[2016 Super Rugby] SA Transfers & General Discussion

[unrated]

So is someone going to create an SA Super Rugby Discussion thread or is this one going serve that duty? nonetheless I have to start voicing some concerns. The two African group gets one wildcard team but the Australasian group gets 3. If the jaguars does well as expected then South Africa is only going to get two Playoff teams with New Zealand about dead sure to get ATLEAST 3 teams

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So is someone going to create an SA Super Rugby Discussion thread or is this one going serve that duty? nonetheless I have to start voicing some concerns. The two African group gets one wildcard team but the Australasian group gets 3. If the jaguars does well as expected then South Africa is only going to get two Playoff teams with New Zealand about dead sure to get ATLEAST 3 teams

NZ are probably going to get 3 teams into the finals, possibly 4. SA WILL have 2 (can't see the Sunwolves push the Bulls and Stormers out of a finals berth and I have a straight shoot out between the Lions, Jaguars and Sharks for topping the other conference), possibly 3. I think its fair to say the NZ teams on the whole look like stronger outfits. Looks fair enough to me.

I'll just change the ***le of this thread and it can serve as a general discussion thread for the SA teams as we've had the squads on here as they are getting released.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The heading is Kings squad bolstered;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/kings-super-rugby-squad-bolstered-20160105

I'm not sure how much that'll help. I mean, you can only field 15 players at a time so quality > quantity..

SARU should be looking to get a cash injection somehow and get those ~80 pro players from the North back to our shores. WP Nel is arguably the top tighthead in Europe ATM, CJ Stander regularly makes the XV of the week in the Pro!2, many of our players do the same in the AP and T14 and its not just our forwards. The Kings as is are a joke but we could field extra SR level teams if we could get our talent back;

1 G Steenkamp / S Kitshoff / H van der Merwe
2 B du Plessis / R Strauss / C Ralepele
3 WP Nel / (Koch, Malherbe, one of them at least seems sure to go) / W Herbst
4 B Botha / both F van der Merwes and a ton else less settled players; J Marais is now a key player for Bordeaux
5 A Bekker / J du Plessis / J Kruger
6 H Brussow / F Louw / D Fourie
7 J Smith / W Alberts / A Claasen
8 D Vermeulen / CJ Stander / P Spies
9 F du Preez / R Pienaar / R Kockott
10 M Steyn / J Goosen / G Hume
11 B Habana
12 W Olivier / R Ebersohn / B Barrit
13 J Fourie / DTH van der Merwe / P Howard
14 G Aplon / G van den Heever
15 L Ludik / Z Kirchner / S Spedding

Many of those players are lost to SA due to taking up wih other nations but that's three SR level teams right there off the top of my head. That'd go a long way to bolstering some of our current teams. We really need to develop our wings though and from grass roots. Even the Euro teams are picking up on ours with cheap Fijians and fringe NZ players prefered.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Howard should of stayed in SA has he played for Saints first team yet?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Howard should of stayed in SA has he played for Saints first team yet?

I don't expect him to but even though I rate him I expect he'd have trouble starting here as well as the Stormers have all of Damian de Allende, Juan de Jongh and Jean de Villiers at center. That said I do rate him and I'm sure he'd have made half the games for us because De Allende is out for 4 months, De Jongh looks like he is now a fixture and going to Rio with the 7's team and JdV is half-way out as it is. An area of strength traditionally is suddenly a bit shaky for us. I am hoping we can lure Jaque Fourie back for another season with us after the Top League comes to a close as our backline is very very green.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't expect him to but even though I rate him I expect he'd have trouble starting here as well as the Stormers have all of Damian de Allende, Juan de Jongh and Jean de Villiers at center. That said I do rate him and I'm sure he'd have made half the games for us because De Allende is out for 4 months, De Jongh looks like he is now a fixture and going to Rio with the 7's team and JdV is half-way out as it is. An area of strength traditionally is suddenly a bit shaky for us. I am hoping we can lure Jaque Fourie back for another season with us after the Top League comes to a close as our backline is very very green.

Bulls, Stormers and Lions should go well enough but none of our teams will be pushing for the ***le I expect.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't expect him to but even though I rate him I expect he'd have trouble starting here as well as the Stormers have all of Damian de Allende, Juan de Jongh and Jean de Villiers at center. That said I do rate him and I'm sure he'd have made half the games for us because De Allende is out for 4 months, De Jongh looks like he is now a fixture and going to Rio with the 7's team and JdV is half-way out as it is. An area of strength traditionally is suddenly a bit shaky for us. I am hoping we can lure Jaque Fourie back for another season with us after the Top League comes to a close.

@TRF_Stromer2010 you know JDV is at Leicester not Stormers?

He is expecting to make first start soon, been training with Manu for the last month or so.

 

[unrated]

NZ are probably going to get 3 teams into the finals, possibly 4. SA WILL have 2 (can't see the Sunwolves push the Bulls and Stormers out of a finals berth and I have a straight shoot out between the Lions, Jaguars and Sharks for topping the other conference), possibly 3. I think its fair to say the NZ teams on the whole look like stronger outfits. Looks fair enough to me.
.

The Tournament Format is sold up to 2018 so no matter how well our teams start performing we will have the short end of the straw until they change the format again. This year I agree It looks like New Zealand Teams will have 4 teams in the playoffs which is fair considering their current strength but now this is condemning us with 2 playoff spots ( and a max of 3) up until 2018. Luckily South African teams are good at overcoming adversity.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The Tournament Format is sold up to 2018 so no matter how well our teams start performing we will have the short end of the straw until they change the format again. This year I agree It looks like New Zealand Teams will have 4 teams in the playoffs which is fair considering their current strength but now this is condemning us with 2 playoff spots ( and a max of 3) up until 2018. Luckily South African teams are good at overcoming adversity.

If we can't get 3 teams into the play-offs with our advantages over Los Jaguares (more games in SA and los Jaguares are brand spanking new to the comp) then that's our problem. Aus and NZ are also not garuanteed more than 1 team in the finals. The likeliest result is 3 for NZ, 2 for Aus, 3 for SA. If anything the setup favors us IMO. If Argentina get in then more power to them and it'd serve the likes of the Sharks right for not getting their house in order. If NZ end up getting 4 teams in at the Aus conference's expense then that's fair reward to them for better talent/coaching/recruitment/management etc.

I too can't wait for a revised tournament format even if it means adding two more for the sake of balance (I can't see SANZAR dropping teams sadly) then so be it. But I just can't see how SA are being disadvantaged by this format?

@TRF_Stromer2010 you know JDV is at Leicester not Stormers?

He is expecting to make first start soon, been training with Manu for the last month or so.

I saw he was linked to Tigers. I wasn't sure yet if he would be vailable for any of our games (wasn't following anything much in our off-season). Thanks for clearing that up. I just have a horrible feeling that the Stormers might not end up doing much this year. My hopes have gone from sky high to dashed in the space of a month. Its crazy!

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/springbok-jj-engelbrecht-heads-for-wales-20160114

So JJ is moving to Wales to play for the Ospreys. Can't say that I blame him, he would have most probably been the first player in the backline to have been subbed for the Bulls. And with the potential of Travis Ismaiel and Jamba Ulengo, the position at wing is definetely going to be tough. That plus his poor form last year would certainly have been some form of motivation. Pity that we are losing him, but it's something I'm used to by now.

 

[unrated]

JJ is a big loss another springbok heading overseas. There is inevitably going to be injury's even as soon as the first pre-season game and im sure the bulls would have found a way to use him consistently.

 

[SomeOke]

My thoughts on conference 1.

Firstly the two conferences are:
Conference 1 (Plays the Aussie Teams)
Bulls
Stormers
Cheetahs
Sunwolves

Conference 2 (Play's the Kiwi teams)
Lions
Sharks
Kings
Jaguars

Firstly just looking straight at the conferences it's pretty clear that conference 1 has the advantage. Both because I would rather have the Sunwolves than the Jaguars in my conference (at least for now) and because this year we play the Aussie teams on our away leg rather than the Kiwi's. While a couple of the Aussie teams are up there with the best in the competition, their lack of depth means that there will usually be at least 2 relatively easy games in Australia if not 3.

I would also say the Bulls look to be the strongest team on paper, I thought they had the best youth in curry cup, with a strong all round back line with good players in nearly every position, as well as a great front row and good loosies. the only area where they look a little thin is at lock. They would be my picks for conference 1 leaders and probably my pick for SA's best shot at a ***le this year.

I was initially hopeful about the Stormers but unfortunately we still haven't managed to pick up a strong half-back pairing, and our best biggest asset last year (our centre pairing) has been disrupted with JdJ playing sevens and DdA out with a big injury. Our outside backs are alright but nothing special and need a bit of development. Our forward pack is still fairly strong (especially at lock) but we did loose some monsters from last year like Kitsof and Vermulen. We still have potential and if some of our young guys really put their hands up we could perform well. Most importantly we haven't really changed our coaching structure at all, and I while I will give Robbie Fleck the benefit of the doubt he was in charge of our backline when it was continually under-utilized and I don't really see this changing. Basically I'm hopeful but I don't think we'll be serious contenders, perhaps second in the conference due to it being relatively weak.

The other conference will be much tougher. I can see Jaguars, Lions or Sharks winning it and it won't be an easy battle for any of them.

 

[TRF_heineken]

My thoughts on conference 1.

Firstly the two conferences are:
Conference 1 (Plays the Aussie Teams)
Bulls
Stormers
Cheetahs
Sunwolves

Conference 2 (Play's the Kiwi teams)
Lions
Sharks
Kings
Jaguars

Firstly just looking straight at the conferences it's pretty clear that conference 1 has the advantage. Both because I would rather have the Sunwolves than the Jaguars in my conference (at least for now) and because this year we play the Aussie teams on our away leg rather than the Kiwi's. While a couple of the Aussie teams are up there with the best in the competition, their lack of depth means that there will usually be at least 2 relatively easy games in Australia if not 3.

I would also say the Bulls look to be the strongest team on paper, I thought they had the best youth in curry cup, with a strong all round back line with good players in nearly every position, as well as a great front row and good loosies. the only area where they look a little thin is at lock. They would be my picks for conference 1 leaders and probably my pick for SA's best shot at a ***le this year.

I was initially hopeful about the Stormers but unfortunately we still haven't managed to pick up a strong half-back pairing, and our best biggest asset last year (our centre pairing) has been disrupted with JdJ playing sevens and DdA out with a big injury. Our outside backs are alright but nothing special and need a bit of development. Our forward pack is still fairly strong (especially at lock) but we did loose some monsters from last year like Kitsof and Vermulen. We still have potential and if some of our young guys really put their hands up we could perform well. Most importantly we haven't really changed our coaching structure at all, and I while I will give Robbie Fleck the benefit of the doubt he was in charge of our backline when it was continually under-utilized and I don't really see this changing. Basically I'm hopeful but I don't think we'll be serious contenders, perhaps second in the conference due to it being relatively weak.

The other conference will be much tougher. I can see Jaguars, Lions or Sharks winning it and it won't be an easy battle for any of them.

I wish I had the same high hopes for the Bulls as you do. But our Squad is so young, albeit very exciting. My mouth is watering with the thought of our exciting backline doing some damage. But alas, I fear we are going to struggle in the forwards. With the loss of Morne Mellet (Retirement due to Neck injuries), we are going to rely heavily on our Bok props, Trevor Nyakane and Marcel v/d Merwe. Their backups are Dean Greyling (Ugh!!) and Werner Kruger, who IMHO is not up to standard for Super Rugby level. At hooker we have Adriaan Strauss, but his subs aren't playing that well, the bit I've seen so far.

At lock, we are basically starting afresh, Jonathan Jenkins and RG Snyman, the lock pair of the U/20 Baby Boks of last year is probably the main contenders with Marvin Orie and Grant Hattingh their back-ups.

The loose trio is probably the biggest concern for me. Lappies Labuschagne and Arno Botha and Deon Stegman are our first choice, but they are all 3 injury prone, and I fear it's just a matter of time when we will have no choice but to play more of our younglings.

Scrumhalf, we have Rudy Paige, but we have now lost Francois Hougaard who is with the Blitzbokke and doing a great job so far. here again we have unknown back-ups.

We just have way too many guys who will be making their Super Rugby Debut, along with our new coach. I fear that we might become wooden spooners again.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't want to end up with egg on my face but despite the Stormers' chances taking hits aplenty I still feel we have the pack to dominate the Bulls and minimalize the advantage they have on us in the backline. I am making two big assumptions here and that is that our defensive shape in back should hold well enough and that our forwards ought to have a significant upper hand. Kitshoff and Vermeulen are huger losses its true but our direct replacements aren't poor (Janse van Rensburg and Carr/Burger) even if different and we have depth in quality at both locks this year. Hooker remains our big issue in the front row unless they sorted out the line-out in the off season. Ntubeni is injured in any case.

1 JC Janse van Rensburg (Oli Kebble) - good enough IMO
2 Mbonambi/Willemse (ditto and with Scarra set to come back) - we needed to sign one of the Lions' trio of hookers IMO or bring in one of our overseas Bok hookers (Du Plessis, Burden, Brits); this is an area of concern..
3 Malherbe (Koch) - great though reports are running that Europe are sniffing around I expect they'll only move off after SR 2016
4 Eben Etzebeth (Jean Kleyn) - great
5 PS du Toit (JD Schickerling) - great, I hope Schickerling gets chances and that he didn't lose too much during his lay-off. What a come-back coming back from a broken neck!!
6 Sikhumbuzo Notshe - electric
7 Schalk Burger (Siya Kolisi) - great
8 Nizaam Carr - good assuming somewhat of a return to 2014 form.

A very well rounded pack with replacements being on a par and what we lose in grunt in Vermeulen we add in terms of pace in the backrow which is probably more useful in SR anyways.

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/hougaard-to-feature-for-bulls-20160201

Hougaard, who has a Springbok Sevens contract with SARU, will play in the Sydney, Las Vegas and Vancouver World Rugby Sevens Series tournaments before returning to the Bulls in March.

The 27-year-old is expected to play at least eight matches in Super Rugby, after the the Pretoria-based franchise reached an agreement with SARU.

Well this is good news!

 

[TheOvalBall]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/hougaard-to-feature-for-bulls-20160201



Well this is good news!

I like Hougie. He should be the permanent 9 at the Boks.

 

[SomeOke]

I like Hougie. He should be the permanent 14 at the Boks.

Fixed.

 

[unrated]

Mark my words Hougaard is going to be great in this years super rugby competition. The extreme sevens fitness and fine tuning is bound to help him.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Mark my words Hougaard is going to be great in this years super rugby competition. The extreme sevens fitness and fine tuning is bound to help him.

That's my wish! As I am not a Rudy Paige fan. But as I'm typing this, I realise that poor old Hougie is in a predicament, as he plays in the positions where the Bulls have to play players of colour to ensure they keep up with the requirements by SARU. Wing or Scrum half, either position is fine by me for him to play, but I think he will be stuck on the bench most of the time.

 

[Pampas]

If we can't get 3 teams into the play-offs with our advantages over Los Jaguares (more games in SA and los Jaguares are brand spanking new to the comp) then that's our problem. Aus and NZ are also not garuanteed more than 1 team in the finals. The likeliest result is 3 for NZ, 2 for Aus, 3 for SA. If anything the setup favors us IMO. If Argentina get in then more power to them and it'd serve the likes of the Sharks right for not getting their house in order. If NZ end up getting 4 teams in at the Aus conference's expense then that's fair reward to them for better talent/coaching/recruitment/management etc.

Well said.
I know it looks fair for NZ, AS and SA because the three of them have the chance to put 3 teams in the finals, but it may no be the best for Los Jaguares, since they need to get between the best 3 of 8 to qualify, whereas in Eurasia conference you need to be between the best 5 of 10 to qualify.
However, I reckon the quality of the Eurasia teams is greater than the ones in the SA conference, so that may be the factor that gives balance to the equation.

 

[unrated]

Getting more optimistic about the sharks chances this year. I still do not rate Gary Gold as a good coach. I Believe he will be better served as a full on director of rugby working with youth and scouting structures.
Robert du Preez is exciting but the proof will be in the first 5 Super rugby matches to see if he was able to influence the attack of the sharks. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Omar Mouneimne who is the new defence coach is relatively unheard of in South Africa and all i know is he worked under Nick mallet as the defence coach of the Italy national team. Our defence was shambles last year and he will have his work cut out to improve it after Gold absolutely destroyed the great defensive platform that was set by Jake white in the year before Golds arrival. If player quality alone is something to go the sharks would have won many super rugby ***les by now. Unfortunately this is not the case and the coaches has been the downfall of the sharks in recent times (and injuries to an extent but that happens to most Super rugby franchises). Tactics and man management including player motivation has been lacking at the sharks. You hear every year on how South African teams work on attack. Mostly we dont see those results of greater attacking play and in some cases where the attack has beautifully flourished like at the cheetahs then the defense was severely lacking.

With all this said im hoping a strong Squad this year can win us the conference and hopefully to make the final
My Best Sharks XV is:
15 - Willie le Roux
14 - JP Pietersen
13 - Paul Jordaan
12 - Andre Esterhuizen (would have liked tim whitehead to sign but we will see where he ends up)
11 - Lwazi Mvovo
10 - Patrick Lambie
9 - Cobus Reinach
8 - Renaldo Bothma
7 -Jacques Potgieter
6 -Marcel Coetzee
5 -Ettiene Ooosthuizen
4 - Stefan Lewies
3 - Coenie Oosthuizen
2 -Kyle Cooper
1 -Tendai Mtawarira

Subs
Ruan Botha
Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Du Preez twins
Lourens Afriaanse
Franco Marais
Ruan Botha
Sbura Sithole ( he will start many matches at 13 this year) and will be injury cover at wing.

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