[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: Wales vs England (11/02/2017)

[ncurd]

Just leave it guys its the same after most matches, England fans will pick on one player as not pulling their weight (justifies or nor) and The Jones Boy will claim they are the greatest thing known to man. Just look at what he said about Mr. Burgess at center during the world cup.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Isn't there a whole banter thread for posting ********?

 

[ncurd]

Isn't there a whole banter thread for posting ********?

I think its being disguised as actual 'analysis'.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

They did it all day long, and we didn't get ****.

More than that, they frequently took out English players before they reached the ruck to prevent England competing. The most blatant was Webb taking out Brown in the Welsh 22 and Tipuric running clean past the player on the floor and ploughing straight into and English player attempting to join the ruck.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can the southern Irish posters wait until the Ireland v England thread gets started before making up your excuses please.

 

[Every Time Ref]

We had pretty much equal territory, possession, carries and tackles, except that we carried for an extra 98m. We won all our mauls and one of theirs, nicked one of their scrums while winning all of ours and all of our lineouts too, and their forwards conceded 7 penalties to our 4. Did give away more turnovers though.

I didn't see a beaten pack play and I don't see one looking at the stats either.

I also thought Ford had a pretty good game. One poor kick-off (which Daly rescued), one wonky up and under, one pass behind Farrell (who was able to rescue it and give it anyway) and that was it. The rest of his game was sweet sweet passing to men looking at soft shoulders. As for his defence - yes he conceded yards, but he also made a number of key tackles (Webb when he forward passes to Biggar, Scott Williams with a sorta overlap (doesn't complete tackle though but does enough), Jon Davies when there's no ruck guards) and I don't recall him conceding any line breaks.

Tbh, I thought most of our guys had acceptable to good games at least. Even Hartley. Maybe not Clifford and Brown. The big ugly exception is Ben Youngs and even he did some good stuff amid the big ugly eye-catching game killing mistakes from hell. Forgot Hartley was meant to be guarding Youngs for that box-kick, maybe not him either. England bossed the first and last quarters of the game, and I think there's a bit of overreaction to a few big hits and how long we had to wait to win it.

I guess I'm remembering the bits we were dominated over the bits we were on top here. My point was, during those bits (when our carriers were losing the contact and the gainline battle), Ford could have been better. My point was also that it's not a massive deal

I think fundamentally our problem was lack of carriers, if it could be simplified down to one factor. Pretty sure ratsapprentice is around somewhere to back me up on this...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I just wonder though looking at the stats how we all came away from that game convinced England had been dominated when the stats suggest that, besides the breakdown, we were actually better at stopping the Welsh than they were at stopping us. Did Wales spend more time in our 22?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can the southern Irish posters wait until the Ireland v England thread gets started before making up your excuses please.

1 reply bro, you're mad obsessed!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

More than that, they frequently took out English players before they reached the ruck to prevent England competing. The most blatant was Webb taking out Brown in the Welsh 22 and Tipuric running clean past the player on the floor and ploughing straight into and English player attempting to join the ruck.

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[Sorp111]

Possibly dumb question. I just watched the game again and Lawes packed down at blind side on every single scrum. So was he playing blindside or was Itoje? Watching the game again I thought Lawes was fantastic in defense.

 

[Raggs]

Possibly dumb question. I just watched the game again and Lawes packed down at blind side on every single scrum. So was he playing blindside or was Itoje? Watching the game again I thought Lawes was fantastic in defense.

Looks like one scrum lawes was at lock (the one in the gif a page or so back, where Clifford was slow to react).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

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I love that sort of play, rarely will it ever be picked up amd its infuriating for the opposition.

 

[valley commando]

I live in Wales so was watching Scrum V earlier and the bias was worse than I've ever seen .... Ross Harries, Sara Elgin and Gwyn Jones took it in turns to shout down Phil Vickery if he dared mention an England player whilst spending at least 20 minutes of the hour long program talking about Ross Moriarty (who I agreed was brilliant) then 10 minutes talking about Biggar and 5 talking about Sam Davies then showed the Welsh Pro 12 teams before finishing the program without even showing the Scotland Vs France or the Ireland vs Italy games before finishing up by saying Wales lost the game England didn't win it ..... FML who's funding this **** ......

Proper rugby people who understand the game, if you honestly think Wales weren't the better team your deluded, English man Adrian Durham the Talk sports drivetime presenter nailed it by saying Wales were the better team and that they lost rather than England won

 

[ratsapprentice]

Possibly dumb question. I just watched the game again and Lawes packed down at blind side on every single scrum. So was he playing blindside or was Itoje? Watching the game again I thought Lawes was fantastic in defense.

Perfectly possible that Itoje was scrummaging, but playing as a 6 in every other phase of play other than directly after a scrum.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Proper rugby people who understand the game, if you honestly think Wales weren't the better team your deluded, English man Adrian Durham the Talk sports drivetime presenter nailed it by saying Wales were the better team and that they lost rather than England won

Besides turnovers name one part of the game Wales beat England.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Proper rugby people who understand the game, if you honestly think Wales weren't the better team your deluded, English man Adrian Durham the Talk sports drivetime presenter nailed it by saying Wales were the better team and that they lost rather than England won

Indicative of an average side losing to a good side, England won because they are the better team, maybe not for 75 mins on Saturday but they stayed within touch, used the bench far more effectively and took advantage of a schoolboy error that they wouldn't make themselves because they're better.

Losing a game that you should have won is a terrible sign, Ireland did it last week and it'll likely prove costly come 18 March.

 

[dullonien]

More than that, they frequently took out English players before they reached the ruck to prevent England competing. The most blatant was Webb taking out Brown in the Welsh 22 and Tipuric running clean past the player on the floor and ploughing straight into and English player attempting to join the ruck.

Noticed that too.

Still, I think England were lucky to escape 2 yellow cards. One when Ford was way offside when Wales were pressing 5m out and tackled AWJ just as he was catching the ball. Given Fords tackling in that game, AWJ could have scored himself, otherwise there was at least a 1 man overlap outside. The second was when Haskell blatantly killed the ball after a sustained build-up barely 10m from the English line.

Not saying things were one way, or that the ref was at all poor (thought he had a great game overall), but if we're pointing out Welsh indiscretions, then it's only fair.

 

[Raggs]

Proper rugby people who understand the game, if you honestly think Wales weren't the better team your deluded, English man Adrian Durham the Talk sports drivetime presenter nailed it by saying Wales were the better team and that they lost rather than England won

Excusing any major inconsistency during the course of the game or insane calls from the referee, I tend to find the better team is the one with the most points on the scoreboard when the final whistle goes. It's not even as though any of the major stats support the idea that Wales were the better team either. England ran almost 100m more, had better success in the scrum and lineout, gave away almost half the number of penalties, offloaded far more often. Wales beat one more defender, and made one more clean break.

Wales also kicked all their attempts at goal, so there's not even the old classic "If this player had kicked his points we'd have won." that old trope would have ended up putting England 11 ahead (but it's an awful thing to suggest since the whole game would change from the very first miss/hit).

Both sides have good plays and poor ones, both sides make good reads and bad, and have individual errors. The only way a team can be the better team, and lose, is to have the referee influence the game in a manner that is incomprehensible, such as denying perfectly good tries etc. Now Garces wasn't the best ref in the world, but his bad calls went in all directions, and whilst my one eyedness would have me think that England actually got the browner end of the stick, I suspect it was overall rather balanced.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Noticed that too.

Still, I think England were lucky to escape 2 yellow cards. One when Ford was way offside when Wales were pressing 5m out and tackled AWJ just as he was catching the ball. Given Fords tackling in that game, AWJ could have scored himself, otherwise there was at least a 1 man overlap outside. The second was when Haskell blatantly killed the ball after a sustained build-up barely 10m from the English line.

Not saying things were one way, or that the ref was at all poor (thought he had a great game overall), but if we're pointing out Welsh indiscretions, then it's only fair.

It was Youngs, not Ford but considering the number of times Wales killed English ball illegally all over the park, including in the 22 as the clip shows, a yellow for us but not for Wales would be pretty unfair. Also I would venture Youngs wasn't that far offside if at all. If anyone can find a good angle of where youngs is as the pass goes out we could settle it. As for Haskell, he was on the wrong side but the thing was Cole had actually got the turnover legitimately, his actions hurt us more than Wales as a turnover became a penalty to Wales instead.

I just look back at that game and I'm seeing less of the Welsh dominance, I'm seeing England making some stupid mistakes in our 22 that kept us under pressure and it was actually quite rare for Wales to get into our 22 as a result of their own play rather than an English error. In a way the final error by Wales in their 22 at the end of the game distorted things as England had made errors worse than that in our 22 a few times by then but Wales hadn't capitalised on them. The area Wales did dominate us "the breakdown" on closer inspection was largely down to illegal play (lying over the ball, not releasing, taking players out before they entered the ruck). I think if the ref had actually reffed the breakdown the game would have been very different.

 

[Maverick1987]

Proper rugby people who understand the game, if you honestly think Wales weren't the better team your deluded, English man Adrian Durham the Talk sports drivetime presenter nailed it by saying Wales were the better team and that they lost rather than England won

I didn't say either team were the better team . All I said was they were biased as **** on Scrum V and have also acknowledged after it was bought up that it is a Welsh program so it is to be expected .... stop looking for an argument that isn't there ....

By the way I don't buy that Wales lost it not England won it simply because you had plenty of opportunity to score points when you were in the ascendency but didn't manage it . England's defensive effort other than the Williams try (which was a world class move) was very solid and incredibly disciplined ....

On the other hand we let a lot of chances slide but when we had a solid chance we put you to the sword . It's as simple as that