[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (15/09/2018)

[mania]

Hahaha . Yup toats apples to me
Loved sign off
"Still. They'd better not lose next time."

 

[mania]

This is similar to how I felt when bil lions drew the series. K we didn't win but something good happened. but this was far more entertaining. I enjoyed watching boks stand up and not take ****. Like the boks i know and expect. Wish they'd do that vs everyone. But always knew boks had it in them. Honoured enemy.

 

[Immenso]

I enjoyed that match.

From an NZ positive, I'd expect there's plenty to learn for the AB leadership from that. Plenty.

As with the guy above, the thing I'm annoyed about is they didn't even attempt the drop goal. I wanted to know if one of either Beauden or Dmac had the composure to execute that under pressure. Now, I still don't know. Opportunity wasted.

 

[Immenso]

I actually thought the ref was OK while it did feel like we were getting penalized a ton, I don't remember any single pen where I thought, "that's a bad call" after defending forever the lads definitely let discipline slip towards the end.

Yes. There were only 13 penalties in the entire match. 10-3 in favour of NZ (which pretty much reflects the possession stats). Owens just let the boys play.

I really don't care about 'the gate' being at 180 degrees or 120 degrees or somewhere in between, or how going off feet is judged. Owens let that be loose on Saturday. Which is reflected ion the ruck success stats. So be it, as long as its consistent on the night. On this night it's an interpretation that favours the team in possession (NZ for for about 80% of the game).

The standard was set, I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the game rather than getting the protractor out for ruck entry by teams wearing a certain colour.

The week before in the NZ v Arg game. The French ref strongly policed the ruck and the first man was allowed to compete and was protected by the ref's call, and there were plenty of ruck tournover-pentalties (and even a few actual turnovers).. I enjoyed that match (and refereeing approcach) just as much as I enjoyed Owens' intepretations.

Some people just can't seem to enjoy the sport.

 

[Nubiwan]

I'm more than happy to be wrong. The best thing to happen to Union is that the All Blacks lose a game or two. The next game between RSA and NZ will be so much better because of this.

Yes, indeed. I just saw the funny side of it. I'd have suggested a 50 pointer to maybe 20 in return. Before the match, that is. I think we all would.

Your 100 points just asked for it...... Nice one!!!!!

I enjoyed that match.

From an NZ positive, I'd expect there's plenty to learn for the AB leadership from that. Plenty.

As with the guy above, the thing I'm annoyed about is they didn't even attempt the drop goal. I wanted to know if one of either Beauden or Dmac had the composure to execute that under pressure. Now, I still don't know. Opportunity wasted.

Frig, it was a chip shot in front of the uprights. My granny would have converted it. Whats so hard? Then again - Barrett;s kicking has been banjos and barn doors.

I think I posted the same sort of inquiry about 5 years ago during a super rugby match were one NZ side simply refused to take a drop. Pretty sure it was in a playoff match or perhaps even the final. I just think it's ingrained into the NZ psyche that a drop is some how a tarts way to win. Ask Jonny Wilkinson what he thinks about drops, and just about any Englishman.

Yes. There were only 13 penalties in the entire match. 10-3 in favour of NZ (which pretty much reflects the possession stats). Owens just let the boys play.

I really don't care about 'the gate' being at 180 degrees or 120 degrees or somewhere in between, or how going off feet is judged. Owens let that be loose on Saturday. Which is reflected ion the ruck success stats. So be it, as long as its consistent on the night. On this night it's an interpretation that favours the team in possession (NZ for for about 80% of the game).

The standard was set, I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the game rather than getting the protractor out for ruck entry by teams wearing a certain colour.

The week before in the NZ v Arg game. The French ref strongly policed the ruck and the first man was allowed to compete and was protected by the ref's call, and there were plenty of ruck tournover-pentalties (and even a few actual turnovers).. I enjoyed that match (and refereeing approcach) just as much as I enjoyed Owens' intepretations.

Some people just can't seem to enjoy the sport.

Its a discussion forum. I can still enjoy a game but be passionate about what I think is poor officiating.

I think refs generally let the Abs away with a lot and it doesn't come back to haunt them because the Abs and up winning matches by a cricket score. Couple of decisions in the OZ tests were very debatable and event the NZ comms questioned many of these decisions. Same in the SA match.

I'd be very interested to see how often Owen sides with NZ, or the favourite in a match overall. It is my opinion he takes the easy way out. Who would criticize a ref penalizing NZ opposition? Who gets to ref World Cup Finals? I just think Owens loves the sound of his own headmaster voice, and looks after himself. Attention seeker. I have simply never liked Owen because of it.

The scrum on the Bok 5 metre was definitely questionable IMHO. NZ under pressure and clearly caving, and you always see them decisions given to the side dominating the particular scrum. Wheeling? Pfff! All scrums going back start to wheel.

 

[Immenso]

Who would criticize a ref penalizing NZ opposition?

******* everybody, all the ******* time.

 

[Immenso]

The scrum on the Bok 5 metre was definitely questionable IMHO. NZ under pressure and clearly caving, and you always see them decisions given to the side dominating the particular scrum. Wheeling? Pfff! All scrums going back start to wheel.

That scrum was 1 of 2 occasions watching live that I thought NZ got the rub of the green on a decision (the other was the long advantage).

But on replay the outcome was actually correct, even if the decision making to get there was ropey. Boks got the slight shove on but Marx was the (only) one to pop up, thus illegally ending the scrum. It's a strange one as usually the refs do blindly just reward the scrum with the shove on.

Owens had 3 options. Reset, Penalty Boks or Penalty ABs. A penalty ABs was in effect the same a reset as they opted for the scrum again (as it was 15 on 14 at the time, I think).

In, I think, the SR semi-final this year. My team got penalised for exactly that, and I was ******. Crusaders marched the Hurricanes scrum but all Canes pack kept their shape and bind and everything was legal until Cody Taylor popped up and started waving his arms at the ref. Was rewarded with a penalty. I'd like to say well done to Owens for being better than that other ref on that day, but as I say, i think he accidentally got the correct result.

 

[eidde]

Frig, it was a chip shot in front of the uprights. My granny would have converted it. Whats so hard? Then again - Barrett;s kicking has been banjos and barn doors.

I think I posted the same sort of inquiry about 5 years ago during a super rugby match were one NZ side simply refused to take a drop. Pretty sure it was in a playoff match or perhaps even the final. I just think it's ingrained into the NZ psyche that a drop is some how a tarts way to win. Ask Jonny Wilkinson what he thinks about drops, and just about any Englishman.

I'd always prefer we go for the try rather than the DG. If you screw up your one chance at banging the droppie over, that's it, you're done, game over.
If you don't score a try in one phase of play, you've got a 95% (roughly) chance of getting the pill back, and you can try again.

Hence, for a drop goal to be the better option, you need to be confident of getting that ball between the sticks 19 out of the 20 times you try it, as well as being fairly confident you won't be able to get across the chalk in the next 20 phases.

The All Blacks have won numerous games over the years by hanging onto the ball, with unshakeable belief that they will eventually be able to dot down. Its worked so often that I'd say its a safer option than the drop goal from their perspective.

The most recent drop goal that ended up deciding the match was Carter's 46th minute effort against SA in RWC 15 semi. It was 35 metres out, and under knock on advantage. It was also not the last points scored in the match.

It just does not sit right with us to leave the result of a game to a play that could so easily go wrong.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I wasn't upset we lost, not to that performance from the boks, a little embarrassed at the hubris the AB's showed in the last few minutes, they were that sure we'd score a try they didnt go for that drop goal. try are worth more point because they are harder to get...pretty simple

 

[Brigantine]

It just does not sit right with us to leave the result of a game to a play that could so easily go wrong.

That cuts both ways... It's just that with a drop goal, there's no doubt who you should blame if it does go wrong.

It depends on field position. From a set piece right under the posts, a drop goal is the better risk to take. Surely? Unless your kicker is a wimp.

 

[Derpus]

I'd always prefer we go for the try rather than the DG. If you screw up your one chance at banging the droppie over, that's it, you're done, game over.
If you don't score a try in one phase of play, you've got a 95% (roughly) chance of getting the pill back, and you can try again.

Hence, for a drop goal to be the better option, you need to be confident of getting that ball between the sticks 19 out of the 20 times you try it, as well as being fairly confident you won't be able to get across the chalk in the next 20 phases.

The All Blacks have won numerous games over the years by hanging onto the ball, with unshakeable belief that they will eventually be able to dot down. Its worked so often that I'd say its a safer option than the drop goal from their perspective.

The most recent drop goal that ended up deciding the match was Carter's 46th minute effort against SA in RWC 15 semi. It was 35 metres out, and under knock on advantage. It was also not the last points scored in the match.

It just does not sit right with us to leave the result of a game to a play that could so easily go wrong.

If Carter was sitting in the pocket at 10 you would've gone for the drop goal for sure.

It's who you have at 10 that decided the play, not some vague reluctance to rely on it.

Incidentally, if Carter was still your 10 you would not have needed a drop goal to win the game. Barrett gets the plaudits by running four tries in against the worst Wallabies side in the last 30 odd years but he's still a fullback playing 10.

Dmac is the same but not as good.

Edit: final thought. I don't really think this All Blacks side measures up to the previous all time great sides. But, the gap between the ABs and next best is bigger than ever.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Edit: final thought. I don't really think this All Blacks side measures up to the previous all time great sides. But, the gap between the ABs and next best is bigger than ever.

A lot of that has to do with experience and game management, which this current crop don't have yet when games get tight.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Wow what a test match! I agree with Nick Mallett, eating humble pie never tasted so good!

Let me start off with Mr. Owens, and I tend to agree that he was favouring the All Blacks a bit. And I would like @smartcooky to respond to this and tell me if I have this wrong.

• 1st All Blacks try. Lukhanyo Am is being attended to in the background, before the lineout for the AB's are set, ref says to play on, Am not in Position and it's exactly where Jordie Barrett ran to score (off a forward pass). But when we had a lineout 10m out from the AB's tryline, Owens stops the game, as Liam Squire is being attended to, far on the other side of the field, and Owens says to the Boks, "if you go wide, he might be in the way". Why the difference in approach??
• All Blacks 1st try from driving maul was IMO a truck-and-trailer situation. Please have a look at Scott Barrett, the ball carrier is behind him, and there is a moment before the try is scored where Barrett is not bound to the players in front of him.

Now onto the stats:

ON ATTACK

TRIES

New Zealand - 6

South Africa - 5

METRES CARRIED

New Zealand - 624

South Africa - 245

CARRIES

New Zealand - 215

South Africa - 59

DEFENDERS BEATEN

New Zealand - 39

South Africa - 12

PASSES

New Zealand - 257

South Africa - 64

OFFLOADS

New Zealand - 14

South Africa - 3

POSSESSION

New Zealand - 75.3%

South Africa - 24.7%

ON DEFENCE

TACKLES

New Zealand - 61

South Africa - 235

MISSED TACKLES

New Zealand - 12

South Africa - 39


BREAKDOWN

RUCKS WON

New Zealand - 155

South Africa - 41

SET PLAY

SCRUMS WON

New Zealand - 9

South Africa - 6

LINEOUTS WON

New Zealand - 13

South Africa - 7

DISCIPLINE

PENALTIES CONCEDED

New Zealand - 3

South Africa - 10

YELLOW CARDS

New Zealand - 0

South Africa - 1

FINAL SCORE?

New Zealand - 34

South Africa - 36

These stats are just insane, and I'm still here thinking, how did we manage to score the highest total ever against NZ in NZ?? Territory and Possession alone makes me question as to did we score 5 tries??

But it's the defence that I'm most impressed about, our guys put in a colossal effort on defence, and I think our structure is starting to take shape.

I think PSDT needs to get an honourable mention. He was just immense, and made I think 32 tackles himself! And those images after the match just shows what it meant to him.

But just to add some perspective here, last year we lost to NZ in NZ 57-0, and now won 36-34. I haven't seen a turn around like that in a very long time.

I'm actually considering going to Loftus now. Although, the last time I was there and we played the All Blacks, the final score was 16-52 to the AB's...

 

[bazwaz]

I think PSDT needs to get an honourable mention. He was just immense, and made I think 32 tackles himself! And those images after the match just shows what it meant to him.
.

ESPN stats has both Mostert and SDT tied on 24 tackles a piece...but 32 sounds better

 

[Steeler]

alright I might get some bad press for this one but here it goes;

all this stuff "happy the All Blacks lost" stuff is bullcrap, especially from new zealanders! we are no where near that good that we can be considered near unbeatable and haven't appeared that way for a few years now, the last time I think we deserve that status/fear was 2015 and this sickly mindset from fellow new zealanders about it being "good we lost" has got to go - the all blacks didn't get where they were today with that crap - not onyl that it's condesceding, arrogant and delusional

i personally think we have become one of the most inconsistent (and at times complacent) teams in world rugby, we will trounce a team 57-0 in one game, then follow that up playing crap and nearly lose or even worse - lose.

we have lost games to Ireland, South Africa, Australia, the Lions, drew one with the Lions and nearly lost games to Scotland and SA and nearly lost the Bledisloe cup last season, we played crap vs France when they had 14 players by playing crap and defending bad

we have also avoided playing the top teams regulary for awhile now, only 2 series vs Ireland in 2016 and non against England when they were 2nd has masked our soft underbelly

routinely spanking the Aussies isn't a big deal, who have lost their test series in a whitewash to England and then again to Ireland on home soil, Scotland also managed a win there then going on to lose to Fiji

the lions series proved Hansen and Foster are having some selection issues and coughed up our fair share of other issues;

-the midfield being a problem defensively and selection wise, a lot of chopping and changing here, Crotty and Goodhue was an obvious paring this weekend

-first V kicking issues, it's more than twice Barrett has left points on the park that has directly caused us to lose a test match/series. for me this is easily fixed, you can fix this by bringing on McKenzie at fullback and put Smith on the wing if you don't wanna pick Naholo or a specialist 14

-lack of confidence in specialist winger at 14 - Naholo seems banished, other form players won't be selected from SR, only an injured NMS getting a run?

-lack of plan b is Barrett is not getting space at 10, Carter was able to put the ball inbehind teams and play a smart terroritry game, Barrett hasn't got that in the locker and we become cramp and under pressure


less than 10 games out from a world cup, lets get moving and sort out these issues

 

[bazwaz]

I think alot of the inconsistency can be attributed to rotation...with away games up next Hansen has tried to manage players workloads...so it would be safe to say that the team we used against SA was'nt our A team which also highlights the fact that our depth is'nt as great as we first thought...
Not to take away anything from SA as they rose to the occasion and defended like demons , made the most of limited opportunities and thoroughly deserved the win..

 

[Steeler]

I think alot of the inconsistency can be attributed to rotation...with away games up next Hansen has tried to manage players workloads...so it would be safe to say that the team we used against SA was'nt our A team which also highlights the fact that our depth is'nt as great as we first thought...
Not to take away anything from SA as they rose to the occasion and defended like demons , made the most of limited opportunities and thoroughly deserved the win..

this crap from our media https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...ley-holt-says-springboks-upset-win-good-sport

is really just dumb, i can't believe it mate

 

[bazwaz]

this crap from our media https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...ley-holt-says-springboks-upset-win-good-sport

is really just dumb, i can't believe it mate

Mate i'd be embarrased to admit to watching those tree huggers at Breakfast myself ...but i m relieved we've exposed problems with selections, backline configurations and leadership before the next RWC.....Hansen persisting with Jordie at fullback is my biggest concern...too young too soon and we have so many other better options as our last line of defence...

 

[saulan]

with away games up next Hansen has tried to manage players workloads...so it would be safe to say that the team we used against SA was'nt our A team which also highlights the fact that our depth is'nt as great as we first thought....

Pretty sure that was the A team, as did Eidde prior to the game.

Good good, Hansen rolling out the best 23.

 

[Steeler]

Mate i'd be embarrased to admit to watching those tree huggers at Breakfast myself ...but i m relieved we've exposed problems with selections, backline configurations and leadership before the next RWC.....Hansen persisting with Jordie at fullback is my biggest concern...too young too soon and we have so many other better options as our last line of defence...

it's concerning that he's no longer giving form outside backs a sniff, he seems happy to cap new forwards but not backs? the backs depth has always been the all blacks strength, we are obviously weakened side by not picking the form guys in the backs at the moment