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[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: England vs Ireland (05/09/15)

No **** - he was playing with an attacking non-entity inside him - that's the problem with Barritt.

Certainly don't think he either messed up that overlap or looked unthreatening - the tackler tackled him pretty much as soon as he received the pass.

Yeah, the missed overlap was more good defence than JJ's fault. I thought he looked threatening throughout, but Ireland were up on him very quickly every time, I think its simply that he's a known quantity now, so teams are going to look to pick him out specifically (which is much easier when the inside centre offers very little in attack).
 
Yeah - but the fact that the opposition are having to put effort into marking him is positive in itself.
 
Can't just give up Barritts defence and defensive organisation just to "Try" and make the backline an attacking machine, you need balance and Barritt is the balance for defence , were not Australia or New Zealand, we don't have a Ma'Nonu, SBW, Toomua or de'allende at 12, let's not kid ourselves that eastmond is an all rounded centre.. Yes Slade has 'potential' but you can't pin a WC campaign on potential..
 
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Do not put Toomua or De Allende in the same league as Nonu.

Ever again. They are 2 competent, good centres. Nonu is an all black great, there is a massive difference in class.
 
From what i hear Slade's defense at 12 is pretty good. Joseph organises Bath defense that contains Eastmond and Ford. Im not convinced Barritt brings enought to the table.

On Youngs correct me if im wrong but was one of our trys scored from a decent lineout and drive penalty then Ford tried the corner cross kick.

Lastly are we really going to start someone in the opening game of a RWC who has two caps a sub? Nope okay lets stop suggesting to start George then (whom Im fairly certain did not have a perfect lineout rate...)
 
Do not put Toomua or De Allende in the same league as Nonu.

Ever again. They are 2 competent, good centres. Nonu is an all black great, there is a massive difference in class.

You mean the same Nonu that has been pretty non existent in super rugby for 3 previous seasons to this one..
It's up for debate, I agree that Nonu is the best 12 in the world, but he is not the most rounded.
Toomua is the most rounded 12 in the world and every 12 should aspire to be like him, he has a kicking game that rivals most fly halfs, hugely physical and has a great running game .
To say that you can't speak about Toomua and de allande in the same breath is both naive and very one minded, yes Nonu is probably better but not by a country mile.. But of course that is your opinion and this is mine..
 
Defence mode activated upon seeing "Barritt not a threat to international defences".
 
From what i hear Slade's defense at 12 is pretty good. Joseph organises Bath defense that contains Eastmond and Ford. Im not convinced Barritt brings enought to the table.

I'm not sure anyone knows too much about Slade's defence at 12, due to him barely playing there. His defence at 13 has been very good though, including dealing with the physical units. It does remove every last source of crash ball from the attack buuuuut... so does playing Barritt really.

Also, who cares about Nonu's Super Rugby campaigns when he's been outstanding at international level?

As for Joseph, the challenge was always going to be to continuing to be effective once opposition defence coaches were focusing on him. The gaps get smaller as the rep gets bigger. But having Barritt as a partner can't help. He really should have been the last resort for England.
 
You mean the same Nonu that has been pretty non existent in super rugby for 3 previous seasons to this one..
It's up for debate, I agree that Nonu is the best 12 in the world, but he is not the most rounded.
Toomua is the most rounded 12 in the world and every 12 should aspire to be like him, he has a kicking game that rivals most fly halfs, hugely physical and has a great running game .
To say that you can't speak about Toomua and de allande in the same breath is both naive and very one minded, yes Nonu is probably better but not by a country mile.. But of course that is your opinion and this is mine..
I'll agree to disagree, I think Toomua is a better but more defensive Twelvetrees. I think he has an average running game, good kicking game and excellent defensive game. Poor ball in hand.

Nonu is Hernandez in reverse, great for National team, rubbish for club team.
 
I'm not sure anyone knows too much about Slade's defence at 12, due to him barely playing there. His defence at 13 has been very good though, including dealing with the physical units. It does remove every last source of crash ball from the attack buuuuut... so does playing Barritt really.

This - I think people take it as read, that his physicality in defence translates to physicality in the carry - it doesn't. He's not a positively weak carrier by any means, but he's not a threat.
Slade's defence has been very solid at 13 and 10 - so it's a reasonable assumption that it'll be serviceable at 12 at the very least. I agree though - until you see it you don't know.

I think JJ was pretty effective given the circumstances - he just wasn't making highlight reel breaks against a well set defence.
 
No **** - he was playing with an attacking non-entity inside him - that's the problem with Barritt.

Certainly don't think he either messed up that overlap or looked unthreatening - the tackler tackled him pretty much as soon as he received the pass.


Yeah - but the fact that the opposition are having to put effort into marking him is positive in itself.

That is true. I'm not saying he had a shocker, by any stretch, but he didn't do as much as usual. I'm judging him by very high standards, because he's a very good player, it goes without saying that he did lots of good things because he always does (including exemplary defence as ever) - even if today was his best, he's still the best outside centre England have.

I also agree that it's not his fault, Barritt's lack of threat of course had a big effect, but one of his great strengths for me is that he can turn slow static ball into better ball because he has the skill to take the ball standing still with two defenders on him, step and wriggle, cross the gainline and present.

On the overlap, I'd have to watch it again but my feeling at the time was that a) it was really excellent defence, I don't want to take that away from Kearney (I think it was Kearney?); but b) if JJ had come from 5 metres deeper he would've taken that out of the equation - he had the space to sit deeper and give himself time to get the pass away

I think JJ was pretty effective given the circumstances

Absolutely agree. Just saying he has set his own standards very much higher than "effective"

On Barritt - I'm hoping it was just first game back rustiness, but even his defence wasn't much to write home about today. If he's going to be picked he has to be making big, highlight-reel tackles consistently for 80 minutes a game to justify it because he's never going to earn his place on attack. Agree with Rats that people assume he's a battering ram because of his defensive physicality when he really isn't. To be honest I'm just resigned to accepting we simply don't have an inside centre without massive, glaring issues and one of them is just simply going to have to do. I suspect it'll be Barritt for this World Cup because the old truism goes that defence wins World Cups, but I think it's much of a muchness until the answer arrives. I'm not convinced by the #slade4twelve hype because as Peat said he doesn't play there. Not to say he couldn't pick it up quickly and it's a very exciting possibility for the future but Lancaster isn't going to be wasting World Cup training camp time to teach someone a new position. (Althoguh apparently he would use it to teach someone a new sport ... )
 
Barritt sort of is the last resort. At least with the training squad that was picked initially. I do wish Manu would employ a chaperone in world cup years to stop stuff getting out of hand.
 
Anyone got any stats for Barritt to see how he actually played? I thought he was the same as always , really average
 
Bit late in the day but....

Usually when a player does that it's obvious though - there's almost a standard process to it, crouch, bounce ball forward into ground and back into hands, stand up and move to penalty location. This incident didn't look like that, it really looked to me like he meant to pass the ball and it came out wrong.



I didn't see that. If it is indeed true it's really worrying, because it's another incident of a potential concussion being missed and the player playing on. If it was wooziness from a knock to the head which made him drop that ball - imagine he'd decided instead to snipe round the base, been tackled and taken another knock to the head on landing.

I saw the incident and actually thought that he'd run out of gas and remember thinking how on earth that could happen with all the fitness training they'd done?
 
The England Twitter calling Mike Brown the 'Bomb Defuser' after yesterday's performance, haha quality.
 
Whatever you guys say.......barritt is the No 1 no 12!!!
 

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