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[2016 Rugby Championship] South Africa v New Zealand (08/10/2016)

Does anyone else find it amazing that the All Blacks, in 6 games, are in +176 points differential, and the next closest is Australia with -23...All Blacks really messed up everyone. I believe first team to get the try bonus point in every game...just crazy.


There are some interesting statistics to come from this season

Points averages
After the June series against Wales, the ABs were averaging 40.3 points and 5.2 tries per game for 2016. On the defensive side, they concede ans average of 14 points and 1.7 tries per game. In any normal year, we would expect the differential to decrease with the competition being a bit tougher and all the global travel impacting on player fitness levels, but that isn;t what has happened. During the Rugby Championship, their point per game has increased to 43.6 points and 6.3 tries per game, while tightening things up defensively, conceding only 14 points and 0.8 tries per match

Toughest Opponent in the RC

Statistically, it was Argentina. With an average points difference of -26 and a tries for/against of 13:3. Next was Australia; -28 and 10:1, and the easiest opponent was South Africa, -35 and 15:1.
The All Blacks scored 38 ties and conceded only five, and three of those were to Argentina. I don't think anyone would question that Argentina played the best two halves of rugby against the AB's, the first half of the first match and the second half of the second match. If they can put two halves like that against us in one match, they would have a great chance of winning it.
 
crazy game. kinda doesn't make sense to see a springbok team play like that.

It was very odd, I couldn't get my head around that either.


For the All Blacks.
If we have a strong scrum its a bonus but its more important to get their forwards scrambling.

Thats key, tucker them out.

Our Locks are insane, I think Whitelock & Retalick are both individually and as a pair the best locks NZ has ever produced.

Hmmmm... a young Gary Whetton was pretty awesome and it's hard to go passed Brad Thorn...or the legend of Keith Murdoch, the man mountain... but they certainly are strong.
They are both deceptively quick and they both read the game well.

the question must be asked, has their ever been a more complete Lock in the history of the game to Brodie Retalick? His work on defense in both the amount of ground he can cover, gaps he fills and physicality he has, in the air, carrying the ball through the line and linking with the backs? His game is quite simply phenomenal. He was my man of the match and I think he is our front runner for IRB player of the year again.

He's damn fine, but, is he playing against the kind of calibre opposition that earlier locks had to pack down against? No offence to the Ockers and Saffers on here but these teams are not a shadow of their earlier greatness.

back Row was ok, Kaino had a relatively quite time while the game was still a bit of an arm wrestle, I doubt he's over that injury. Read was very good, he hit the line with some nice straight lines and good offloads. Todd worked hard but did make a couple of mistakes and got pulled early, sure wasn't a bad performance from him. Squire had a pretty awesome cameo and showed off his running game. He needed a good performance my concern is that what he has done well is really that wide running game/link player role. Neither he or Dixon have really fronted on the defensive line like Kaino or Sam Cane do, add Retalick to that list as well.

I thought Read's pace on the burst into the line was exceptional, shocked me to see the old fella charging like a wounded elephant.
I don't know anything about Matt Todd but if he's alright in Mr Hansen's book then he must be pretty good.

Perenara was very good again, another great experience for him and confidence builder. His pass may not be as good as Smith's at its best but he does seem to get the ball out faster than smith and of course he has a great combination going with Barrett.

He also is stronger around the ruck and gaps around the scrum.

Another Crotty like performance at 12, Mr. Reliable.

He's not doing anything to let anyone else in on his spot.

Kept that part simple so we can Discuss ALB. This kid has done more on attack in 3-4 games than Fekitoa has done in 3 years. At times he seemed to just wade through defenders, hes hitting gaps, offloading, pressuring kicks, doing well on defense he is the works right now. Its hard not to get so hyped about his potential. Crazy to see a guy who seems like he has been earmarked as an all black from like 14 years old or something like that make such an impact so early. Going to be tricky to manage him, I still think hes too young to just start every test match. he hasn't even had a full super rugby campaign as a starting player. Only got the chance to be a regular when Ngatai was injured this year. He wasn't as brilliant as Ngatai was for the chiefs but it was the first time he looked seriously good at super rugby level and showed genuine potential. Usually when blooding test mid-fielders for the All Blacks its about getting them up to speed, being patient and hoping they learn from their mistakes and gather experience. With ALB its more about keeping him fresh and keeping his feet on the ground, so far he has in a way been revolutionary in terms of what we have come to expect from a 13. he is giving opposition teams something else to worry about. When hes not scoring tries hes creating them...

Can't argue with that, I was worried about his defence against the big evil Bokke but he seemed to grow in this game and he is dynamite on the counter attack, he's got gas to burn and it could well be the end of Fekitoa unless he can show some spark that hasn't been evidenced at test level yet. It looks like Moala may also struggle with game time when the young fella is in this kind of form.
 
Is ALB a 13 though? I haven't seen much of him, hardly any to be honest, but I thought he suited the 12 role a bit better where his off-loading/passing game was of more use. IMO a mid-field of Crotty-ALB doesn't have enough X Factor (Still almost certainly the best mid field in the world ATM, but I think there are better options for the ABs). I know for now the 12 shirt belongs to Crotty, but eventually I'd like to seen ALB-Moala.
 
... my post hits home and nails you on the head.

Kiwi... You couldn't nail your grand mother.

Your inability to overcome the childish notion that your ungentlemanly boasting opinions must be forced onto others here has made you the least likeable individual to post on this forum.
You're a yardstick for trolling and no more.
You are a disgrace to the flag and decent Kiwi's on here that enjoy a friendly chat and some banter.
You don't even know much about rugby outside of who wins and going OTT to rub the losers face in it in a way that brands you as a loser.
You have no class, no grace and your incessant repugnant tone is why you have no friends, and thats why you continue to troll these forums, it's all you have.

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I still think Eddie Jones is planning to drag the AB's into a tight game which would be decided by kicking penalties. We are yet to see if England are good enough to do that but that has to be seen as the chink in the Armour right now.

It's Eddie Jones only option.
England great strength is still their pack and their kicking game. Their bench is strong in pack subs but not in the backs.
They have a great history of being game stranglers and they shut Aussie down effectively in Aussie earlier this year.
The AB's are young and inexperienced at this time and haven't been together as long as the English team.
It's not rocket science that Jones would try to strangle us up front, and then hope that the English backs get a chance to put their foot down once Farrell had kicked them into a buffer zone situation.
At Twickenham I think it would be a tight affair.
 
@The Jones Boy and @Facile

Can you guys PM each other? Really not particularly constructive slinging off at each other in an otherwise fairly focused game thread.

Appreciated.
 
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(The quotes aren't working for me) "At Twickenham it would be a tight affair." - Jones Boy

As an Englishman I disagree completely. The way the All Blacks are able to tear apart teams is terrifying and after yesterday's game I was simply in awe. 4 tries in 9 minutes. There is no way we, or anyone else can match or defend against an attack that clinical and electrifying. The fact that it's quite a young, inexperienced team is frankly daunting for the years to come. I'm just glad we aren't playing you this year...
 
@Larksea (don't feel like quoting your entire post but addressing the locks)

New Zealand's tight five (especially their locks) are really what separates them from other teams

New Zealand are the one team that have decided to put athletes in the tight five and have had great success, and other countries have just continued to put big boys there (not 100%; there are more and more athletic locks, but front rowers still remain large and immobile) and new zealand have made them pay for it
 
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Kiwi has been banned countless times Eidde, but he keeps getting on using a new IP address.
I'll be ignoring him from here on in.
 
@Larksea (don't feel like quoting your entire post but addressing the locks)

New Zealand's tight five (especially their locks) are really what separates them from other teams

New Zealand are the one team that have decided to put athletes in the tight five and have had great success, and other countries have just continued to put big boys there (not 100%; there are more and more athletic locks, but front rowers still remain large and immobile) and new zealand have made them pay for it

Agreed. There were offloads in this game from Rettalick and Coles in the tight five, and also from Read and Squire, that any back would be proud of. They've combined the knack of freeing the arms with a sixth sense of when the offload is on, and it is nigh on impossible to defend against. More often than not the offload is really flat as well, as opposed to a hopeful flick back to where some teammates might be. I can't quite work out how they make it work but they sure do, and it's great to watch.
 
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Agreed. There were offloads in this game from Rettalick and Coles in the tight five, and also from Read and Squire, that any back would be proud of. They've combined the knack of freeing the arms with a sixth sense of when the offload is on, and it is nigh on impossible to defend against. More often than not the offload is really flat as well, as opposed to a hopeful flick back to where some teammates might be. I can't quite work out how they make it work but they sure do, and it's great to watch.

This isn't something that is brought up enough... the all blacks seem to always be running the same support lanes so the ball carrier knows exactly where to toss it. With other teams you just see high passes that give their teammates time to run into because they have no idea.

It really is something to take in as a fan, really is next level.
 
With Boks we can point directly at the quota system and the current Bok coaching personnel (AC looks waaaaay out of his depth) getting back players like Pollard will help their cause as well. Morne Steyn can kick goals but he's not worth Pollards bootlaces when it comes to running a backline.

SARU should never have sacked Heineke Meyer. People seem to have forgotten that South Africa were not that far behind us under Meyer; they were on the improve, and in his last four matches at the helm against us, he had a win and three losses by 4 points, 7 points and in the RWC semifinal, 2 points. SARU failed to learn the valuable lesson from England and the All Blacks in retaining their head coach after not winning the world cup.

You're right Jonesy, this guy Coezee is out of his depth; a loss against Ireland that could easily have been two losses, a scratchy win against Los Pumas that could also have gone the other way, and a lacklustre bullying, kick and chase win over the Wallabies that only works against them because their forwards are soft. They tried the same game plan against us and got spanked for their trouble. And whoever is their defensive coach needs to learn two words.... "rush defence". Having your back line shuffling across might work against the Wallabies, but it will never work against the All Blacks who probably make more gain line metres than any other team in the world. The Bok midfield defence were continually being turned out-to-in the second half, allowing the All Black backs to run at their weak shoulder - Peranara's second try and Barretts second try both at least partially resulted from defenders being turned inwards.

With the Wallabies its a forward pack issue,...

Yep. As I said earlier, in the thread, the Wallaby forwards are chocolate soldiers (they melt when the heat gets turned up). They try to make up for that by putting in the cheap shots, high tackles and crafty punches like they did against us in the Wellington test. There is no doubt in my mind that they knew they were never going to win that match, and their behaviour was a plan to limit the score against them by drawing the All Blacks into their malarkey. In doing that, they forgot to play rugby. If they put all that energy into trying to actually play the game, with positive aggression, they would do a lot better. I hope that if they try that rubbish at Eden park, the All Blacks don't respond, and instead, have Read reminding the referee and ARs to watch for the off the ball stuff.

they need a few world class players in key areas (front row props and no.8 in particular) they could also do with a genuine 1st five in the mould of the great Stephen Larkham.

I think you have nailed the two main issues.

1. Pocock is not, never has been, and never will be a No.8. He is not a ball player like Read or Whitely. Pocock is a specialist openside flanker, and that is where he should be playing. They would be better off with Fardy at No. 8.

2. Time to kick Quade to the kerb. He's just no reliable enough. Also, Foley is just an average #10, and even lower than average at #12. IMO, Matt Toomua is the best #10 in Australia (excepting Christian Lealiifano who is out with severe illness and might never return to the game.

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@The Jones Boy

You are by quite some distance one of the worst posters on these boards.

Your over the top modest posts displays your stupidity and eagerness to try be 'diplomatic' and wanting to be a 'good bloke'. It's impossible for you to make a decent pre-match analysis because you're too busy trying to act like a 'great modest kiwi' rather than actually processing the information and evidence at hand to get an educated well rounded opinion. You are full of euphemisms and BS and ramblings about irrelevant history.

It's embarrassing and make for awful cringe worthy reading. One of the worst was that Welsh prediction you made in the first test series in NZ. Predicting they could beat the All Blacks. Where is your head at? Really.


Hi Kiwi, ya' rescidivist sockpuppet ya'

Trollin' again I see!
 
SARU should never have sacked Heineke Meyer

He had Hansens number as well. Knew how to contain NZ and keep the AB's honest more than any other coach in World Rugby.
 
Ahhh, Jeeeez. Just downloaded and watched the full game. Am I the only kiwi that felt a little 'upset' at seeing the Boks so humiliated? Strauss at the end of the game? Not good. And this from someone who was bang behind that Hewson kick in '81. Sat amongst a bunch of saffers. Never celebrated so much in my life.
That, yesterday, was not good though. They must come back. Quite how, I don't know. If there is no Boks, what is the point of rugby? It's not like there is anyone else......no, best not go there!
Hopefully they sort it out at some stage. The greatest rivalry in world rugby cannot die like this. Come on you chaps, get a grip!
 
TBH what was more upsetting to me was the sight of the SA 'Minister of Sport and somethingorother' going through beforehand and shaking every players hand. If I was in a player's shoes I don't think i could bring myself to shake hands with someone that is ruining the sport in the way that he is. He looked so damn self-important and arrogant, all while he lets his political and personal agenda tear the sporting pride of the nation apart. PICK ON MERIT. That applies to both coaches and players.

Sorry if this should have gone in the quota catch-all thread.
 
Well, at least I can now say I wasn't at the worst beating we received from the All Blacks in SA. Glad that monkey is off my back now.

Such a humiliating loss, and that after we were basically still in the game in the first half.

The second match in a row where we didn't score a try, even with an interception. How poor is our backline?? And I think the first man to go is our backline coach, Mzwandile Stick. There is clearly no structure, no innovation and just poor decision making.

It was also a pity that Francois Louw got injured in the first half. We lost the ruck areas from that point on. Kriel struggled playing the openside flanker role. And yet again, Warren Whiteley disappeared from the game. He is not our answer at no. 8. He is only effective when we have the ball and play attacking rugby. But on defence, he's nowhere.

Bring Back Duane Vermeulen!!

Well Done All Blacks! thankyou for demolishing us. I hope this will start the process of getting our rugby back to it's former glory days.
 
TBH what was more upsetting to me was the sight of the SA 'Minister of Sport and somethingorother' going through beforehand and shaking every players hand. If I was in a player's shoes I don't think i could bring myself to shake hands with someone that is ruining the sport in the way that he is. He looked so damn self-important and arrogant, all while he lets his political and personal agenda tear the sporting pride of the nation apart. PICK ON MERIT. That applies to both coaches and players.

Sorry if this should have gone in the quota catch-all thread.

He probably loved every minute of it. Seeing his work being realised. And he probably has the easiest job in the world for a politician.
 
Well this series was a new high watermark of dominance for the ABs...

This past few years has been so thoroughly dominant it's reminding me of the Aussie cricket team through the 90s and early 00s when they won 3 WCs in a row - awesome side, but even as an Aussie growing up I kinda lost interest in cricket because it just wasn't ever a contest and I kinda wonder if it's getting a little boring for Kiwis now.
 
Well this series was a new high watermark of dominance for the ABs...

This past few years has been so thoroughly dominant it's reminding me of the Aussie cricket team through the 90s and early 00s when they won 3 WCs in a row - awesome side, but even as an Aussie growing up I kinda lost interest in cricket because it just wasn't ever a contest and I kinda wonder if it's getting a little boring for Kiwis now.

Well, the ABs have been the only team to play any quality rugby this RC, so as a kiwi, I watch it in awe.

The other 3 teams have been disappointing. Especially South Africa and Australia. Majority of the non All Black matches were not of any quality. Australia gradually improved, however by how much remains to be seen and we will find out in a fortnight.
 
Well this series was a new high watermark of dominance for the ABs...

This past few years has been so thoroughly dominant it's reminding me of the Aussie cricket team through the 90s and early 00s when they won 3 WCs in a row - awesome side, but even as an Aussie growing up I kinda lost interest in cricket because it just wasn't ever a contest and I kinda wonder if it's getting a little boring for Kiwis now.

The Lions and England tests should provide some entertainment. England with another year under Jones are just going to keep improving and will give them a better game than what SA/Aus are providing.
 
We have a team of very good players with loads of talent. They are just low in confidence at the moment and need some self belief to be instilled back into them. There however are two problems holding this team back:The defence coach and the attack coach. Both are hopelessly out of their depth and have to be replaced before the end of year tour, or they have to pull their socks up very quickly. In nine test matches so far this year, the Boks only scored 15 tries and conceded 27!
 
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