[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[goodNumber10]

^this

 

[ratsapprentice]

I know what you're getting at.
I do suspect that Manu's style of play flatters to deceive a little, it's full of fireworks but how effective has it really been?

I guess we'll find out when he comes back.

 

[j'nuh]

See up until the last two games I'd agree with you because England were showing a lack of penetration and going absolutely nowhere. However Ford-JJ-Watson have added the ingredients to make the backline spark back in to life. I'd almost forgotten what it was like to watch England backs who carve defences apart it's like being able to watch Jason Robinson again. So yeah stick Manu on the bench as plan B but I want to see backs who go around defenders, look to pass further outside and don't make complete hashes of overlaps. It's my main reason for wanting May out yeah he's a problem defensively but my concern is I don't like his decision making ball in hand and don't trust it.

Yeah, but Tuilagi is basically Burrell but good. Ford-Tuilagi-Joseph please.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah, but Tuilagi is basically Burrell but good. Ford-Tuilagi-Joseph please.

Well I personally wouldn't play Burrell and go with 36 or Eastmond and focus on decision making and distribution.

My worry of Manu is that he rarely distributes the ball and goes looking for contact. Yes he's brilliant at breaking the gain line when doing so and is good for some carries but that will work better against a tired defence when fresh. Burrell passes the ball more often which is why he'd get the nod from me if you want that kind of player....however he's injured currently and won't feature in the 6 nations and has been for some time. I wouldn't put him back as a starter instantly regardless.

 

[j'nuh]

13s in general don't make that many passes though. If you look through the Six Nations stats, nearly every 13 runs at least twice as much as they pass. The "ultimate backline move", from 9 to wing, rarely happens in international rugby. Attack often breaks down in the centres, and that being the case, it's quite nice having Tuilagi there.

 

[big ginger 8]

Boss trained with Leinster today, so looks like Reddan in on the bench.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yeah, personally I see the biggest challenge facing Lancaster in the next year or so being 'Can he accomodate Tuilagi to an increasingly settled and functional looking backline'.
Generally speaking I'm always rather surprised to see the degree of difference of opinion thereis over Tuilagi; we know his strengths and weaknesses, its whether wecan sort out the latter.
The 2012 South Africa tour was a sickening example of a player badly used / using himself badly. As ncurd said he constantly looked for contact and ultimately De Villiers schooled him saying, fine, you might bosh me once or twice but we'll still ensure the phase dies with you going to ground with the ball.

On the other hand, I do think he's a very good rugby player with a rugby brain, and the other part of me says give him an opportunity to play in a team where he's not the only bright light and see how he adapts to it. Brad Barritt had his best attacking game for England with Ford at 10, and he wasn't even in his usual position. I personally don't think there's any coincidence there at all.

 

[ncurd]

So you'd play him at 12?

Two of JJ's tries are of direct consequence of him looking to pass the ball or suggesting he might. If a player isn't looking to so you don't make the defence make decisions. Instead your relying on the player breaking the tackle or going round the defender and him missing it.

 

[Willodell100]

Just watched SL's interview on Rugby tonight & thought it was interesting he mentioned both Goode and Pennell as replacements for Brown this weekend.

Reading between the lines think he might just swing Goode's way but good news for Pennell and the Championship as well.

Again reading between the lines (I do that a lot!) it looks like Nowell might get the nod over May.

A little bit safer an option but I like Nowell, he's playing some of best rugby and rate his all round game highly and also with a back three of Nowell, Watson and Goode we will have three very safe pairs of hands under some guaranteed Irish Gary Owens.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

So you'd play him at 12?

Two of JJ's tries are of direct consequence of him looking to pass the ball or suggesting he might. If a player isn't looking to so you don't make the defence make decisions. Instead your relying on the player breaking the tackle or going round the defender and him missing it.

Not sure who you're adrressing . I'd love Tuilagi to play 12 but the jury is out regarding whether he has the ability... though I would argue signs of life were there to be seen when he played there alongside BOD for the lions.

 

[Maverick1987]

Not sure who you're adrressing . I'd love Tuilagi to play 12 but the jury is out regarding whether he has the ability... though I would argue signs of life were there to be seen when he played there alongside BOD for the lions.

Yeh I'd agree here Henry ! I've been quite a bit advocate of playing Tuilagi at 12 for some time . Obviously not outside Farrell though ^^ (sorry GN10) most of his rugby had been played in an unbelievably drab backline . As someone said earlier if he is ONE of the weapons not THE weapon he could really flourish .

Also I didn't get the idea Mike Brown would be out . Stuart just said he was keeping an open mind on the matter . I think I'll cry if Goode plays

But even more so if we win Mike Brown might not get back in and we could be stuck with Goode ... Well .... FOREVER !!

 

[msf]

Like I said, since we don't have a Greenwood to add some subtlety from 12, I would rather see us stick with Burrell and Joseph, but I don't see Lancaster doing that. I think Tuilagi will be on the bench initially, but as soon as we have one bad game he will be back in the team, rightly or wrongly. The best outcome is we keep playing well, Joseph keeps his place in the team and Tuilagi keeps Twelvetrees out of the match-day 22, although I think that will mean Farrell taking Cipriani's place to cover inside-centre. Anyway, since our centre combination against Australia consisted of Twelvetrees and Barritt, any combination of Burrell, Joseph and Tuilagi is going to be an improvement.

 

[Maverick1987]

Looks like Lawes could be back . That's a good thing for us Kruis has done nothing wrong but Attwood and Lawes make a second row to combat anybody

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I dunno, suprised as I am to say it, 12tress has not done very much wrong at all so far this 6N and done a fair amount right. I still don't trust him to maintain his current form but whilst he is in it, I'd like to give it the chance to potentially grow.

wrt Tuilagi at 12, I think he needs the Nonu treatment. He MUST develop other aspects of his game. Crashball is ok but I worry if he goes to 12, the ball will never get past him and then JJ will be completely out of the game. I would not be happy at all for Tuilagi to play like that and would not want him in the team if the ball is going to die with him every time. If however he can develop and passing and offloading game, now that could be interesting.

 

[Maverick1987]

I dunno, suprised as I am to say it, 12tress has not done very much wrong at all so far this 6N and done a fair amount right. I still don't trust him to maintain his current form but whilst he is in it, I'd like to give it the chance to potentially grow.

wrt Tuilagi at 12, I think he needs the Nonu treatment. He MUST develop other aspects of his game. Crashball is ok but I worry if he goes to 12, the ball will never get past him and then JJ will be completely out of the game. I would not be happy at all for Tuilagi to play like that and would not want him in the team if the ball is going to die with him every time. If however he can develop and passing and offloading game, now that could be interesting.

Yeh definitely . No one is guaranteed a place in this England team at the moment with the depth we have . Adding more strings is something that applies to every player we have imo . You sit static for too long and someone ends up taking your place

 

[Peat]

Tuilagi has been very effective and will continue to be effective - and I dare say that the prospect of Ford ahead of Farrell and an actual running threat at 12 will make him even more effective. Yes, his game is lamentably short of subtlety, but used correctly no one cares. You use him on crash ball to force the gainline, then leave him alone until you've got good ball at which point you bring him onto the ball at pace on a good line, let him tear through the half-tackle and congratulations, you have a line break. If your side is incapable of making something of those line-breaks, that's not his fault; even if he never, ever passes from them (which we know to be untrue), a strong ruck means you have fantastic attacking ball. Let the wingers attack off of that. Or shadow his line breaks.

Yes, it would be great if he passed a little more - probably a lot more if used at 12 - but the game will have to change a huge deal before he stops being effective at international level.

Does he get back in? I think you pretty much have to try Tuilagi-Joseph again. I'm not saying you'll get positive results, but you pretty much have to try it - assuming Joseph keeps this up. If Joseph does keep this up, I think he can hold onto the 13 shirt, but that's a big if. The public rush to anoint Joseph leaves me mildly uneasy tbh.

Excuse me for having respect for another team.
I support Ireland 100%, but pretending that England aren't an extremely good side at the moment will get you nowhere.

Don't mind him. People are more interested in banter than actual rugby at this stage of the week.

 

[lucky number 7]

I see an enormous amount of **** posts festering in this thread.
Typical 6N bandwagon troglodytes out for their few weeks basking in the glory of the 6N


Ireland will either physically dismantle England
Or Ireland will concede trys early and not have the firepower to pull back.

It's up to Ireland essentially. England as nice as they appear to be playing aren't going to win unless they come out all guns blazing and get some early scores then merely keep the scoreboard ticking.

But I can see England come undone when put up against our defense. Either that or I eat my words and we are blitzed by a genuinely potent attacking force.

 

[TommiG88]

I see an enormous amount of **** posts festering in this thread.
Typical 6N bandwagon troglodytes out for their few weeks basking in the glory of the 6N


Ireland will either physically dismantle England
Or Ireland will concede trys early and not have the firepower to pull back.

It's up to Ireland essentially. England as nice as they appear to be playing aren't going to win unless they come out all guns blazing and get some early scores then merely keep the scoreboard ticking.

But I can see England come undone when put up against our defense. Either that or I eat my words and we are blitzed by a genuinely potent attacking force.

Your arrogance disgusts me.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I see an enormous amount of **** posts festering in this thread.
Typical 6N bandwagon troglodytes out for their few weeks basking in the glory of the 6N


Ireland will either physically dismantle England
Or Ireland will concede trys early and not have the firepower to pull back.

It's up to Ireland essentially. England as nice as they appear to be playing aren't going to win unless they come out all guns blazing and get some early scores then merely keep the scoreboard ticking.

But I can see England come undone when put up against our defense. Either that or I eat my words and we are blitzed by a genuinely potent attacking force.

The Irony is too great.
But thank you for making this public appearance and bestowing upon us plebs your unrivalled six nations insight.

 

[The Jones Boy]

This should be a good watch, maybe not exciting but intense.
Ireland will be under the microscope against the big English pack.
How far have they come, will they be brittle under pressure. Can they score tries against the big teams and keep their lead effectively.
Joe Schmidt under the spotlight
His players under the blow torch.
Recent results would say that Ireland ae more than capable but here we are 6-7 months out from the RWC, lets see what is on display, game on, a Must watch.