[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs. Wales (12/03/2016)

[jehoida hodges]

Not at all.
Gatland's gameplan is predictable and turgid.
He is too serious and defensive. This transfers to the players. it is all far too intense etc etc.
Gatland - his personal qualities are transmitted to the team as are his limited ex-prop playing qualities.
One-dimensional and defensive.
Bloody ironic that the only time that we revealed our true rugby instincts was when we HAD to !! - the ball started flying around and the Welsh wizards started spinning their magic.
Gatland won't change. He hasn't in the last few years. His limitations for me are all too apparent. End of his contract in 2019 can't come soon enough for me !!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Gatland's gameplan is predictable and turgid.
He is too serious and defensive. This transfers to the players. it is all far too intense etc etc.
Gatland - his personal qualities are transmitted to the team as are his limited ex-prop playing qualities.
One-dimensional and defensive.
Bloody ironic that the only time that we revealed our true rugby instincts was when we HAD to !! - the ball started flying around and the Welsh wizards started spinning their magic.
Gatland won't change. He hasn't in the last few years. His limitations for me are all too apparent. End of his contract in 2019 can't come soon enough for me !!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Gatland's gameplan is predictable and turgid.
He is too serious and defensive. This transfers to the players. it is all far too intense etc etc.
Gatland - his personal qualities are transmitted to the team as are his limited ex-prop playing qualities.
One-dimensional and defensive.
Bloody ironic that the only time that we revealed our true rugby instincts was when we HAD to !! - the ball started flying around and the Welsh wizards started spinning their magic.
Gatland won't change. He hasn't in the last few years. His limitations for me are all too apparent. End of his contract in 2019 can't come soon enough for me !!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Gatland's gameplan is predictable and turgid.
He is too serious and defensive. This transfers to the players. it is all far too intense etc etc.
Gatland - his personal qualities are transmitted to the team as are his limited ex-prop playing qualities.
One-dimensional and defensive.
Bloody ironic that the only time that we revealed our true rugby instincts was when we HAD to !! - the ball started flying around and the Welsh wizards started spinning their magic.
Gatland won't change. He hasn't in the last few years. His limitations for me are all too apparent. End of his contract in 2019 can't come soon enough for me !!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Gatland's gameplan is predictable and turgid.
He is too serious and defensive. This transfers to the players. it is all far too intense etc etc.
Gatland - his personal qualities are transmitted to the team as are his limited ex-prop playing qualities.
One-dimensional and defensive.
Bloody ironic that the only time that we revealed our true rugby instincts was when we HAD to !! - the ball started flying around and the Welsh wizards started spinning their magic.
Gatland won't change. He hasn't in the last few years. His limitations for me are all too apparent. End of his contract in 2019 can't come soon enough for me !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rich Taff]

He was a hooker.
This isn't the forum you're looking for.
They can go about their business.
Move along.
Move along.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Completely agree with your assessment of Gatland Mr Jehoida.
If Wales were encouraged to play the open game they can play, and do play, when they are let off the leash then they would be a world beating team on a regular basis.

Regarding the game, England are slowly on the way back from the abyss.
Jones is working it right to play to England's strengths and Hartley is coming into his own as captain.
A strong England is a good thing for world rugby, so is a strong Wales.
Two very different styles that make the international field richer for choice.

Wales were woeful; at least for 70 minutes of this game and that was in the main part due to England choking the life out of them successfully, and kudos to England for achieving that.
It was also due to the edicts coming from Gatland.
He has been at the helm for too long and it's time for someone with more vision to take Wales to a higher playing level, where they can definitely go, IF they get the right coach.
England on the other hand are going to keep simmering nicely as the younger players are nurtured and developed into a cohesive block.
Itoje continues to impress.
Grand slam on the cards now.
All hail Mr Jones as the new hero and his imperious captain Hartley.

 

[The5thOfficial]

.......... the game was only close because at their worst England somehow managed to be worse than Wales at theirs.

And it took less time for Wales to score their points. I rest my case. Non technically of course.

 

[Crapspray]

I think a little more credit should be given to Wales for the way they finished the match. I find it a little disrespectful from some on here to assume it was solely because of English subs that Wales scored those try's. I thought England were meant to have an unbelievable bench too? England were down to 14 men due to the pressure Wales were already putting them under, so I don't see that as an excuse either.

I largely disagree. Wales definitely got better, but I think it's far more useful for Wales to take a very critical look at the first 40 against Ireland and first 60 against England rather than tricking themselves into over-emphasising the end of the game. Credit for gaining a respectable margin is ignoring the elephant in the room.

From memory, England did something similar in 2014 to New Zealand (twice) and South Africa. Late tries against idling opposition turned comfortable wins for both nations into 1, 3, and 3 point margins. Counted for naff-all in the end.

I do think you hit the nail on the head with the final paragraph. Though I'd add Ireland, Argentina, and maybe Scotland to the list. Gatland seems to have (from outside eyes) played it safe and short-term this year at the expense of long-term development. Problem is Wales seem stagnant, didn't get the results, and are now behind the curve this World Cup cycle. It's not like Gatland can make up for lost time in New Zealand.

- - - Updated - - -

And it took less time for Wales to score their points. I rest my case. Non technically of course.

If you measure all the money in my pocket, I'm the richest man in the world.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. And you know it.

 

[Slamdunk]

Everyone in world rugby saw that today. A resurgent England beating a woeful Wales by FOUR points, just the four. I was embarrassed by Wales for 60 minutes but it's not the players fault entirely. They didn't turn up, we all saw that, but the Gatland game plan has had its day. Gatland said after the game that he told the players to look into themselves and solve it, they almost did.

Warrenball went out of the window and suddenly even Jamie Roberts was flicking inside passes, Jonathan Davies was unleashed and George North exploded into the game. Rhys Webb made a massive massive difference and the speed of service was up considerably, Priestland got the backs moving and Wales gave me hope, at the end of a shocking, abject display.

Gatland has to be brave now or I can see him moved on. Wales really can play rugby, we actually do have a cutting edge.

It's a great result for England, they deserved it, but at the end of the game, strangely I was more encouraged than I have been in a long long time.

Gatland surely has to see that next week is a chance to start the change. Wales will be around forever and if he wants to be part of it he needs to adapt and evolve like the game itself.

England clearly embrace the new way, strong defence combined with attacking nous and gusto.

It's clear Wales have the ability and players to do the same, if they are allowed.

Four point margin, and if Wales had been just a touch more patient at the end.........

Yes Francis was lucky but if that's the case then we all accept Brown should not have played right? Reckless? Was Brown NOT reckless when he hacked at Murrays head? Balance guys, balance.

 

[The5thOfficial]

If you measure all the money in my pocket, I'm the richest man in the world.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. And you know it.

Hey you're way more clever than me _ I dont even kniow what that means. I just know I watched a game of rugby that one team were losing by 16 points at half time, 19 points shortly after the restart and that then staged (again) another comeback with a try count of 1 - 3. Hmm. Yep they lost, but boy were there some twitchy bums out there.

 

[Thingimubob]

Difference is, Wales were in a position to win by the end. Shouldn't have been whatsoever, after the first 60 - 65 mins, but simple fact is we were. Had Joubert played on after north wasn't dragged into touch, who knows? (No I'm not saying that was why we lost, we lost because England were the better team for the majority of the game.)

Also, please say someone else has picked up they irony in the chat about Englands subs being the excuse for Wales coming back into it?
Huge chunk of the build up to the match was focused on how incredible the English bench was and how it would br the difference. The Welsh bench then ironically go on to make a bigger impact!

Biggest hope from the match is that lessons are finally learned in tactics and player selection! Cuthbert can't be selected again, he was utterly awful today. Baldwin was shown up (again) by Owens, who I'm convinced is a far better player.

 

[Rich Taff]

By the way.

North wasn't in touch.

Discuss.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

By the way.

North wasn't in touch.

Discuss.

Blame the ref. Also your 1 never scrummaged straight all game yet was completely ignored in favour of Marler, discuss.

 

[Thingimubob]

Blame the ref. Also your 1 never scrummaged straight all game yet was completely ignored in favour of Marler, discuss.

:lol: Are you suggesting Marler and Cole didn't get up to shenanigans galore at the scrum today?! Hell of a lot of fortunate calls went England's way in the scrum, so don't give me that rubbish.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

:lol: Are you suggesting Marler and Cole didn't get up to shenanigans galore at the scrum today?! Hell of a lot of fortunate calls went England's way in the scrum, so don't give me that rubbish.

No, I'm suggesting that Marler mostly scrummaged straight because he has a reputation yet your loosehead was coming in at stupid angles regularly and was never penalised for it. Hell, one of the penalties "conceded" by Cole had your loosehead driving perpendicular to the scrum.

 

[Rich Taff]

No, I'm suggesting that Marler mostly scrummaged straight because he has a reputation yet your loosehead was coming in at stupid angles regularly and was never penalised for it. Hell, one of the penalties "conceded" by Cole had your loosehead driving perpendicular to the scrum.

Was that because the only way he had to go, was to follow Marler?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who's sexier?

Dan Cole or Samson Lee?

Discuss.

(I'm really enjoying this thread)

 

[BraddersTheDog]

I find it strange that Wales weren't reduced to 14 for what looked like a gouge, not that you should have to rely on the opposition's foul play to see you to victory.

But it's still strange that, having seen it on the big screen, Joubert chose to give a penalty (thus acknowledging the foul play) but not a yellow/red card. Very strange imo.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

North not in touch and pass was forward.

Whoever's neck fat was lubed up enough. Bin them both and I'll decide.

Vc or Nineteenth official. Who should get tae ...

Who the hell cares. 25-21. Go home and think about what you've done.

 

[barthelemy]

England was the better team, Wales could not beat them during most of the match, They should win the tournament.

However, England is still missing consistency, the last 20 minutes were woeful.

On a french perspective, this is a good result. Hopefully, with a large win against Scotland (I'm not saying that it will be easy ), we could fight for the tournament final victory against England in Paris.

 

[Tony Manx]

The TMO clearly told the ref that with only the one angle, the video was inconclusive and that, because of there being only the one angle, the right call was a penalty only!

The ref could not see on the "big" screen as much as the TMO, whose screen is about the same size but slightly closer, who was not sure if contact was made with the eyes or the nose!

Hope the Citing official has a better view of whether:

- Francis was looking for or could even see Cole's face whilst lying on top of another player, and

- where contact was made or was intended to be made.

No one is denigrating the ability of the English subs but the timing and need for the changes made needs to be discussed, assessed and analyzed!

Perhaps Schmidt and Gatland should contemplate a job swap when the Welsh backs could be encouraged to be, well Welsh!! Gatland could then revert to 10 man rugby and play the way Ireland always have?!!!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Was that because the only way he had to go, was to follow Marler?

That would be pretty hard considering he was on the opposide side of the scrum to Marler, them both being looseheads...

Who's sexier?

Dan Cole or Samson Lee?

Discuss.

(I'm really enjoying this thread)

Cole, Lee's face looks too small for his head.

 

[dullonien]

I largely disagree. Wales definitely got better, but I think it's far more useful for Wales to take a very critical look at the first 40 against Ireland and first 60 against England rather than tricking themselves into over-emphasising the end of the game. Credit for gaining a respectable margin is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Certainly. We were very poor for 60 min today. We conceded needless penalties in the middle half of the pitch, butchered lineouts (though to be fair England competed very well), missed tackles, coughed up possession, and kicked poorly; all handing England territory and momentum.

We have been mostly poor all 6 nations, weren't great at the WC (which the injury crisis somewhat papered over), and weren't convincing last 6 nations either. We have well and truly stagnated, and it's criminal imo, given the talent at our disposal.

Another area of concern this 6 nations has been the breakdown. We have been very ineffective there, both offensively and defensively.