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[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 6: South Africa v New Zealand (07/10/2017)

TRF_heineken

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Venue: DHL Newlands, Cape Town
Time: 17:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
Teams

South Africa: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Dillyn Leyds, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Ross Cronje, 8 Francois Louw, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6, Siya Kolisi, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Ruan Dreyer, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Trevor, 18 Wilco, 19 Mostert, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Handre Pollard, 23 Damian de Allende


New Zealand: 15 Damian McKenzie, 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder, 13 Ryan Crotty, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Rieko Ioane, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read (captain), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Squire, 5 Scott Barrett, 4 Sam Whitelock, 3 Nepo Laulala, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Kane Hames

Substitutes: 16 Codie Taylor, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Ofa Tu'ungafasi, 19 Patrick Tuipulotu, 20 Matt Todd, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Lima Sopoaga, 23 David Havili
 
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Brodie Retallick will miss this match due to the dreadful news of the death of his unborn son.

Uzair Cassiem has been ruled out due to a rib injury sustained against Australia.
 
Whats a good result here for the Bokke?
A win is obviously and ludicrously out of the question.
It's not at altitude, and the ABs are bound to have some fans at the game at Newlands.

For me 20 points is the swinging point. More than that and I'm upset (despite it being a 37 point improvement) less than that is somewhat acceptable. Less than 10 would be a great result.

Cassiem gone is not a huge loss but I do wonder if the pack will need to be shuffled to accommodate quota's bringing in Nyakane, at 3 seems like probably the best compromise but he's not known for his scrummaging either, and judging by the game in NZ he could get monstered (not that Dreyer wouldn't necessarily).

Otherwise it's a huge opportunity for Leyds to prove his defensive prowess. Cronje is a straight up improvement from Hougard, and it's is still technically a home game and NZ have been traveling a lot recently, I think expecting better than a 20 point margin is reasonable as fans.
 
i ready he was one of five that were coming back to NZ to make room for the five that were rested

could be wrong
 
I'd like to see him get another run he looked great on the ball.
I was proud of the young guns in that awesome first half.
Lets see an 80 minute performance from the boys.
 
Latest news from the Bok camp is that Raymond Rhule has again been released back to the Cheetahs, and Thomas Du Toit has been called up for prop cover.
 
Whoop whoop, the tank engine has arrived. Though I highly doubt we'll actually get to see him run on. He's been having another great season with Tendai being at the boks, the guy can scrum! His opposite numbers are often not as happy before the second scrum of the game as they were the first :)

I'm glad Leyds isn't getting tossed away after not missing one tackle and having the most carries for the boks. Not only does he provide extra cover but he's shown he wants to play, imo you can't really argue that Rhule is a step up from Leyds as things stand. AC obviously wanted to protect him after the Albany test, I'm just glad the team's interest seemingly come first.

Not happy with the ref, I think French refs are way too reactive in their officiating rather then proactive and they tend to muddle the result of these bigger games, hopefully we have a better time adapting to him then the kiwis but it's unlikely given our history with French refs.

It's all about the margin, I had hoped we would've been within 10 in the Albany test, way too optimistic so I'll double it and say to be within 20 will make this an acceptable outing. Here's hoping we don't get nilled again.

I'm really chuffed with the comments from the bok camp about us changing the way we play rugby, and that we wont play conservatively just to please the masses. Equally pleased with Hansen saying we can become quite dangerous should we choose to stick with our transition to running rugby. I would have expected the same old "Teams shouldn't try play like NZ." or calls for us to stick to our traditional strengths from their side.

I think it strange that when other teams are building a squad or a brand new ethos the media and fans give them breathing room to grow. Here in SA we expect after a loss to Arg, a drubbing by NZ, a loss to Italy and our current team only being together for about 4 months that if we "just" choose the right overseas players and play conservatively enough we will be able to pip NZ overnight. We're deluded to think we're so superior to other nations that we don't have to build a squad, or fight for our wins. I pity AC trying to create something special amidst such defeatism from old boks, pundits and fans alike. Seems the only praise we get of late is from our opposition who can obviously see the signs of reform more clearly.

Rugby is not what it was 10 years ago, 07 and the machinations that won us the cup are dead, 2011 was our last chance to win the old way, and Bryce saw to that. HM proved that conservative rugby was good enough to get us so far until we were totally out-classed and helpless against better opposition. Teams are changing and evolving across the board and bok fans should be pleased we're finally starting to get with the times. I can watch the boks loose a thousand times if they play exciting rugby and can win a thousand after a lot of refinement, I can't do the same if the only points we get are off Morne's boot. Not to say kicking doesn't have it's place! but we shouldn't rely on the luck of the boot to rule the result, rather use kicking to augment our running game then the other way around.
 
@Durbanite , good post, I know many would disagree with you but I don't. In the end I still think AC is incompetent but I do feel we need to bring our rugby into the modern era, and in doing so will take some growing pains. I actually thought we played pretty well vs Aus, as long as our players and team keeps evolving I'm happy. Stagnation is what makes me bleak and apathetic.
 
@Durbanite , good post, I know many would disagree with you but I don't. In the end I still think AC is incompetent but I do feel we need to bring our rugby into the modern era, and in doing so will take some growing pains. I actually thought we played pretty well vs Aus, as long as our players and team keeps evolving I'm happy. Stagnation is what makes me bleak and apathetic.

I think the majority of Saffas bought into the idea of a more expansive game. But to be honest the execution is lacking tremendously. I also feel that to play the type of game we want to play, certain players needs to feature. For example, I don't think there is any other lock in SA, with better ball skills than RG Snyman, but RG lacks a but of the bruiser stuff (which I think Etzebeth has too much of).

There are however many ways to play expansively, and like you said, AC is incompetent. Especially with the expansive game plans. He never used an expansive gameplan when he coached the Stormers, or when he was Jake White's assistant coach. This is newer to him than to some of the players.
 
Well Eben has 7 offloads this RC, tied with our top off loaders Kriel and Coetzee. I think our selection isn't perfect but it's pretty close to full stregnth as is. The only obvious guy who should be included is RjvR and considering how inexperienced the rest of our backs are, maybe playing our incumbent centre pairing is the correct call.

Completely agree that our execution needs a lot of work, that also comes from our Super Rugby franchises playing ball which they have started to do (and I believe even the Bulls might follow through next year with Mitchell as head coach).

Also agree that AC isn't exactly the right person to lead us in this new direction, as he's never shown any indication he's capable of coaching that kind of style, I feel like he's only coming around because he failed so utterly last year trying to get us to play AC ball.

In the end we are playing in a new style with very inexperienced players, I never like losing but I can accept it as long as we are growing. It's games like Aus and NZ away this year that really make me annoyed because in those game it looked like we were taking a step back from the growth we've made.
 
Well Eben has 7 offloads this RC, tied with our top off loaders Kriel and Coetzee. I think our selection isn't perfect but it's pretty close to full stregnth as is. The only obvious guy who should be included is RjvR and considering how inexperienced the rest of our backs are, maybe playing our incumbent centre pairing is the correct call.

Completely agree that our execution needs a lot of work, that also comes from our Super Rugby franchises playing ball which they have started to do (and I believe even the Bulls might follow through next year with Mitchell as head coach).

Also agree that AC isn't exactly the right person to lead us in this new direction, as he's never shown any indication he's capable of coaching that kind of style, I feel like he's only coming around because he failed so utterly last year trying to get us to play AC ball.

In the end we are playing in a new style with very inexperienced players, I never like losing but I can accept it as long as we are growing. It's games like Aus and NZ away this year that really make me annoyed because in those game it looked like we were taking a step back from the growth we've made.

Yeah. I just hope that Rassie can get things up to standard when he arrives. I'm just worried that AC might be doing too much damage before that happens. I think we already showed the past 3 years we are much poorer than we used to be...
 
South Africa looked decent in the first 10minutes in NZ then just got blown away after the ABs got the comfort of a lead. I think this is a match where more conservative tactics for the Boks can be justified and then loosen up if you are in an okay place after 30 and not at risk of a drubbing.

Damage limitation only here as they must be nervous of the crowd's response to a repeat result on home soil.
 
South Africa looked decent in the first 10minutes in NZ then just got blown away after the ABs got the comfort of a lead. I think this is a match where more conservative tactics for the Boks can be justified and then loosen up if you are in an okay place after 30 and not at risk of a drubbing.

Damage limitation only here as they must be nervous of the crowd's response to a repeat result on home soil.
I mean what does conservative tactics mean anyway? Kicking for territory and keeping it up front?
We can and will try to gain dominance with our forwards, but a territorial game plan is questionable with modern counter-attacking rugby (espeicially with the likes of NMS and D-Mac in the Kiwi side).
Also we don't really have the personnel to play that game in any case, we'd have to bring in Steyn at 15 and perhaps give Bosch a few years to be our 10. Yawn.
 
I'm wary of saying anything this year.... two draws between the Wallabies and the Boks, home and away, a blowout against the Boks in NZ... yet I'm still inclined to see the Boks play with more desire and more of a cool head this week.
It's a dead rubber for the AB's with the RC in the bag. The boys will be playing for the pride in the AB jersey, and facing the old enemy away in the Republic.
There isn't the edge of winning something on the line, that might take the focus away? Or it might allow them to relax and play rugby?
I expect a disciplined performance from the AB's.
I expect more desire at home from the Boks.
 
All Blacks team named:

1. Kane Hames (4)
2. Dane Coles (53)
3. Nepo Laulala (8)
4. Samuel Whitelock (91)
5. Scott Barrett (12)
6. Liam Squire (11)
7. Sam Cane (48)
8. Kieran Read (105) - Captain
9. Aaron Smith (66)
10. Beauden Barrett (58)
11. Rieko Ioane (8)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (41)
13. Ryan Crotty (30)
14. Nehe Milner-Skudder (10)
15. Damian McKenzie (7)

16. Codie Taylor (24)
17. Wyatt Crockett (66)
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi (9)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (13)
20. Matt Todd (9)
21. Tawera Kerr-Barlow (26)
22. Lima Sopoaga (11)
23. David Havili (1)
 

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