[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs. Wales (12/03/2016)

[Vieux Talonneur]

No data to back it up, but it feels like we're seeing more 10 point plus swings during sin bin periods. Punishment for what are generally technical offences shouldn't be having such a decisive influence on so many games. Might be time for a rethink.

Apart from the sin bin period, that was pretty good yesterday. Wales were always going to have some pressure in the second half and I thought we were soaking it up OK. My only real question is the use of subs - if you want people to have a positive influence you've got to give them a minimum of 25 mins to get into the rhythm of the game, otherwise they're just disruptive and throwing the raw LCD and Daly on during the sin bin were questionable calls.

 

[Thingimubob]

No data to back it up, but it feels like we're seeing more 10 point plus swings during sin bin periods. Punishment for what are generally technical offences shouldn't be having such a decisive influence on so many games. Might be time for a rethink.

Apart from the sin bin period, that was pretty good yesterday. Wales were always going to have some pressure in the second half and I thought we were soaking it up OK. My only real question is the use of subs - if you want people to have a positive influence you've got to give them a minimum of 25 mins to get into the rhythm of the game, otherwise they're just disruptive and throwing the raw LCD and Daly on during the sin bin were questionable calls.

Re think yellows because it almost cost England the game ? Not a chance. England gave away a fair few penalties in a very short space of time in the "red zone". Joubert had no choice but to go for the yellow. Wales were on the ascendancy in that period, hence why England were having to infringe, you take or change the yellow card, you run the risk of teams just infringing all day rather than let other team have a chance to get 7 points.

Seen plenty of teams survive with a man in the bin, even seen teams with 13 somehow get through without conceding!

It's a part of the modern game, every single team will have structures in place to cover the missing man.

Ha still can't help but chuckle at the change in opinion about the English subs

 

[valley commando]

Oh well France need to put about 40 clear points more than Scotland today and then beat England by a dozen to win the thing, come on France, easy easy.
Yes I can dream and sadly it is only a dream.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just because no one cares enough about Ireland to ****post in your threads

This thread has been an argument of who's more evil, Wales for throwing a forward pass, or England for not quite managing to throw a player into touch but getting away with it! There's also the who are the better team argument of "we gave you the first 65 minutes that's why you won" vs "We dominated 80% of the match, it was only close because we were mentally in the pub for the last 15". It's all ****post, I'm just making it sexy!

 

[Thingimubob]

Is there a forward pass? Can't see it myself (I am watching on my phone though which isn't ideal for looking at stuff like this) so if someone can point it out that'd be grand.

Also, only just realised how bloody beautiful North's try is. Why on earth can't we try stuff like that more often?! Was Wales 2005 esque handling wise!

 

[martinspoonboy1]

A player who hasn't been talked about much, but had (what i thought was) his best game in an England shirt was Anthony Watson. I think he pretty much won everything in the air. Solid in defence. Dangerous in attack, with a try to top it off. I was thinking of Watson as the longer term fullback, but he seems to be doing a decent job on the wing.

 

[Thingimubob]

A player who hasn't been talked about much, but had (what i thought was) his best game in an England shirt was Anthony Watson. I think he pretty much won everything in the air. Solid in defence. Dangerous in attack, with a try to top it off. I was thinking of Watson as the longer term fullback, but he seems to be doing a decent job on the wing.

He was excellent to be fair! Completely played Cuthbert off the park. The way he flipped Cuthbert over with a hand off was ridiculous.

 

[Ospreylian]

A player who hasn't been talked about much, but had (what i thought was) his best game in an England shirt was Anthony Watson. I think he pretty much won everything in the air. Solid in defence. Dangerous in attack, with a try to top it off. I was thinking of Watson as the longer term fullback, but he seems to be doing a decent job on the wing.

Agreed. He was fantastic. He's turning into a great all-round back 3 player. Every time he had ball in hand on the counter attack I was nervous, mostly because he was so good under the high ball all game. I think he took Williams on a couple of times in the air and beat him to it. Not many players can get the better of Liam Williams under the high ball at the moment.

I still don't particularly see what Nowell brings to the English attack. Surely there are lots of other wingers with a bit more flair the management could be bringing through? I don't watch the premiership enough at the minute to know. Any English posters have any suggestions?

What's the deal with Wade these days? I know he has been injured, but how likely is he to claim back his spot?

And obviously May when he comes back.

 

[Slamdunk]

Agree with some but as well as England played that first 40 Wales just were not at the races so it was a combination of both that resulted in the England league at the half , Wales came out more fired up the second half and gave England more problems and won the second half convincingly however it was too little too late .
England for the grand slam now then CHAPS?
Awfully good display old chum
How about some tea and crumpets.?

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Samson Lee obviously just the fact that he is Welsh ����

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New attack coach new direction fresh players kill cuthbert
On a lighter note I've been really impressed with priestland these last couple of games off the bench so much so that we look a far better attacking unit with him as the 10 than with biggar

Biggar is one of the issues. He kicked the long restarts too far and the short restarts too shallow. Restarts should put the opposition under pressure in their 22. Biggar was abject, irrespective of the try.

Joubert couldn't wait to blow when the touch judge called North out. Webb looked to be very close to breaking through. Joubert got more wrong than right. The English blocking was brilliant but he never saw any of it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Joubert couldn't wait to blow when the touch judge called North out.

Well yeah, referees tend to blow their whistle when the touch judge says someone's in touch

 

[TheSaffycen]

Right a few points from the game, now i'm kind of sober.
I thought the first half was one of the best I've seen England play in a while, but I still get annoyed when we are making inroads, breaking the line and getting up the pitch ad we only go for penalties. England should have gone for the lineout, take the risk, I know before it was a problem but we are already 16-0 up. Go for the jugular. This England team plays a little too safe for my liking but they get wins and that's all that matters atm.

Also Itoje lived up to the media hype. Great display.

 

[Thingimubob]

Well yeah, referees tend to blow their whistle when the touch judge says someone's in touch

Poor call either way by both officials.

Biggar looked good I thought? He was one of few Welsh player in the first 3/4 of the match to look like he gave a s*** about being there.

Admittedly we did look better with ball in hand when Priestland came on (though I think Webb's quick service helped him there), but I still don't trust his consistency or goal kicking.

Me and my mate thought of potentially they could look at finding a way of playing them both and getting the best of both worlds:

Priestland 10, Bigger 15, Williams on the wing

Positives: creativity at 10 from Rhys, Biggars goal kicking stays, Biggar rock solid under high ball, no Cuthbert. Can switch playmakers in attack too with Biggar joining the line

Negatives: Biggar not exactly known for his exciting running threat, lack of pace could hurt us in defence too. However, Cuthbert isn't offering much either way in the back 3, so are we losing that much?

Or

Biggar 10, Priestland 12, Roberts / Davies 13

Positives: Two playmakers, two kicking options, can easily switch them up when needed in attack.

Negatives: lose one of our usually excellent performers in Roberts / Davies. Also lose a lot in defence without that unit (though they weren't great yesterday) with Priestlands defence occiaisonally being suspect.

Probably won't happen, but next weeks a bit of a dead rubber against a likely weakened Italian side lacking confidence, wouldn't mind seeing something different. Not exactly gonna be a good idea to risk massive changes in NZ!

 

[johnmac99]

I don't know why Eddie Jones split the game 60/20 when we increased our lead in 66th minute and then the 68th minute with penalties. More like 70/10.

Wales got on top after this and forced the yellow card by their pressure in attack, in the 71st minute, and scored their late tries in the 75th and the 77th minutes.

Welsh fans are saying the North-in-touch decision was poor, which it may have been, but I will also say that the foul play-by-Francis decision was also poor. If it was a penalty for foul play, then it must have been a yellow card.

Would it have made a difference? Probably. But Eddie Jones needs to see that the amount of changes made in the midfield over a short period of time was a poor decision. Launchbury on at 78 mins.? FFS

 

[TommiG88]

Wales online have Reported racism in yesterday's game. Something about Lee being called a gypsy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

 

[Thingimubob]

Wales online have Reported racism in yesterday's game. Something about Lee being called a gypsy.

Yupp. Clearly picked up on the refs mic, English player (sounds like Marler) shouting "oh gypsy boy" which Lee reacts to with anger.

If it is Marler he should be in big trouble on two fronts. Punched / elbowed Rob Evans in the first half, then this.

Whoever it was should have the book thrown at them. Any sort of racial comment like that has no place on the rugby pitch.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wales online have Reported racism in yesterday's game. Something about Lee being called a gypsy.

is Gpysy boy racist? I don't know if Gypsies are a race or not?

Offensive yeh.

 

[dullonien]

I think it's unfair to judge Biggar on the first 60min, other than his missed tackle on Itoje that is. There wasn't much he could do to get a backline firing off slow ball, and when his outside backs were doing silly things (weird angles, going missing etc.).

Priestland made a difference, but he was helped by a forward back who were finally producing some quick ball at the breakdown, and the far quicker service from Webb.

I wouldn't mind seeing some other players tested at 10 though. Sam Davies and Patchell come to mind.

These are the changes I'd like to see going forward:

01 Rob Evans. Not quite as prominent yesterday, but wad roughly on par with Marler on the whole.

02 Ken Owens. Baldwin has been poor this 6 nations.

03 Samson Lee. Went ok yesterday, was unlucky imo not to force a couple more penalties scrum time. Joubert penalising Wales for wheeling when Hartley had stood up already close to the English try-line stood out for me.

04 Luke Charteris. Best lineout jumper we have.

05 Alun-Wyn Jones. Was very poor yesterday, but we know he'll bounce back.

06 Sam Warburton/James King. Shifting Sam didn't work in the first couple of games, but things have been no better since he moved back to 7.

07 Justin Tipuric. Get him playing from the start, and change the game plan to make better use of him. Speed the game up, move the opposition forward pack around and watch him flourish.

08 Taulupe Faletau. Always performs, but we'd get even more from him if we changed our style of play as suggested above. If another 8 comes through (Baker/Keddie) then I wouldn't mind seeing Faletau shifted to blindside.

09 Rhys Webb. No debate, one of the best 9's around imo.

10 Biggar/Davies/Priestland/Patchell?

11 George North. Give him the ball is space and watch him fly!

12 Scott Williams. Would add another dimension to out attack.

13 Jon Davies. Far better player when the attacking game plan gives him space to run.

14 Liam Williams/Hallam Amos/Eli Walker. Anyone but Cuthbert!

15 Leigh Halfpenny. Is fully capable of playing an attacking style if allowed to. Get him counter attacking and hitting the line outside the 13 channel.

16 Baldwin/Elliot Dee/Myhill. This position is up for grabs.

17 Nicky Smith. Looked good pre injury, and he's slowly getting back there.

18 ? Not convinced by Francis. Time to fast track Dillon Lewis/Leon Brown?

19 Bradley Davies/Jake Ball.

20 James King/Sam Warburton/James Davies.

21 Gareth Davies.

22 An outside half. Not sure which.

23 Is there space for Roberts on the bench? Not sure he covers enough positions to merit it?

 

[Mumbles119]

Obviously happy with an English win, but actually more relieved about how we are looking to be building slowly and surely. The higher results will not come immediately, but it certainly seems like a step in the right direction for every game we have. Getting very interested in the Australia tour now!
For England, the stand out performers were Itoje and Watson. Plus, I felt confident watching Farrell and I assume Eddie did too, choosing Farrell to stay and removed Ford.
Youngs is still a problem, and I think the back row is the next 'project area' for Eddie to work on. The Haskell/Robshaw temporary thing is running out of time.

Wales I thought were bemused by the control England had for the first 65mins, seemed to have a lack of urgency and almost were just expecting to overcome England. They did not seem to be able to adapt, however I felt Biggar, Faletau and AWJ were the standout performers for Wales in that first 65. With Faletau especially excellent for the full 80.

But, Priestland seemed to bring a better shape to attack than Biggar which probably was also due to the excellent Webb being back on the pitch too.

I really like watching Liam Williams, but I agree with @Thingimubob about having both Biggar and Priestland on pitch. Biggar would defiantly be more suited to full back out of the two, and then having Liam Williams on the wing in place of Cuthburt can only be a good thing right?
But then what to do with Halfpenny when he is back... ignoring the kicking aspect, who is better in attack Liam Williams or Halfpenny?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

But then what to do with Halfpenny when he is back... ignoring the kicking aspect, who is better in attack Liam Williams or Halfpenny?

Based on their respective time at 15 for Wales then Williams by about 500 country miles.