[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[TRF_heineken]

Twickenham, London (26/09/2015, 20:00)
Pool A, Round 2
Referee: Jérôme Garcès

 

[Ospreylian]

First post on the England V Wales thread!!!! :champion:arty::bananasex:

#SmallWelshVictory #GameOn #BringIt

 

[Willodell100]

A massive game and Wales have all sorts of injury issues going into this game which will make it hard for them to prepare properly.

England already have an advantage of an extra day so this is just going to compound Wales' problems.

Anyway enough about Wales. If I was SL my England team would be:

1. Joe Marler
2. Tom Youngs
3. Dan Cole
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Geoff Parling
6. James Haskell
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Ben Morgan
9. Richard Wiggelsworth
10. George Ford
11. Jonny May
12. Sam Burgess
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Rob Webber
17. Kieron Brooke's
18. Mako Vunipola
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Billy Vunipola
21. Ben Youngs
22. Owen Farrell
23. Henry Slade

2 changes to the XV and one to the bench.

I agree our scrum creaked against Fiji but I think it is mostly down to a lack of weight rather than anything more systematic.

For me Marler has been struggling with Youngs who isn't the best scrummager but I think with a bit more weight behind them in Launchbury & Haskell this will not be such a problem. Also just like to say they I thought, bar the scrum, Tom Youngs had a good game. He hit all but one of his line out jumpers and his ball carrying in the loose was excellent.

Tom Wood had an average game for me and what we lack in line out technician we gain in ball carrying & around dog in Haskell. This change is more for tactical reasons than anything else. My concern is the breakdown with Tipuric & Warburton sniffing around & this is another area where Haskell is better than Wood.

Tempting to get Billy Vunipola in there from the start for his last 20mins against Fiji but I think his impact off the bench is of more value. Also Morgan, after a quiet game, will be the better for another run out v Fiji and sure he will be even better v Wales.

I thought Ben Youngs had a poor night. After a few forgivable wayward passes early on his decision making was not good. He allowed the Fiji defensive set to trust in their drift because he did not threaten their fringe defence once. That is what he is best at.

If the game plan is to generate quick ball & get the ball into Ford's hands quickly then Wigglesworth is the scrum half to start. I've never been his biggest fan as he is on the slow side & not very dynamic but his box kicking is excellent and he has the most accurate and reliable pass of our 9s. I would bring on Youngs to threaten a tiring Welsh defence. His impact, like Vunipola brothers, is best from the bench.

It is a given that I've never been a fan of Barritt's but I understand why SL has stuck with him for the Fiji but after a really poor display I feel it is time to give Burgess his start.

Yes it is a risk but one I would take with the consideration that he knows the men either side of him very well. That midfield relationship is be a real advantage and because of this and Burgess's other more obvious attributes I would give him his first start.

Slade brings much needed flexibility when injury occurs and I will feel much more comfortable with him on the bench if we have an injury to a back three player.

 

[SelimNiai]

A pre emptive appeal

Please can we try as much as possible to not let this descend into a slanging match and focus on the game

Thanks

 

[Willodell100]

Couldn't agree more. That's why I like this forum so much.

Love good natured banter, hate the downright bigotry!

 

[brokenoses]

Nowell would provide better cover at 23. (he covers back 3 and 13) with Farrell at 10/12 cover. Im still yet to be convinced by May's defensive ability but I couldn't really justify dropping either of the wings, even though Nowell was pretty much nailed on before May decided to step it up. I would really like to see Burgess/Slade combo again but probably wont get a chance until Uruguay. I think its a mistake after the last performance but I think this weekend Lancaster will still put Barritt at 12 with Burgess at 23. I think Wood/Robshaw/BV to start with Haskell 20. I wasn't convince by either 10 against Fiji so I suppose its a matter of gameplan.

 

[MojoPin]

Wish it wasn't the case, but all the cards are stacked in England's favour at the moment - gonna be a long, tough game for Wales. We can do it I think but our advantages are few and far between - gonna take a few key players having the game of their lives to pull this off. Keeping an eye on Welsh media for fitness reports with fingers firmly crossed.

Anyways, injuries permitting - this is the team I would play...

1 G Jenkins
2 S Baldwin
3 S Lee
4 AW Jones
5 Charteris
6 S Warburton (c)
7 J Tipuric
8 T Faletau
9 G Davies
10 D Biggar
11 H Amos
12 J Roberts
13 S Williams
14 G North
15 L Williams

Subs: T Francis, K Owens, P James, M Phillips, R Priestland, D Lydiate, M Morgan

Tough choice between Lydiate/Warburton and Warburton/Tipuric here and I've gone for the latter. Tipuric is just playing too well to ignore and I don't see why we'd want to restrict him to a cameo appearance. Having Williams, Tipuric and North working on the right side of the field together is just too good an opportunity to pass up. In my books too Cuthbert gets nowhere near the squad - he's been a liability every game he's featured in. Amos on the other hand played well and Morgan provides a more versatile and exciting substitute. Phillips comes back in as a sub too - think he'd be very useful in a tight game where some toughness is needed as the game wears on. Lydiate is less exciting than Moriarty but will hopefully keep the defense solid when he comes on.

 

[AzaMatt]

A pre emptive appeal

Please can we try as much as possible to not let this descend into a slanging match and focus on the game

Thanks

i agree.

i will admit im a little worried about this one, england seemed to play much better than us in their first round game. way too many handling errors from us against Uruguay and i expected us to win by alot more. granted we were without Biggar/AWJ and Roberts etc so we will be better, but wether it will be enough is another thing.

 

[valley commando]

A pre emptive appeal

Please can we try as much as possible to not let this descend into a slanging match and focus on the game

Thanks

Agreed no slanging matches, just forthright opinions, mine being we are a little bit in the ****e injury wise.
I don't think Samson Lee has that much of a problem with his leg just precautionary I'm hoping his early departure was, I would be more concerned about Paul James, if he is out for any length i would urge Gats to bite the bullet and call Adam.
The backs are a different story, who do you call up in place of Cory Allen, for me it would be Hooky, bringing another kicker into the squad would make sense, would also like the idea of Tips in the centre My side (if fit) to play on Saturday would be either of the following.

15.Liam Williams 15. Amos.
14.North 14. North.
13.S Williams 13. S Williams
12. Roberts 12. Roberts
11.Amos 11. Cuthbert (only if Liam Williams is injured)
10. Biggar 10. Biggar
9. Phillips 9. Phillips

8. Falatau 8. Falatau
7. Tipuric 7. Tipuric
6. Warburton 6. Warburton
4. AWJ 4. AWJ
5.Ball 5. Ball (extra carrying threat)
1. Jenkins. 1. Jenkins
2. Baldwin. 2. Baldwin.
3. Lee. 3. Lee

Replacements Owens, James, Francis, Moriarty, Lydiate, Charteris, G Davies, Hook.
In the backs

 

[ncurd]

England to put out virtually the same team as Fiji as that's Lancaster's way only conceivable change I can imagine him making is swapping Lawes and Launchberry, I don't think it will happen though.

Cut out most of our muckups and I can't see Wales winning this one, home game in world cup, injuries to Wales whilst we have a fully fit squad, the fact we've beaten them the last two times out it all stacks up in England's favour. That said I'll be shocked if it's not a close run affair unless England or Wales get off to a flier.

England by 5-15 points.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Feel really bad for Wales with all the injury woes. Hopefully they'll go out and play with no fear against their biggest rival.

That being said I can't see a Wales win. 5-10 point victory for an England side who runs at the centres hard.

 

[TobesHodges]

England to put out virtually the same team as Fiji as that's Lancaster's way only conceivable change I can imagine him making is swapping Lawes and Launchberry, I don't think it will happen though.

Cut out most of our muckups and I can't see Wales winning this one, home gamein world cup, injuries to Wales whilst we have a fully fit squad, the fact we've beaten them the last two times out it all stacks up in England's favour. That said I'll be shocked if it's not a close run affair unless England or Wales get off to a flier.

England by 5-15 points.

Agreed with selection, though George back on he bench, Burgess starts with Slade on the bench..

 

[ncurd]

Agreed with selection, though George back on he bench, Burgess starts with Slade on the bench..

Lancaster won't do that he might put George on the bench but he isn't going to drop Barritt entirely and promote Slade up, I'll be mightily shocked if Barritt is not starting.

Sorry Lancaster just sees something in Barritt that the rest of us can't.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Hard to call this on the basis of whatwe've seen so far.
From where I was sat, England seemed pretty sketchy.
Wales have just played the worst team in the tournament. SOme would say they should have scored more, but I wouldn't necessarily say Wales are the sort to heap points on the minnows. I don't think they can be judged on this alone. I basically don't know where they're at as a side.

What I think I can say withsome degree of certainty is that the key to stopping them should be
A) Putting pressure on Biggar
B) Stopping Roberts

I'm clearly going to regret saying this but I'm less worried about the wingers

- - - Updated - - -

Lancaster won't do that he might put George on the bench but he isn't going to drop Barritt entirely and promote Slade up, I'll be mightily shocked if Barritt is not starting.

Sorry Lancaster just sees something in Barritt that the rest of us can't.

Because that would be mightily sstupid.We've got enough worries already with the likes of Roberts coming straight atFord. Removing Barrit from his side to be replaced by an experienced Burgess is the surest way to losing this game.

 

[Kiwi_]

I think England will edge this 22 - 19. It's going to be a fascinating game, looking forward to it. Condolences to Allen, really rough. How long is he out for?

 

[MojoPin]

I'm clearly going to regret saying this but I'm less worried about the wingers

Not surprised...Wales used to have the most dangerous back 3 in the NH but now I'm left crossing my fingers that Cuthbert doesn't make the squad. Very strange turnaround. By contrast England look very dangerous out wide, though I would select Nowell ahead of May, personally.

Condolences to Allen, really rough. How long is he out for?

No news yet but would be amazed if his tournament isn't over. Very tough for him as he'll have a very hard time breaking back into the squad when Davies comes back from injury and Tyler Morgan matures.

Really hoping Wales can channel some of England's fighting spirit for this game - it wasn't so long ago we were all assuming that a heavily-depleted, untested England side was going to get a kicking in Cardiff - and we all know how that worked out! There just wasn't much passion on display against Uruguay so I'm really hoping that Wales come out with the belief and hunger to win. If they want it bad enough then we've got a shot IMO. Anything can happen.

 

[tompaton7]

The Wales team I'd pick:

1. Gethin Jenkins, 2. Scott Baldwin, 3. Samson Lee, 4. Luke Charteris, 5. Alun Wyn Jones, 6. Sam Warburton, 7. Justin Tipuric, 8. Taulupe Faletau, 9. Gareth Davies, 10. Dan Biggar, 11. Hallam Amos, 12. Jamie Roberts, 13. Scott Williams, 14. George North, 15. Liam Williams

16. Ken Owens, 17. Paul James, 18. Tomas Francis, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Ross Moriarty, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Matthew Morgan

Only for this game would I go dual opensides. We want to play with pace and run England off the park, while taking them on at the breakdown. I pick Moriarty on the bench for better impact than Lydiate. However, I am adamant we should play Lydiate against Fiji and Australia as we are simply not going to run them off the park.

Elsewhere, obviously it depends on injuries and I hope Paul James is good to go. Baldwin for me is a way better lineout thrower than Owens and offers loads around the park. Owens will add impact off the bench. Finally, Hallam Amos clearly played better than Cuthbert, who is just pathetic at the moment. It's not ideal having to plump for either but Amos is the best of the two. Shame Anscombe got injured as I probably would have started him at full back with Liam Williams on the wing. Not to worry though.

Regarding the Uruguay game, I felt the boys just wanted to get on and do the business and get off. Saturday will be completely different.

This game for me is too close to call. No idea what will happen. It will come down to who rocks up on the day. Fingers crossed we can get over the line.

 

[ZeroTwo]

No news yet but would be amazed if his tournament isn't over. Very tough for him as he'll have a very hard time breaking back into the squad when Davies comes back from injury and Tyler Morgan matures.

BBC confirmed he's out for the tournament (pretty much).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34309231

 

[MojoPin]

WRU just confirmed it too...Allen out, Tyler Morgan called up as a replacement.

https://twitter.com/WelshRugbyUnion

 

[dullonien]

1 G Jenkins
2 S Baldwin
3 S Lee
4 AW Jones
5 Charteris
6 S Warburton (c)
7 J Tipuric
8 T Faletau
9 G Davies
10 D Biggar
11 H Amos
12 J Roberts
13 S Williams
14 G North
15 L Williams

Subs: T Francis, K Owens, P James, M Phillips, R Priestland, D Lydiate, M Morgan

That's pretty much what I'd go for as well. I'd be tempted to have Moriarty on the bench over Lydiate though, as he'll offer more impact.

I don't think Samson Lee has that much of a problem with his leg just precautionary I'm hoping his early departure was, I would be more concerned about Paul James, if he is out for any length i would urge Gats to bite the bullet and call Adam.
The backs are a different story, who do you call up in place of Cory Allen, for me it would be Hooky, bringing another kicker into the squad would make sense, would also like the idea of Tips in the centre

If Paul James and Jarvis are both struggling, I think James will have to make way. Jarvis is our emergency cover at hooker, so he's probably more important to the squad than James. I wouldn't call up Adam Jones though. When was the last time he looked even remotely international class? I think too many people are living in the past re. Adam Jones, he's well and truly done now. If we need another prop, Nicky Smith will come back in, or if Samson is out then Andrews will come in.

It'll be interesting who comes in at centre. Isn't Tyler Morgan fit again now? Otherwise Hooky is the best option, unless they gamble with North being our centre backup and bring a winger back in (Walker was only meant to be out for 2 weeks, so he could come back into the squad... again).


Regarding the actual game.

If we can put pressure on England in the scrum (Ma'afu had Cole under pressure, and he's quite frankly a terrible scrummager), the lineout (Charteris is key here), and at the breakdown (please pick Warbs and Tips Gats), then we'll have every chance of winning. I think English fans should be very worried about those 3 critical areas of the game!