[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 6: South Africa v New Zealand (07/10/2017)

[User1245]

I watched the match again and one thing stood out to me again so I snapped some pics. Now it's not to say these all of these had a major influence however the one did, where Squire focused an error for NZ's first penalty. Every kick off NZ players were in front of the kicker. The second one is marginal but still in front IMO. However the third and last time are the worst. Clearly offside and should have resulted in a penalty kick which could have change the outcome of the match.

This is probably something that needs to be addressed by the refs more consciously much like screw scrum feeds were being picked up again a season or two ago. NZ are frequently using the middle kick-off these days and I think pushing the boundaries here is favouring them unfairly.

EDIT: Smartcooky, what's your take on these pics?

 

[User1245]

Well, he failed the concussion test during the game, but there isn't any more news. In fact, there's no news on any of the Springbok players and the potential injuries. My guess is that they will all be assessed today before being either released back to their unions for Currie Cup duty, or to have a rest ahead of the EOYT.

Another thing I picked up when watching the match again is that Pollard was sitting on the bench in the last few minutes looking content. No ice packs or anything like that. Looked right as rain.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I watched the match again and one thing stood out to me again so I snapped some pics. Now it's not to say these all of these had a major influence however the one did, where Squire focused an error for NZ's first penalty. Every kick off NZ players were in front of the kicker. The second one is marginal but still in front IMO. However the third and last time are the worst. Clearly offside and should have resulted in a penalty kick which could have change the outcome of the match.

This is probably something that needs to be addressed by the refs more consciously much like screw scrum feeds were being picked up again a season or two ago. NZ are frequently using the middle kick-off these days and I think pushing the boundaries here is favouring them unfairly.

EDIT: Smartcooky, what's your take on these pics?

In front of kicker on kickoffs/restarts is scrum center not a PK.

 

[User1245]

In front of kicker on kickoffs/restarts is scrum center not a PK.

See, it gets called up so infrequently I don't know the ruling lol! Which is weird because in open play it's a penalty.
Anyway my point is they're still in front of the kicker

 

[Nubiwan]

In front of kicker on kickoffs/restarts is scrum center not a PK.

Question from those pix.... is chest in front of the kicker what counts, or feet across the half way line?

I agree with original poster. Think the ABS stretch the limits of fairness on the restarts. Often they get a good chase and knock the ball back too. Unfairly at times. Never called back. For all the other technical quibbling that goes on, this obvious infraction gets overlooked, Ref only has to call it once to keep everyone honest.

 

[Nubiwan]

In just about every statistical category but the one that mattered (the score), I think it is fair to say that is the first time I have seen the ABs being second best in a football contest this year. Including the ABs defeat and draw to the B&I Lions earlier. Only just perhaps, but that is great credit to the Boks. Well done the boks. A great game to watch. Just what the doctor ordered.

In the end, the ABS are just too clinical to be given a sniff. 2 individual tries from 90 and 60 metres. Yowzer! Buggers!

 

[Immenso]

I watched the match again and one thing stood out to me again so I snapped some pics. Now it's not to say these all of these had a major influence however the one did, where Squire focused an error for NZ's first penalty. Every kick off NZ players were in front of the kicker. The second one is marginal but still in front IMO. However the third and last time are the worst. Clearly offside and should have resulted in a penalty kick which could have change the outcome of the match.

This is probably something that needs to be addressed by the refs more consciously much like screw scrum feeds were being picked up again a season or two ago. NZ are frequently using the middle kick-off these days and I think pushing the boundaries here is favouring them unfairly.

EDIT: Smartcooky, what's your take on these pics?

In front of the kicker at a kickoff is a scrum, not an offside penalty.

 

[Immenso]

In front of the kicker at a kickoff is a scrum, not an offside penalty.

Edit. Ah, I see its already been said.

But, yes, see it let go a lot these days. One day soon it will be trendy for refs to police it again.

 

[mania]

Question from those pix.... is chest in front of the kicker what counts, or feet across the half way line?

I agree with original poster. Think the ABS stretch the limits of fairness on the restarts. Often they get a good chase and knock the ball back too. Unfairly at times. Never called back. For all the other technical quibbling that goes on, this obvious infraction gets overlooked, Ref only has to call it once to keep everyone honest.

Rule is feet and head have to behind the offside line.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Normally, I agree with your posts Lourens, but not today (but I agree that RC was an incorrect decision)

de Allende makes absolutly no attempt to pull up short. He took two clear steps after Sopoaga kicked the ball, lined him up never taking his eyes off him, then brought his forearm up into the throat of Sopoaga.

That is a yellow card all day long, and three times on Sunday!

from the footage i thought yellow but that description sounds like a red to me...

at the speed these guys are running those in front of the kicker pics are fractions of a second, that's really hair splitting and not something that could easily be seen in real time

 

[Larksea]

thats not far in front and will mostly need a replay/freeze frame to call it. most/all teams push this area. usually when it does get called its much worse than that.

 

[galumay]

I watched the match again and one thing stood out to me again so I snapped some pics.

I noticed it on one occasion watching the game, I was reminded of when the Tah's and the less so the Wallabies were doing the same thing. Its one of those things that teams will try and cheat a little bit with until the refs pick it up and then it stops again. In my experience its like offences at the breakdown, good teams will deliberatley break rules to sound out how the ref is ruling and then play to the edge of that. (think Rutchie)

A smart captain will watch for it and have a quiet word to the ref when they play the team. Given the number of times it happened in this game I wouldn't be surprised to see the ABs get pinged for it in the 3rd Bledisloe.

 

[galumay]

Anyways, after reading my post again I can see me actually calling the guy a cheat, and agree that's harsh. I read that the two had a chat afterwards and that things are good between the two. My apologies.

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.

Strength of character and integrity are rarer, realising your opinion was poorly expressed and apologising for it definitely falls in that category.

 

[Ospervat]

Curiosity piqued- so I looked at a few SA starts - could only find 2 from the match with the same angle.

Seems SA discipline is this area is excellent.

 

[mania]

thats not far in front and will mostly need a replay/freeze frame to call it. most/all teams push this area. usually when it does get called its much worse than that.

Nah it was pretty blatant. Saw it a couple of times. But again it's touchies job to police. ABs can't be blamed for pushing the envelope. I imagine it would've ceased had they been penalised.

 

[Nubiwan]

I noticed it on one occasion watching the game, I was reminded of when the Tah's and the less so the Wallabies were doing the same thing. Its one of those things that teams will try and cheat a little bit with until the refs pick it up and then it stops again. In my experience its like offences at the breakdown, good teams will deliberatley break rules to sound out how the ref is ruling and then play to the edge of that. (think Rutchie)

A smart captain will watch for it and have a quiet word to the ref when they play the team. Given the number of times it happened in this game I wouldn't be surprised to see the ABs get pinged for it in the 3rd Bledisloe.

For all the faff that went on about the none penalty in the 3rd BI lions test for the knock on, I reckon we can all then take a look at Read being offside on that kick off too. Justice? Indirectly.

 

[User1245]

Nah it was pretty blatant. Saw it a couple of times. But again it's touchies job to police. ABs can't be blamed for pushing the envelope. I imagine it would've ceased had they been penalised.

Yeah exactly players will push this where they can. I think the state of scrum feeds before it started being pulled up is a good example of how just about every team was doing it.

Common sense would be to call it if it was being used to disrupt the other team (short contested kicks) or not (deep kicks). Much like screw throws are policed. If the other team doesn't contest, there's leniency in the accuracy vs when it's a contested throw.

BTW I'm not suggesting the match was won or lost here. Besides the first one where Squire milked a penalty we fielded the rest fine from memory. I'm sure Jantjies would of screwed up some how to put pressure on the team again.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Nah it was pretty blatant. Saw it a couple of times. But again it's touchies job to police. ABs can't be blamed for pushing the envelope. I imagine it would've ceased had they been penalised.

Correct you on a couple things from two posts.
1. It's not an offside line.
2. It's any part of body that's on the ground.
3. Touchies are on 10m and 22m for kickoffs and restarts. IFOK is responsibility of referee.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i'm just convinced you'd be able to see that definitively in real time so unless we're talking about the TMO checking a replay in slow mo and calling them back if they have infringed im not sure what we're saying...are we trying to slow the game down ?

Id rather they policed non straight scrum feeds than tiny infringements like this

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

agreed

those are only clear and obvious in slow motion and freeze frames... i don't think people would be happy if they went to TMO everytime a restart had a marginal IFOK

the referee is also starting a full on sprint along with the players as he is looking for IFOK so they'd have to be pretty in far in front for it to be clear to him