots against the French?

Kruis and Iseikwe are both starting for Sarries, but I don't think they'd be in the England 23 anyway.

Otherwise I don't see anyone else who was in or around the squad featuring this weekend.

Kingston said a couple of weeks ago that he was gonna start benching smith so he doesnt get tired out, so don't read too much into that. If we are being honest, The only likley changes I can see are Wiggs for care, Nowell for may and possibly JJ for Teo

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I think Underhill slots into that backrow for Lawes, who goes to the bench.

Robshaw switches to 6, Simmonds covers back row from bench.

Against France, but I doubt Ireland, Te'o may come in. Basteraud is a unit so we might be tempted to get Te'o to front up to him. Personally though, JJ could make Basteraud look silly if he gets back to actually using his footwork and acceleration and not trying to break outside.

Nowell could well come in. Topped a lot of stats in his sub appearance, and is such a hard worker. Remember Paris 2016 though? Despite the win, Nowell got done on the outside twice which both led to scores.

 

[Scotty]

Simmonds and sinkler back in for france i hope. :

Everyone saying ben curry for 7 and i agree after seeing more of him recently but he has had no experience woth england so out of the equation for this 6N

Question is do we have
Robshaw
Underhill
Hughes

Simmonds

Or

Robshaw
Simmonds
Hughes

Underhill

One is a more attacking starting back row and the other is a finishing back row, would like to see hughes play the 80 and take off robshaw for simmonds. I think start simmonds though, he proved he can do the full 80, he has one hell of a work rate amd still was able to tear the italian deffence to shreads late in the game. No point leaving a weapon like simmonds on the bench.


I put robshaw in starting on both because i cant see him being dropped and offers zero from the bench. Would actually rather hask on the bench

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Simmonds and sinkler back in for france i hope. :

Everyone saying ben curry for 7 and i agree after seeing more of him recently but he has had no experience woth england so out of the equation for this 6N

Question is do we have
Robshaw
Underhill
Hughes

Simmonds

Or

Robshaw
Simmonds
Hughes

Underhill

One is a more attacking starting back row and the other is a finishing back row, would like to see hughes play the 80 and take off robshaw for simmonds. I think start simmonds though, he proved he can do the full 80, he has one hell of a work rate amd still was able to tear the italian deffence to shreads late in the game. No point leaving a weapon like simmonds on the bench.


I put robshaw in starting on both because i cant see him being dropped and offers zero from the bench. Would actually rather hask on the bench

Ben Curry toured with England to Argentina and was set to play in the first test until injury ruled him out. Tom Curry took his place and had a stormer.

I was actually rethinking my back row. If Simmonds is fit and we are working off the original squad, the I'd potentially like to see a Robshaw/Underhill/Simmonds backrow starting with Hughes on the bench, coming in for Underhill or Robshaw at 50/60.

Hughes looked so out of shape, I'd be wary about him being up to scratch for next weekend. Give him a good 30.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Nowell could well come in. Topped a lot of stats in his sub appearance, and is such a hard worker. Remember Paris 2016 though? Despite the win, Nowell got done on the outside twice which both led to scores.

A lot of the flak Nowell got that game wasn't deserved, infact he did very well. England's defence was extremely narrow and every single time the French ran down his wing, he was facing a 2 or even 3 on 1 situation. The fact he stopped the French scoring more tries was pretty impressive, he was left out to dry by the rest of the English defence, who made no attempt at all to drift across. It's easier to beat someone on the outside when the player can't fully commit to you because he has to be wary of the pass.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Fair enough, I recalled one occasion where I thought Huget stood Nowell up, then gassed him. I could definitely be wrong though!

I'd like to see Nowell in the side for the sheer work rate and impetus he brings. We aren't getting May into the game enough for his pace to come to the fore anyway.

 

[TheSaffycen]

In fairness Huget is quite a player, and you can't do much about raw pace, even if you are in a good position. Though Huget isn't that quick so my point is invalid....

On the team for France
Marler - I know dropping Vunipola for the start seems weird but we have to have a strong set piece. And he also brings that bit of aggression.
Hartley- I don't want him there personally but you can't have too many changes.
Cole- I don't know if Williams can deal with Slimani, hopefully Cole does and we don't give away scrum penalties. You really don't want the French pack marching towards the line because you keep giving away penalties.
Launchbury- Best lock atm.
Itoje- Looks slightly burnt out but I want to see how he comes back from the Scotland game. And make Vaahaminha terrified with his giant clap.
Robshaw- Think he's the best 6 we have.
Underhill- He's needed badly, makes big hits and can ruck. The French are normally poor on the floor so we need to make an impact there.
Hughes- Need a carrier, which this starting pack needs really.
Wigglesworth- Don't Really want Care to start, don't want ww.
Ford- His kicking is needed. I do fear Basteraud running at him but we just need to protect him.
May- his pace can help against the French, and his tackling was good against Scotland.
Farrell- can't drop him
Teo- Think he's able to put holes in the defence and he's a carrier
Nowell- Hard carrier, powerful runner, support lines off teo as well.
Brown- Id prefer Watson or Daly but I don't know who'd be on the bench if Brown wasn't starting. Who else is training with us?
George
Vunipola
Sinkler
Lawes
Simmonds
Care
JJ
Watson

 

[RugbyMarvel]

In fairness Huget is quite a player, and you can't do much about raw pace, even if you are in a good position. Though Huget isn't that quick so my point is invalid....

On the team for France
Marler - I know dropping Vunipola for the start seems weird but we have to have a strong set piece. And he also brings that bit of aggression.
Hartley- I don't want him there personally but you can't have too many changes.
Cole- I don't know if Williams can deal with Slimani, hopefully Cole does and we don't give away scrum penalties. You really don't want the French pack marching towards the line because you keep giving away penalties.
Launchbury- Best lock atm.
Itoje- Looks slightly burnt out but I want to see how he comes back from the Scotland game. And make Vaahaminha terrified with his giant clap.
Robshaw- Think he's the best 6 we have.
Underhill- He's needed badly, makes big hits and can ruck. The French are normally poor on the floor so we need to make an impact there.
Hughes- Need a carrier, which this starting pack needs really.
Wigglesworth- Don't Really want Care to start, don't want ww.
Ford- His kicking is needed. I do fear Basteraud running at him but we just need to protect him.
May- his pace can help against the French, and his tackling was good against Scotland.
Farrell- can't drop him
Teo- Think he's able to put holes in the defence and he's a carrier
Nowell- Hard carrier, powerful runner, support lines off teo as well.
Brown- Id prefer Watson or Daly but I don't know who'd be on the bench if Brown wasn't starting. Who else is training with us?
George
Vunipola
Sinkler
Lawes
Simmonds
Care
JJ
Watson

Slimani would be at tighthead wouldn't he, so against Mako or Marler? I know he can play both sides but Poirot has been the loosehead I thought.

I'd want Williams having a shot, Sinckler to bench. Sick of how little Cole is doing, but he could just be burnt out...

 

[TheSaffycen]

I may well be wrong! If that's the case then i think we may be screwed either way!

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I don't think we should pick our front row based on the French front row. The Scots weren't that bad in the scrum against the French so it's not the biggest focus surely.

Marler/Hartley/Cole can't be the front row in my opinion, especially if no other ball carriers are introduced to the pack. The lack of dynamism would be detrimental

 

[Scotty]

In fairness Huget is quite a player, and you can't do much about raw pace, even if you are in a good position. Though Huget isn't that quick so my point is invalid....

On the team for France
Marler - I know dropping Vunipola for the start seems weird but we have to have a strong set piece. And he also brings that bit of aggression.
Hartley- I don't want him there personally but you can't have too many changes.
Cole- I don't know if Williams can deal with Slimani, hopefully Cole does and we don't give away scrum penalties. You really don't want the French pack marching towards the line because you keep giving away penalties.
Launchbury- Best lock atm.
Itoje- Looks slightly burnt out but I want to see how he comes back from the Scotland game. And make Vaahaminha terrified with his giant clap.
Robshaw- Think he's the best 6 we have.
Underhill- He's needed badly, makes big hits and can ruck. The French are normally poor on the floor so we need to make an impact there.
Hughes- Need a carrier, which this starting pack needs really.
Wigglesworth- Don't Really want Care to start, don't want ww.
Ford- His kicking is needed. I do fear Basteraud running at him but we just need to protect him.
May- his pace can help against the French, and his tackling was good against Scotland.
Farrell- can't drop him
Teo- Think he's able to put holes in the defence and he's a carrier
Nowell- Hard carrier, powerful runner, support lines off teo as well.
Brown- Id prefer Watson or Daly but I don't know who'd be on the bench if Brown wasn't starting. Who else is training with us?
George
Vunipola
Sinkler
Lawes
Simmonds
Care
JJ
Watson

Tbh i like your team except i wouldnt have may in id have watson and nowell on the wings, daly in 23, happy to see simmonds start tbh and play 80 nd for god sake pick williams and chin off cole. He can just come back for the easy games in the RWC...maybe or injuries. But good impact from the bence.

Tbh that is a very strong bench of finishers, bring on the whole bench at 50 min to change the game up the carrying and give us the edge in attack.

 

[higgik]

The Saffycen, I agree with most of your changes, but I am concerned at the lack of close quarter power in the pack.
For that reason I would move Itoje to 6 and have Lawes at 5, on the thinking that Lawes has more power and giving Itoje more freedom he can do more damage further out with more running space, but I also know Robshaw would not be dropped, so the call is probably not going to happen.
If I was picking the team
1. Marler (Mako does need some form of rest and his decision making looked suspect because of it, when firing he has a great ability to know when to take into contact and when to pass to backs, also Marler brings a level of aggression missing last match)
2. Hartley (needs to stop going to the calming sessions he has been to lately, lost too much of his nastiness, and that controlled aggression was the focal point of his rallying the troops, he either starts or is dropped completely as he is not a finisher)
3. Williams (Cole looks washed up and we need to see the younger props developing)
4. Launchbury (nailed on atm)
5. Lawes (needs to be told to just do HIS job and not try anything else, keep it simple, like a silent assassin, I always think he has his good games when he just gets on with his job and doesn't let the emotion get to him)
6. Itoje (needs to find some form though)
7. Underhill (scrapper used to annoy the French and get them riled, giving up needles penalties)
8. Hughes (will hopefully be more on the pace, but needed for ball carrying)
9. Wigglesworth (got to start as better at bossing forwards and kicking game to stretch the French and tire them, Care's kicking game is too loose and would give too many opportunities to counter)
10. Farrell (difficult call as Ford is playing well, but I don't think his kicking game is good enough atm)
11. Nowell (work rate will help out forwards)
12. Te'o (focus point for Nowell, JJ and Watson to run lines off)
13. Joseph (another under severe scrutiny as he seems to be trying too hard to find the magic effort, rather than fo using on the process and it coming)
14. Watson
15. Brown (his communication is still superior to the others and this currently outweighs the negatives of his speed and passing)

16. George (will be able to speed the game up when the French are tiring)
17. Mako (using him for impact will change his attitude as well and be able to give full whack for 20-30 minutes)
18. Sinker (again his ability to speed up the game will benefit, also he would be the one to keep the aggression levels up when Hartley leaves)
19. Haskell (2nd row not neded with 3 on pitch and Hughes capable of playing there, Haskell brings that aggression and tenacity)
20. Simmonds (if fit, looks the making of a great player)
21. Care (has best eye in England for finding the gaps when they appear in last quarter)
22. Ford (game changer, if needed)
23. Daly (chance to get up to international speed again, covers all the outside back roles as well as OC)

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I don't think England will put Faz to 10 now, it would be a huge change to their attacking systems.

The 3 lock tactic has surely been outed now as nothing more than a stop gap whilst England have worked out what they actually want from their back row.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't think England will put Faz to 10 now, it would be a huge change to their attacking systems.

The 3 lock tactic has surely been outed now as nothing more than a stop gap whilst England have worked out what they actually want from their back row.

The thing with the 3 lock tactic is that I think that it actually could work. The problem is that to have a lock at 6, you need to have a real 7 at 7, and we've been using Robshaw. With someone like a Curry or Simmonds at 7 and a fit 8 I think that it would work. Still wouldn't be my preferred choice, I'd like 6. Underhill 7. Curry/Simmonds 8. Vunipola, but I wouldn't rule out a lock at 6 until it's been given a fair shot.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Maybe slotting a

The thing with the 3 lock tactic is that I think that it actually could work. The problem is that to have a lock at 6, you need to have a real 7 at 7, and we've been using Robshaw. With someone like a Curry or Simmonds at 7 and a fit 8 I think that it would work. Still wouldn't be my preferred choice, I'd like 6. Underhill 7. Curry/Simmonds 8. Vunipola, but I wouldn't rule out a lock at 6 until it's been given a fair shot.

Good point, balance has been all off.

I really hope that Ben Curry isn't ignored for the Summer

 

[BPM]

Same here. Ben Curry has had a brilliant second season off the back of a really good debut season. Not many players do that.

The only question mark over both Currys is around their ability to clear out effectively which is a big thing for EJ. They're both physical players so I don't doubt their capability, but given that Sale have Ross and Strauss to do that, I think it's difficult for them to press their case.

I think the balance of the back row needs to be right to get the best out of either of the Currys. With Robshaw at 6 and Billy at 8, it would work well enough, but the lineout would suffer. One of the locks at 6 could work, but I'm always dubious about that and I wouldn't want to drop Robshaw (from the blindside) without more confidence that the lineout plus wouldn't be negated by an ineffectual breakdown.

I'm really curious to see what Brad Shields is like. I've not seen too much of him, but I believe he's a hard carrying, hard working 6/8 who is also good in the lineout. That sounds like exactly what we need in terms of offering a better balance and less reliance on the 8 as a carrier.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

33 man England squad announced to train at Pennyhill Park in preparation for France.

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)*, Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Marcus Smith (Harlequins)*, Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)


No surprises there. Pretty much the original squad.

 

[BPM]

Yep. I suspect Eddie is more inclined to look for a reaction from the same 23 rather than make changes.

It won't be popular, but I'd much rather see Robshaw back at 6 with Haskell at 7. At least we know that combination works. I'd start Hughes with Simmonds on the bench for impact.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Yep. I suspect Eddie is more inclined to look for a reaction from the same 23 rather than make changes.

It won't be popular, but I'd much rather see Robshaw back at 6 with Haskell at 7. At least we know that combination works. I'd start Hughes with Simmonds on the bench for impact.

I think Underhill will do what Haskell can do plus more, Haskell hasn't shown any form realistically since that toe injury.