[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (15/09/2018)

[Steeler]

I'm with you with Jordie still being too much of a rookie and out of his depth...
I like the idea of Mounga starting at 10 after back to back SR ***les with the Crusaders he is the form 10...
Add his Crusty centres teammates Crotty and Goodhue or SBW and Goodhue....Beaudy at fullback where he's got space to manoevre ...with Ben Smith - effectively two fullbacks and Iaone on the wing...
M'Kenzie on the bench can cover 10 or 15..-gotta live the enegy he brings
...Also a much stronger team with Frizzel and Retallika as well... am not a big fan of Perenara though - Aaron Smith is one of the leaders so should'nt be dragged like on the weekend when the game is tight...

Perenara's compsure came under question as well, needed to keep a level head and not fire balls at the forwards, made the wrong pass countless times

Richie should've been brought in last season, might be too little to late to get him really ready for the RWC? dunno, think it's important we play b.barrett now though and get his kicking sorted and combination at 10-12 sorted

another reality is we miss Cruden quite a bit, dependable and composed, always felt pretty confident with him on the park that the right decision would be made and he's one of the best first 5's in the world playing under pressure and little space, not the best place kicker in the world either, but great under pressure

 

[Steeler]

I'm with you with Jordie still being too much of a rookie and out of his depth...
I like the idea of Mounga starting at 10 after back to back SR ***les with the Crusaders he is the form 10...
Add his Crusty centres teammates Crotty and Goodhue or SBW and Goodhue....Beaudy at fullback where he's got space to manoevre ...with Ben Smith - effectively two fullbacks and Iaone on the wing...
M'Kenzie on the bench can cover 10 or 15..-gotta live the enegy he brings
...Also a much stronger team with Frizzel and Retallika as well... am not a big fan of Perenara though - Aaron Smith is one of the leaders so should'nt be dragged like on the weekend when the game is tight...

Perenara's compsure came under question as well, needed to keep a level head and not fire balls at the forwards, made the wrong pass countless times, not the first time in the last 2 years either

Richie should've been brought in last season, might be too little to late to get him really ready for the RWC? dunno, think it's important we play b.barrett now though and get his kicking sorted and combination at 10-12 sorted

another reality is we miss Cruden quite a bit, dependable and composed, always felt pretty confident with him on the park that the right decision would be made and he's one of the best first 5's in the world playing under pressure and little space, not the best place kicker in the world either, but great under pressure

 

[bazwaz]

But BB doesn't until he learns in a tight game to manage the score board when it gets tight and go for DG when it matters. Can't seem to find any footage of him going for one for the ABs. He was on the bench for the two RWC matches, so surely must have crossed his mind on Saturday.

Beaudy left his kicking boots at home i think...More of a fullback than a 10 if you ask me...that's where he started out in the U20s for NZ at fullback and where he should go back to..

 

[Steeler]

Beaudy left his kicking boots at home i think...More of a fullback than a 10 if you ask me...that's where he started out in the U20s for NZ at fullback and where he should go back to..

actually one of the problems of having too much world class depth at fullback, McKenzie, B.Smith, B.Barrett

had to somehow get Barrett in the starting XV in 2016 or he would leave NZ, so he came in at 10 in place of Cruden/Carter

now we can't focus on having a natural specialist 10 - I still think Barrett is a top 10, but defintely was better at FB

 

[bazwaz]

Perenara's compsure came under question as well, needed to keep a level head and not fire balls at the forwards, made the wrong pass countless times, not the first time in the last 2 years either

Richie should've been brought in last season, might be too little to late to get him really ready for the RWC? dunno, think it's important we play b.barrett now though and get his kicking sorted and combination at 10-12 sorted

another reality is we miss Cruden quite a bit, dependable and composed, always felt pretty confident with him on the park that the right decision would be made and he's one of the best first 5's in the world playing under pressure and little space, not the best place kicker in the world either, but great under pressure

Mate was a tragedy that Cruden left with his 100% winning record of games he started for the ABs at 10.....But moving forward Mounga needs to get a few more games under his belt in preparation for next years RWC...will be interesting who starts at 10 next...Argentina will be strong at home as will SA so some challenging games ahead...

 

[bazwaz]

actually one of the problems of having too much world class depth at fullback, McKenzie, B.Smith, B.Barrett

had to somehow get Barrett in the starting XV in 2016 or he would leave NZ, so he came in at 10 in place of Cruden/Carter

now we can't focus on having a natural specialist 10 - I still think Barrett is a top 10, but defintely was better at FB

Makes you wonder why Hansen keeps picking Jordie when we have so many quality fullbacks...Even Mounga played fullback for Canterbury so add him to the list of players that are versitile in more than one position...

 

[George Ford]

actually one of the problems of having too much world class depth at fullback, McKenzie, B.Smith, B.Barrett

had to somehow get Barrett in the starting XV in 2016 or he would leave NZ, so he came in at 10 in place of Cruden/Carter

now we can't focus on having a natural specialist 10 - I still think Barrett is a top 10, but defintely was better at FB

Gents, I find this a bit exaggeration to call for Barrett's head at 10. This guy won the last 2 IRB World Player of The Year Awards on the back of many magnificent performances showcasing his talent at first-five. Do you guys even realise how this over-reaction is coming off

 

[bazwaz]

Gents, I find this a bit exaggeration to call for Barrett's head at 10. This guy won the last 2 IRB World Player of The Year Awards on the back of many magnificent performances showcasing his talent at first-five. Do you guys even realise how this over-reaction is coming off

Not at all you misundertanding the proposition i think,,Beauden Barret is the best fullback in world rugby...There is no better counter defender or counter attacker in the game All we are advocating is for him to revert back to where he started at fullback.

 

[George Ford]

Not at all you misundertanding the proposition i think,,Beauden Barret is the best fullback in world rugby...There is no better counter defender or counter attacker in the game All we are advocating is for him to revert back to where he started at fullback.

Right, and who is the best 10 in the world right now?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Right, and who is the best 10 in the world right now?

Well... On the topic of dropping a goal...

 

[bazwaz]

I don't think there is any single player but many are saying Sanchez is right up there with the best and will be dangerous for the ABs next....Mo'unga and McKenzie are right up there as well...not sure about up north theres Farrel and Sexton...not saying Barret is'nt a good 10 either - just saying that he is a better fullback than flyhalf IMHO

 

[George Ford]

Well... On the topic of dropping a goal...

`
Epic - was that this year? Talk about BMT.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

probably just can't do them, only logical explanation

Pull the other one. World Rugby player of the year can't do drop goals? Well if he can't he better get on the practise field as there'll be no excuses if ABs are in a similar position next year in a RWC knock out match.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think what should worry NZ is that they don't currently have the best back three or centre pairing in world rugby right now when they have the talent to have them. I think Scotland's and Argentina's back threes are better right now and it'd be hard to pass up Henshaw and Ringrose and the partnership and understanding they've built for club and country over the confusion NZ are facing choosing between SBW, ALB, Crotty and Goodhue. (FWIW the best 12 of the lot is SBW and best 13 is Ringrose imo)

Its not really that hard a fix, Hansen needs to stop experimenting in midfield and build an understanding between his 12 and 13 and with the players inside and, particularly, outside them they will become more effective than their Irish counterparts are for Ireland. The back three would be fixed by getting B Smith at 15, I think Jordie is getting very far on name and brand alone, he is too slow for NZ's back three in my opinion and I don't think he's warranted the hype he's received at any point his career going back to, and including, his u20 year.

Barrett at 10 can be exploited but its much less likely if you have a midfield and back three who will take advantage of virtually any opportunity given to them.

`
Epic - was that this year? Talk about BMT.

Yep, Round 1 of the 6 nations. I was waiting for any tenuous excuse to post it in here!!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yep, Round 1 of the 6 nations. I was waiting for any tenuous excuse to post it in here!!

Any old excuse.

 

[Nubiwan]

I'd always prefer we go for the try rather than the DG. If you screw up your one chance at banging the droppie over, that's it, you're done, game over.
If you don't score a try in one phase of play, you've got a 95% (roughly) chance of getting the pill back, and you can try again.

Hence, for a drop goal to be the better option, you need to be confident of getting that ball between the sticks 19 out of the 20 times you try it, as well as being fairly confident you won't be able to get across the chalk in the next 20 phases.

The All Blacks have won numerous games over the years by hanging onto the ball, with unshakeable belief that they will eventually be able to dot down. Its worked so often that I'd say its a safer option than the drop goal from their perspective.

The most recent drop goal that ended up deciding the match was Carter's 46th minute effort against SA in RWC 15 semi. It was 35 metres out, and under knock on advantage. It was also not the last points scored in the match.

It just does not sit right with us to leave the result of a game to a play that could so easily go wrong.

That's just what I was saying, in the end.

You had the ball in front of the posts most of the time. Not on some odd wide angle. Right in front, under the posts. I was literally laughing at the lack of even consideration. Why not just put DMAC or anyone 10 - 15 yards back as a decoy to unsettle or draw in defenders and then sling it wide? Fact is, everyone knows you fellas won't kick it, so it's obvious what you will do. Doesn't make it any easier to defend that attack, but it takes the drop out of consideration as no one is even standing in the pocket. It's a laugh.

In the end it showed a little AB arrogance against a side that had defended boldly, and you fellas have taken it on the chin.

 

[Steeler]

Pull the other one. World Rugby player of the year can't do drop goals? Well if he can't he better get on the practise field as there'll be no excuses if ABs are in a similar position next year in a RWC knock out match.

well he's yet to prove us overwise, he can't placekick, so I wouldn't be surprised?



for the other comments about calling for his head - no way, not even sure how you arrived there

we are just acknowledging his natural position and what his game lacks and unfortunately what his game lacks is what you need in a tight game - place kicking and tactical kicking under pressure

 

[rN_X]

I think the Springboks should replace that centre pair with Rohan Janse van Rensburg @ 12 and Francios Venter @ 13 we can be much more lethal with them

 

[Steeler]

Its not really that hard a fix, Hansen needs to stop experimenting in midfield and build an understanding between his 12 and 13

it was pretty inexcusale of shag to not play Crotty and Goodhue together vs South Africa, no idea why he didn't, the Crusaders pairing and a chance for them to play together in the black jersey for the first time, the fact Goodhue wasn't even on the teamsheet until SBW pulled out is concering, I don't think he rated them together for the Crusaders which is odd

 

[Ospervat]

...there have been some great exponents of the dropkick in the past, Hugo Porta and Naas Botha come to mind but it's not used much in NZ....DC would be an exception and maybe they will start practising for one now going by what Hansen was saying but generally not a big part of the NZ game..

Not often remembered Jannie de Beer v England RWC 99. 5 drop goals.