[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (15/09/2018)

[bazwaz]

Pretty sure that was the A team, as did Eidde prior to the game.

If that was the case Jordie Barret would therefore be NZ's #1 fullback....but it's not and he is'nt.
Centre pairing was also a rotation..Hansen is quoted as saying he was giving players experience .

 

[bazwaz]

it's concerning that he's no longer giving form outside backs a sniff, he seems happy to cap new forwards but not backs? the backs depth has always been the all blacks strength, we are obviously weakened side by not picking the form guys in the backs at the moment

You mean like Bridge, Lam , Alaimalo..? Who would you pick?

 

[eidde]

Pretty sure that was the A team, as did Eidde prior to the game.

Yep, I did believe Hansen went for the best players he had available, based on form for the most part.
Injury will pretty much always prevent selecting the perfect 23 mind you.

Also.... My views are mine alone and are not representative of the wider New Zealand rugby community

 

[saulan]

If that was the case Jordie Barret would therefore be NZ's #1 fullback....but it's not and he is'nt.
Centre pairing was also a rotation..Hansen is quoted as saying he was giving players experience .

I don't think one player in a different position makes it a B team. From The first Aus game, there were four changes, two were forced by injury, one was the centre rotation of one youngster for another and the other was the switch with fullback and wing with Naholo dropping out.

In the same way, we had Kriel playing on the wing instead of playing at centre, and an actual wing on the bench, just because it's experimental doesn't make our whole team the B team.

 

[All Black]

We need SBW to tighten up that defence. Hope he plays this week.

 

[bazwaz]

Whatever you want to label that team i doubt you will see that same starting team again for the rest of the RC ....if it was our A team then we would be in big trouble now....but i think Hansen is boxing smart resting players for the tour hence the gamble he took...just like Meyer was gambling on his B team against Japan....you can't play your best players all the time....it's also a battle of attrition ...

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I think we are focusing on the wrong issues here. I haven't heard a single reasonable answer as to why they didn't go for a drop goal. Not one. The ABs probably had 3-4 players who could have made that drop kick. That alone would have changed the post game narrative. This thread would be half the size it is.

And sure ,BB missed more kicks than he should have, granted. The thing is, that is an execution problem. Not going for a drop goal is a decision-making problem. That is what makes it so hard to buy given the circumstances.

This wasn't some obscure strategy that required some very specific skill set and circumstances to work. You didn't need a player to go past 6 springboks in a lomu-like manoeuvre and score a last minute drmatic try. This was a cut and dry simple drop goal in front of the posts no further than 10-15 yards. There's no "what if" screnario that justifies not taking a drop goal. None.
Against their arch rivals.... at home....
It just doesnt make any sense.

I don't buy for a second the arguments "they were so confident they'd get the try" or "this is the way the all blacks play". ********. We're missing something here. I refuse to believe the entire all blacks squad,

I'm a bit embarrassed to even propose this as i am generally the first one to dismiss and even ridicule conspiracy theories, but i just dont buy that the all blacks, coaching staff included, all brain farted at unison.

 

[SomeOke]

@Cruz_del_Sur, it's one thing to make a rational decision after the game, and quite another to know what the right call was after 80 minutes of grueling rugby, especially when it goes against your instincts. They just made the wrong call at the time - probably because it was a call that they haven't made very often, and doesn't come naturally. It happens, nothing magical going on.

 

[bazwaz]

NZ has a history of booing teams that take drop goals.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

@SomeOke

I understand but i'm afraid i disagree. This was a mistake of biblical proportions that could have been easily fixed.
These are not a random group of 15 year olds. These are arguably one of the top 3 teams in the history of the sport and this was an obvious choice to any fan of the sport not supporting either team (to eliminate bias). Saying they just didn't think about the drop goal is not realistic imo. A lot of players sudddenly forgot they couldn't take a drop goal? Captain, scrum half, at least 3 potential kick takers? None of them thought of asking for it? No one else pointed it out to them?
It's a very, very hard sell.

NZ has a history of booing teams that take drop goals.

Did they boo Carter in RWC 15 when he took the drop against the springboks?
As much as some people hate drop goals i'm quite sure they hate losing even more.

 

[eidde]

@SomeOke

I understand but i'm afraid i disagree. This was a mistake of biblical proportions that could have been easily fixed.
These are not a random group of 15 year olds. These are arguably one of the top 3 teams in the history of the sport and this was an obvious choice to any fan of the sport not supporting either team (to eliminate bias). Saying they just didn't think about the drop goal is not realistic imo. A lot of players sudddenly forgot they couldn't take a drop goal? Captain, scrum half, at least 3 potential kick takers? None of them thought of asking for it? No one else pointed it out to them?
It's a very, very hard sell.





Did they boo Carter in RWC 15 when he took the drop against the springboks?
As much as some people hate drop goals i'm quite sure they hate losing even more.

They've said they talked about doing the drop goal, but saw space to the right so made the decision to go there instead. Your argument that we wouldn't be talking about it if they'd taken that option is a moot point, because nor would we be talking about it if they'd scored that try.

 

[bazwaz]

@SomeOke



Did they boo Carter in RWC 15 when he took the drop against the springboks?
As much as some people hate drop goals i'm quite sure they hate losing even more.

...there have been some great exponents of the dropkick in the past, Hugo Porta and Naas Botha come to mind but it's not used much in NZ....DC would be an exception and maybe they will start practising for one now going by what Hansen was saying but generally not a big part of the NZ game..

 

[Bada-Bing!]

NZ has a history of booing teams that take drop goals.

I don't hear any booing.

 

[bazwaz]

DC walks on water...

 

[Steeler]

You mean like Bridge, Lam , Alaimalo..? Who would you pick?

Naholo, Bridge, Lam or Alaimalo, Havilli or Damien McKenzie at FB and Ben Smith on the wing.

reality I think is our best 23 will not involve Jordie and it will look like this in the backs;

9.A.Smith 10.B.Barret 11. R.Ioane 12.SBW 13.Crotty 14.Naholo 15.Smith

21. TJ Perenara 22. J.Goodhue 23.D.McKenzie

i would trust that backline more than anything to score points and not let any in

 

[Steeler]

I think we are focusing on the wrong issues here. I haven't heard a single reasonable answer as to why they didn't go for a drop goal. Not one. The ABs probably had 3-4 players who could have made that drop kick. That alone would have changed the post game narrative. This thread would be half the size it is.

simple answer would be that they hadn't been training for it, which is unbelievable, it didn't happen in the Lions series either, my only guess is Barrett and McKenzie aren't confident in landing it and would rather go for the try which in most cases we can score, but seeing that teams are shutting us out in the final minutes i think it's sensible we learn to have it in locker sooner rather than later, cause Ireland and other teams are gunna take us close again and defend with their lives that a drop goal is the only way

Carter showed in RWC 2015 how crucial it is to have the ability to kick a drop goal, in winning positions it puts daylight over your opposition and in tight games it's a deciding factor - we are meant to be the best team in the world but aren't deploying it in critical situations - not good enough and bewildering in all honesty

 

[Bada-Bing!]

DC walks on water...

But BB doesn't until he learns in a tight game to manage the score board when it gets tight and go for DG when it matters. Can't seem to find any footage of him going for one for the ABs. He was on the bench for the two RWC matches, so surely must have crossed his mind on Saturday.

 

[bazwaz]

Naholo, Bridge, Lam or Alaimalo, Havilli or Damien McKenzie at FB and Ben Smith on the wing.

reality I think is our best 23 will not involve Jordie and it will look like this in the backs;

9.A.Smith 10.B.Barret 11. R.Ioane 12.SBW 13.Crotty 14.Naholo 15.Smith

21. TJ Perenara 22. J.Goodhue 23.D.McKenzie

i would trust that backline more than anything to score points and not let any in

I'm with you with Jordie still being too much of a rookie and out of his depth...
I like the idea of Mounga starting at 10 after back to back SR ***les with the Crusaders he is the form 10...
Add his Crusty centres teammates Crotty and Goodhue or SBW and Goodhue....Beaudy at fullback where he's got space to manoevre ...with Ben Smith - effectively two fullbacks and Iaone on the wing...
M'Kenzie on the bench can cover 10 or 15..-gotta love the enegy he brings
...Also a much stronger team with Frizzel and Retallika as well... am not a big fan of Perenara though - Aaron Smith is one of the leaders so should'nt be dragged like on the weekend when the game is tight...

 

[Steeler]

But BB doesn't until he learns in a tight game to manage the score board when it gets tight and go for DG when it matters. Can't seem to find any footage of him going for one for the ABs. He was on the bench for the two RWC matches, so surely must have crossed his mind on Saturday.

probably just can't do them, only logical explanation

 

[TRF_heineken]

But BB doesn't until he learns in a tight game to manage the score board when it gets tight and go for DG when it matters. Can't seem to find any footage of him going for one for the ABs. He was on the bench for the two RWC matches, so surely must have crossed his mind on Saturday.

I think it did cross his mind, in fact I think it crossed his and Goodhue's mind... At one stage while their forwards were trying to drive over there was a stage where Barritt and Goodhue was standing in the pocket, in the middle of the park. And for some reason Perenara ignored them.

But then again, it might have hit the posts...