[2016 Rugby Championship] South Africa v New Zealand (08/10/2016)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Growthpoint KINGS Park, Durban
Time: 17:05 CAT (SA, GMT+2)

Referee: Jerome Garces
Assistant Referees: John Lacey & George Clancy
TMO: Jim Yuille​

Teams

South Africa: 15 Pat Lambie, 14 Francois Hougaard, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Oupa Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Vincent Koch, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Julian Redelinghuys, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Willem Alberts, 21 Jaco Kriel, 22 Lionel Mapoe, 23 Willie le Roux

New Zealand: 15 Ben Smith, 14 Israel Dagg, 13 Anton Lienert-Brown, 12 Ryan Crotty, 11 Waisake Naholo, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 TJ Perenara, 8 Kieran Read (captain), 7 Matt Todd, 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Joe Moody

Substitutes: 16 Codie Taylor, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Liam Squire, 20 Ardie Savea, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Lima Sopoaga, 23 George Moala

 

[nik]

In the past 4 years this fixture in the RC would prove to be one the best games of the season. One can only hope it lives up to its previous epic clashes. How things have change for Springboks in a short period of time.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Piet van Zyl, Malcolm Marx and Damian De Allende has been called up to the Bok squad for this match.

So far Rudy Paige is the only player that is definitely out of the test with concussion. Other players that are in doubt are Bryan Habana, Jesse Kriel and Pieter Steph Du Toit.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-sweating-on-fitness-of-several-players-20161002
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/van-zyl-replaces-paige-in-bok-squad-20161003
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/de-allende-marx-rejoin-bok-camp-20161003

 

[Sotavalta]

Piet van Zyl, Malcolm Marx and Damian De Allende has been called up to the Bok squad for this match.

So far Rudy Paige is the only player that is definitely out of the test with concussion. Other players that are in doubt are Bryan Habana, Jesse Kriel and Pieter Steph Du Toit.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-sweating-on-fitness-of-several-players-20161002
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/van-zyl-replaces-paige-in-bok-squad-20161003
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/de-allende-marx-rejoin-bok-camp-20161003

Personally I don't care about Piet van Zyl and Damian De Allende. I just really hope that Bryan Habana, Jesse Kriel and Pieter Steph Du Toit are going to be fit to play.

Malcolm Marx I am not entirely convinced about. I know he is a very good player but I just did not see it in the one match he played, but I know he deserves another chance.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Personally I don't care about Piet van Zyl and Damian De Allende. I just really hope that Bryan Habana, Jesse Kriel and Pieter Steph Du Toit are going to be fit to play.

Malcolm Marx I am not entirely convinced about. I know he is a very good player but I just did not see it in the one match he played, but I know he deserves another chance.

Being a bit harsh on Marx??

He's still a kid and made his debut against the All Blacks of all teams, IN New Zealand. Surely the lad had his nerves in that match, he even admitted that his only 30 minutes of international rugby was just a blur.

I personally think he will be our next prime choice for the hooker position. He's big, fast, strong ball carrier, can poach at rucks and very good at the scrums. He just needs to work on his lineouts, and work with the locks too.

For me, I hope PSDT and Kriel are fit. If Habana is not 100%, then we can play Hougaard and Kriel/Mapoe on the wings, which might give us a little bit more fire power. Habana has been a bit slow in my view.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What I'd have liked to see (De Klerk, Pollard and Combrinck would be in the mix if fit);

9 Hougaard
10 Lambie
11 Habana
12 Janse van Rensburg
13 Mapoe
14 Le Roux
15 Kriel
(Assuming Habs and Kriel are fit of course)

Marx was awesome in his debut if you discount the line-outs. Pretty crucial I know but its something that can be remedied. I know he was only 1 of three hookers who did duty for the Lions but the Lions had a top functioning line-out. Its just a case of getting rid of the nerves and getting on the same page with his new locks. Strauss is on his way out to join Bismarck 'in the overseas' so now is the time to get our next man in and that is Marx without a doubt.

 

[unrated]

Forgive me if i just mention stuff that constantly get repeated.
Under HM we had a pretty good win record. Then the fans thought "hey!we are winning but it can be better" So everyone pushed for expansive rugby. HM came and went and now we have come full circle with AC . Winning is the most important he does not care about the style change we have been working on for the last 5 years. We have made no progress in the last cycle and are back where we came from. I dont know if im happy about just accepting wins again and throwing away progress made in the last few years. The issue stems from taking risks. By taking risks the product looks more attractive but we risk exposing our defence too much. Under AC you will see we will kick the ball into opposition territory from our own 10-5m line. This puts the opposition under immense pressure but also gifts them possession over and over for them to keep trying to pick the holes in the defence.
We should really be trying to run from deeper. I dont buy this stuff from AC that says expansive rugby is just a fairy tale its just how risky your approach is.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Rugb...nning-more-important-than-how-we-win-20161003

 

[TRF_heineken]

The only problem with that is that nearly every international team nowadays use a rush defence, and by running from deep, you are vulnerable on being tackled behind the advantage line and then turning the ball over. Players like Lambie and Pollard and to some extent even Jantjies use the chip kick to exploit the gaps behind the rush defence, so inevitably, kicking from hand when having a backline run from deep is sometimes a better option.

But, the problem is that our forwards are big and burly, so we use the running flat and having the big guys run at the opposition to try and suck in more defenders to bring them down. That is something that we have always done, and it has worked.

I honestly hate the idea that we must play like the All Blacks. We aren't the All Blacks, and we shouldn't play like them, we should play like springboks! we can still play attractive rugby without losing our brand. We can even play running rugby by using our own brand. We've done it in the past and we can do it again.

AC has tried the left field idea of mixing Lions Rugby with Bok Rugby, and it didn't work. He has to go back to the drawing board, and last week was just the starting point in my view of what can happen. If we play the right players and use their strengths we will play attractive rugby. It's just a matter of execution and understanding.

 

[Sotavalta]

Being a bit harsh on Marx??

He's still a kid and made his debut against the All Blacks of all teams, IN New Zealand. Surely the lad had his nerves in that match, he even admitted that his only 30 minutes of international rugby was just a blur.

I personally think he will be our next prime choice for the hooker position. He's big, fast, strong ball carrier, can poach at rucks and very good at the scrums. He just needs to work on his lineouts, and work with the locks too.

For me, I hope PSDT and Kriel are fit. If Habana is not 100%, then we can play Hougaard and Kriel/Mapoe on the wings, which might give us a little bit more fire power. Habana has been a bit slow in my view.

Yes I agree I might be a bit harsh...I am just sick of losing. I do agree with you that Marx is going to be the future. I know Habana is getting old and slower, but he is still for me one of the best wings we have.

 

[unrated]

The only problem with that is that nearly every international team nowadays use a rush defence, and by running from deep, you are vulnerable on being tackled behind the advantage line and then turning the ball over. Players like Lambie and Pollard and to some extent even Jantjies use the chip kick to exploit the gaps behind the rush defence, so inevitably, kicking from hand when having a backline run from deep is sometimes a better option.

But, the problem is that our forwards are big and burly, so we use the running flat and having the big guys run at the opposition to try and suck in more defenders to bring them down. That is something that we have always done, and it has worked.

I honestly hate the idea that we must play like the All Blacks. We aren't the All Blacks, and we shouldn't play like them, we should play like springboks! we can still play attractive rugby without losing our brand. We can even play running rugby by using our own brand. We've done it in the past and we can do it again.

AC has tried the left field idea of mixing Lions Rugby with Bok Rugby, and it didn't work. He has to go back to the drawing board, and last week was just the starting point in my view of what can happen. If we play the right players and use their strengths we will play attractive rugby. It's just a matter of execution and understanding.

I agree that we should play our own brand of rugby and not look to emulate any other nation. And we can keep the physical approach and all the traditional strengths but a top team should never play conservatively. We should have an aggressive attacking philosophy. Its comparable to a weak football team having a park the bus approach and just booting everything away that comes close to their goal versus a top team playing with an attacking approach constantly hovering around the opposition goal area.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I agree that we should play our own brand of rugby and not look to emulate any other nation. And we can keep the physical approach and all the traditional strengths but a top team should never play conservatively. We should have an aggressive attacking philosophy. Its comparable to a weak football team having a park the bus approach and just booting everything away that comes close to their goal versus a top team playing with an attacking approach constantly hovering around the opposition goal area.

I agree 100% with you. But if we look at the top teams and how they score tries, most of it is from a great defensive effort where the ball was turned over and they score on the counter attack.

 

[Sker]

What I'd have liked to see (De Klerk, Pollard and Combrinck would be in the mix if fit);

9 Hougaard
10 Lambie
11 Habana
12 Janse van Rensburg
13 Mapoe
14 Le Roux
15 Kriel
(Assuming Habs and Kriel are fit of course)

Marx was awesome in his debut if you discount the line-outs. Pretty crucial I know but its something that can be remedied. I know he was only 1 of three hookers who did duty for the Lions but the Lions had a top functioning line-out. Its just a case of getting rid of the nerves and getting on the same page with his new locks. Strauss is on his way out to join Bismarck 'in the overseas' so now is the time to get our next man in and that is Marx without a doubt.

Almost my team as well, but I'd like to see Goosen play 13 and Frans at 12

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Go New Zealand!

There we go, balanced out the thread a bit.

 

[eidde]

Picking the AB's backline for this one is close to impossible for me. I'd Say A Smith will return, but 10 could see Sopoaga slot in if Barrett needs a rest. Centres could be almost any combination of Crotty, Moala, ALB and Fekitoa - there's no real compelling reason not to pick any of them except for maybe Fekitoa, and even then he could well be given the right of reply to ALB's efforts last week. Naholo's re-entry could push out any of the back three - maybe Dagg, less likely Savea, but possibly Smith if he's in need of a rest. Or maybe Naholo will warm the bench this time.

What I am coming to is I truly have no idea who Hansen is going to pick here...... but I'm sure those more experienced TRFers would have already ouja boarded Hansen and will have the team sussed.

EDIT: Spelling pedantics

 

[Larksea]

Traditionally this has always been the biggest game of the year in terms of Tri-nations/RC rugby. All Blacks vs SA in SA.

I think this is a game that the AB would have been building towards for some time.

Travel will be a factor, I understand that the trip from Argentina was 36 hours or something crazy like that. All things considered it probably takes 2-3 days out of preparation. In contrast the Boks have been at home for the last 2+ weeks so they should be in their best shape and have ideal prep.

Selection for the AB's is going to be interesting now the Selectors finally shaked things up a bit and gave a few guys a run and a few others a rest.

It seems like Kaino is going to be right for this game. I doubt he will be 100%, his injury looked painful and its to his shoulder as well and that is basically his game right there, is it worth sticking him on the field with a shoulder injury when what he does is basically smash his shoulder into things? The flip side is that this is the game we need him for. I would be much more comfortable with Shields in the squad covering for Kaino. Squire & Dixon simply haven't looked like being genuine cover for Kaino Yet.

One guy who did step up in that role was Tuiulotu. I think he really delivered a Kaino-like performance last weekend so he needs to be in the mix.
Squire looked like he was chasing the ball a bit while tui was getting himself set in the right positions to make telling dominant tackles, as well as covering when needed.

I think we all want to see more of ALB but I can see Fekitoa coming back in. We will lose a lot on attack from that position but Fekitoa should at least have fresh legs and be reliable & physical on defense. Tough call after ALB had such a big game last week. Had a major part in 4 trys and really a lot of what the AB's did well on attack revolved around him. he is only 21 and needs to be managed, hes had a very sharp rise to the top after coming in as injury cover.

He will likely take that bench spot though and McKenzie will drop out. Mckenzie did fine last game I think people have over-reacted to his performance. yes it took him a while to get into the game, yes he missed a tackle. He was bumped off a couple of others but still did enough to stop the carrier from getting through the line. When he got more into the game he made some good tackles, one try saver and he would have been credited with a try assist if Julian Savea hadn't completely fluffed the finish. Keep in mind this was all done on debut with the All Blacks under the most pressure they have had this year 20 of his 30min we were down to 14 and lots of AB's missed tackles during that time not just him, I think he looked more composed the longer he was on the field. For a Debut that is easily a pass mark.

back to status quo for Julian, he looked back out of form again. Let a few kicks to him bounce when they could & should have been taken on the full. was put into space a number of times with one to beat and either went out or lost possession and then fluffed the finish McKenzie handed him. I think the cycle is starting to repleat itself again, he will go back out of form for a while and his selection will eventually again come into question and at that stage he either will or wont have another big game score a couple trys and everyone will be like SAVEA's BACK!! Again for the 3rd or 4th time?

The joker in the pack being that Naholo could be back? Could we see Naholo at 14 & Dagg move to 11?

Expect Aaron Smith to be back, I think resting him against Argentina was to enable him to focus on this game and be fresh. Boks will probably target him.

 

[nzlizard]

Back line I would like to see is

9. A Smith
10. Barrett
12. Crotty
13. ALB

11. Dagg / Naholo
14. Naholo / Dagg
15. Smith

To be honest Dagg has been amazing this year on the wing and deserves to start over Savea.

Subs to be

TKB
Sopoaga
Moala / Savea

 

[George Ford]

Yup, this is always the big one for the SH rugby calendar. Springboks v All Blacks in SA.

I'm sure Hansen & Co targeted this fixture with a matchday squad in mind since the schedule was released, it being the penultimate match leading up to emulating that tier-1 nations consecutive wins record.

Therefore selection should be a no-brainer for them. They will most definitely go for experience and the strongest combinations that has worked best for them so far this season. Even if the Boks performance of late has been poor, not selecting your best available team would be a slap in the face of all the preparation going into this game.

That means A. Smith back in for Perenara and I think Fekitoa will be reunited with Crotty in midfield. That potent back-3 combo of B. Smith, Draggz & Savea should also resume duty, and Barrett will be given a his 1st start as pivot for this occasion.

Up front, Kaino made sure to be ready for this one too; its only Sam Cane's injury that puts a slight bud in the plan, but any of A. Savea, Squire or Dixon should find no problem slotting into that back-row. Think Savea will get the nod to start. Tight-five: Whitelock & Retallick, Franks, Moody& Coles upfront.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Massive Game for the AB's.
This will be a knock 'em down drag 'em out old fashioned test match and the Bokke die hards will be up for this.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Perenara to start, Aaron Smith suspended for 1 game after joining the Mile High Club...

 

[die_mole]

Perenara to start, Aaron Smith suspended for 1 game after joining the Mile High Club...

Booooooooo... let the boys play I say