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[2015 RWC] Final: New Zealand vs. Australia (31/10/2015)

I suspect this will be an easy final for the All Blacks and they will win by at least 14pts. Australia beat the All Blacks once every 5 years it seems. When was the last time they had the bledisloe cup for goodness sake - 15 years ago now ?

Australia beat the All Blacks this year in Sydney then the All Blacks beat them one weak later putting 50pts on them!! - everyone wants an epic clash but there's a reason the All Blacks have been the greatest ever rugby team over 122 years of dominance. Expect an fairly easy ABs win. 14pts+ - Australia is all hype and no substance.
 
I suspect this will be an easy final for the All Blacks and they will win by at least 14pts. Australia beat the All Blacks once every 5 years it seems. When was the last time they had the bledisloe cup for goodness sake - 15 years ago now ?

Australia beat the All Blacks this year in Sydney then the All Blacks beat them one weak later putting 50pts on them!! - everyone wants an epic clash but there's a reason the All Blacks have been the greatest ever rugby team over 122 years of dominance. Expect an fairly easy ABs win. 14pts+ - Australia is all hype and no substance.

Lol don't beat around the bush mate . Just say it as you hope it happens

Any chance you said this before the RC decider ? Haha
 
I suspect this will be an easy final for the All Blacks and they will win by at least 14pts. Australia beat the All Blacks once every 5 years it seems. When was the last time they had the bledisloe cup for goodness sake - 15 years ago now ?

Australia beat the All Blacks this year in Sydney then the All Blacks beat them one weak later putting 50pts on them!! - everyone wants an epic clash but there's a reason the All Blacks have been the greatest ever rugby team over 122 years of dominance. Expect an fairly easy ABs win. 14pts+ - Australia is all hype and no substance.

Come on man, we can't be too confident. We need to keep a level head, being overly confident is the only thing that can get in the All Blacks way of winning IMO.
 
Come on man, we can't be too confident. We need to keep a level head, being overly confident is the only thing that can get in the All Blacks way of winning IMO.

The all blacks won't be over confident bro maybe the fans but definatley not the team
 
funny reading this thread so far, does seem the pressure is getting to some people. I know I have nerves :)

from an AB perspective as always... AUS are a different prospect for us than most other teams.

Generally we can wear down a team over during a game and put them away later on. Stay with them on the scoreboard then win the last 20. But AUS are the one team that can stick with us in terms of fitness over 80min.

we need to use a different tactic against them, Physicality.

We need to win that gain line battle with our ball runners. Retalick, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Nonu & Savea. Bash through them, get them going backwards. Then on defense bash them before the gainline. Make them hurt, get them going backwards and force them to kick in a defensive way.

I feel like the kind of form Nonu is in this year should make him a real weapon against Australia with a potential of targeting the gap either side of kurindrani with the goal of setting Savea away... I think we should get him into the game early and often knowing we have SBW up our sleeve for later on.

Much like the middle part of our game against the springboks, win that physical battle at the gain line. So so important. Winning that contact area can make it a very easy day for the All Blacks, I expect the Aussies to put a big early effort into this area but the AB's to match it and eventually gain an advantage then capitalize on it. Our locks and props are just generally much better in this area and its so critical we take advantage of that.

Pocock is an absolute beast that needs to be addressed. He is a match winner and Aussie rely on him so much. In particular against the All Blacks, I honestly don't believe Australia could beat the AB's without him. And of course that means from an All Black perspective if we can take him out of the game or minimize his impact then Australia will simply struggle. We have done it in the past.

The most simple tactic is to feed the ball to the opposite side of the ruck than the one he is defending on. That means he has to cover more ground and he wont be there to make turnovers.
Target him with big ball runners like Savea & Kaino, if he has to fully commit to a tackle then hes not making a turnover and he wont the next phase as well. And if you hit him hard enough often enough he wont be as effective later on.
target him as priority #1 for cleanouts, Retalick, Kaino, Read, Owen Franks. commit one of these guys every ruck to hit him as the tackle is being made. But it will mostly be about committing an extra man to cleanouts for the first 30min in particular.
Ball carriers also need to be mindful of where pocock is and not go to ground too fast if he is there. Go lower and drive a bit before going to ground to allow support to come in behind to clean out. Ben Smith and Conrad Smith are very good at this....

Maybe the most important factor with Pocock is actually the referee, Watching the AUS vs ARG game Barnes let players basically get away with anything when going for the ball and pocock and others won penalties & turnovers while not really releasing and not really supporting their body weight. To the point where an Argentinian player won a turnover even though his whole body was basically horizontal to the ground, well past any point where it would be impossible for them to be considered on their feet. IF that happens in an AUS vs NZ game it will favor AUS. I do however think Owens is more technical in that area and favors the attacking team a bit more rather than just letting defenders attack the tackle any way they like like Barnes was doing. Referees do tend to go into their shell a bit in WC finals, if that happens it may suit Pocock.

Having Pocock at 8 does leave Aussie short in the lineouts and we will absolutely target that area, heck we caused major issues for the springbok lineout so that must be a major concern for Aussie this week.

I also think our scrum will be stronger than the first two times we have met this season. Aussies have shown that they are vulnerable without their first front row on the field.

We are going to have to adapt and counter the aussie rushing early in the game. That cost Argentina early in the semi-final. The rushing defense and restarts, Argentina did eventually find ways around it but couldn't finish the chances that were created. I think the AB's short/offload game is better to the point we could seriously punish them given those same chances, but we don't play as deep as the pumas. We will have to look to kick to runners in space when the opportunity presents itself. But also kick away from Folau, situations that can really benefit the AB's are if we can get the ball in the air to ben smith away from Folau or to the ground for Savea to run onto.

epic battle coming up no doubt, looking forward to it :)
 
The all blacks won't be over confident bro maybe the fans but definatley not the team
Yup I agree. In terms of experience, composure, basically the whole mental side of the game, this is the best All Black team I have ever seen. Over confidence wont be an issue.
 
I suspect this will be an easy final for the All Blacks and they will win by at least 14pts. Australia beat the All Blacks once every 5 years it seems. When was the last time they had the bledisloe cup for goodness sake - 15 years ago now ?

Australia beat the All Blacks this year in Sydney then the All Blacks beat them one weak later putting 50pts on them!! - everyone wants an epic clash but there's a reason the All Blacks have been the greatest ever rugby team over 122 years of dominance. Expect an fairly easy ABs win. 14pts+ - Australia is all hype and no substance.

Remember the Eden Park win was against the Aus 2nd side and we played at home.

People need to remember it is knockout rugby and look at the 2011 WC final against France, people we like yeah 20 points easy *****es and we almost lost it.
 
There's no way we're winning this by 14 points +, that's just not respecting the oppositions qualities or being realistic or living in the land of reality. It's going to be tighter than a Nun and tougher than drunk Scot, Australia and hungry team with no fear of the All Blacks and they truly believe they can beat us, so let's respect them a bit more and no have unrealistic valuations of 14 points + (if that happens then blimey). We will win undoubtedly, but keep it real.
 
There's no way we're winning this by 14 points +, that's just not respecting the oppositions qualities or being realistic or living in the land of reality. It's going to be tighter than a Nun and tougher than drunk Scot, Australia and hungry team with no fear of the All Blacks and they truly believe they can beat us, so let's respect them a bit more and no have unrealistic valuations of 14 points + (if that happens then blimey). We will win undoubtedly, but keep it real.

Agreed, will be a converted try at the most, I am so excited and so nervous at the same time.

In under 5 days we will know.
 
No, this wont live up to the expectations, All Blacks have enough in the tank to win this than most expect. Cant wait to revisit this thread when All Blacks win this easy. For me this is an easier final than facing up to South Africa.

Australia well and truly overrated and overvalued on this. One win against an off color All Blacks this year and now Australia is a great team. Sorry one week later was the truth, pocock and hooper off the bench and they got smashed - when AB's decide to play Aussie wont stand toe to toe. Get on the ABs 13+
 
No, this wont live up to the expectations, All Blacks have enough in the tank to win this than most expect. Cant wait to revisit this thread when All Blacks win this easy. For me this is an easier final than facing up to South Africa.

Australia well and truly overrated and overvalued on this. One win against an off color All Blacks this year and now Australia is a great team. Sorry one week later was the truth, pocock and hooper off the bench and they got smashed - when AB's decide to play Aussie wont stand toe to toe. Get on the ABs 13+

Err, no, theyre a great team because theyve had an amazing WC and alongside the ABs are the only undefeated team in the tournament. Get your head out of your arse mate, even your compatriots dont see the ABs putting 14+ on them.
 
No, this wont live up to the expectations, All Blacks have enough in the tank to win this than most expect. Cant wait to revisit this thread when All Blacks win this easy. For me this is an easier final than facing up to South Africa.

Australia well and truly overrated and overvalued on this. One win against an off color All Blacks this year and now Australia is a great team. Sorry one week later was the truth, pocock and hooper off the bench and they got smashed - when AB's decide to play Aussie wont stand toe to toe. Get on the ABs 13+

Stranger things have happened. I guess no predicted the French scoreline. I still think it's highly unrealistic given the quality of the Aussie team, albeit shallow quality.
 
The good thing about ABs is that when the pressure is on, they respond big time especially against Australia.

Playing Australia with a trophy on the line has brought the best out of ABs because of history, big bro lil bro syndrome, the usual Anzac rivalry. I believe this will be the case in the weekend (whether their best is better than Oz best that's a different argument). If the ABs had to play Argentina in the final than I believe the edge would be slightly less which could be a big difference.

I recall from the doco Weight of a Nation. Graham Henry mention after their QF win against the Argies, the team was told they will be playing Australia in the semi. GH said "They jumped and cheered, they were pumped like they had already won the game" (something along those lines).

These ABs love the challenge, being under pressure to perform.
 
I am trying very hard not to be too confident about this but all the pieces are in place for a comfortable ABs win.

Two of the biggest factors for me are injuries/selection, and the AB's mental strength. So often in the past we have been undone at World Cups where injuries and selection issues have really hampered us. Not now. And mentally, this side under McCaw handes pressure incredibly well. Cheers to Gilbert Enoka and co for the big improvements we have made in this area over the last few years.

The Sydney result earlier this year was not particularly surprising - I know at the time I half expected a loss. It's an odd thing but in a World Cup year the RC just doesn't matter much. The following week there was a huge increase in focus as we really wanted to retain the Bledisloe and to correct the earlier performance. It was an interesting selection by Cheika for the Eden Park test - it was like he knew whatever side he put out was going to get battered so he selected a weakened team to try and minimise the psychological scars. Mostly I hate that, but you have to admire the mental strategy in preparing for a World Cup.

My point is, this week is like that week leading up to the Eden Park test - we were totally focussed on putting out a huge performance, which is exactly what we got.
 
Err, no, theyre a great team because theyve had an amazing WC and alongside the ABs are the only undefeated team in the tournament. Get your head out of your arse mate, even your compatriots dont see the ABs putting 14+ on them.
The last 4 years have given him every right to believe his team has the ability to win 14+!! Or are people not entitled to their opinions on this forum any more unless it complies with the minnow nations supporters?
 
Err, no, theyre a great team because theyve had an amazing WC and alongside the ABs are the only undefeated team in the tournament. Get your head out of your arse mate, even your compatriots dont see the ABs putting 14+ on them.

Im happy to post here and admit it if I am wrong - but all the signs are there for an easier than expected final for the AB's and many kiwis im talking to believe that the truly tough is out of the way in SA. There is no complacency here and we know the ABs will not be getting ahead of themselves.

Maybe given that Ireland is a Minnow in rugby you maybe viewing things differently but here is a quick modern rugby history lesson for you lad - take note of the majority of the margins please. Regards.

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]No.[/TH]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Venue[/TH]
[TH]Score[/TH]
[TH]Winner[/TH]
[TH]Competition[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]155[/TH]
[TD]31 October 2015[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham Stadium, London, England[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2015 Rugby World Cup Final[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]154[/TH]
[TD]15 August 2015[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41 – 13[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2015 pre-RWC test
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]153[/TH]
[TD]8 August 2015[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 19[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png
Australia[/TD]
[TD]2015 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]152[/TH]
[TD]18 October 2014[/TD]
[TD]Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28 – 29[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2014 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]151[/TH]
[TD]23 August 2014[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]51 – 20[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2014 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]150[/TH]
[TD]16 August 2014[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12 – 12[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]149[/TH]
[TD]19 October 2013[/TD]
[TD]Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41 – 33[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2013 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]148[/TH]
[TD]24 August 2013[/TD]
[TD]Westpac Stadium, Wellington[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 16[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2013 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]147[/TH]
[TD]17 August 2013[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29 – 47[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]146[/TH]
[TD]20 October 2012[/TD]
[TD]Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18 – 18[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[TD]2012 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]145[/TH]
[TD]25 August 2012[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22 – 0[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2012 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]144[/TH]
[TD]18 August 2012[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19 – 27[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]143[/TH]
[TD]16 October 2011[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 6[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2011 Rugby World Cup[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

- - - Updated - - -

I am trying very hard not to be too confident about this but all the pieces are in place for a comfortable ABs win.

Two of the biggest factors for me are injuries/selection, and the AB's mental strength. So often in the past we have been undone at World Cups where injuries and selection issues have really hampered us. Not now. And mentally, this side under McCaw handes pressure incredibly well. Cheers to Gilbert Enoka and co for the big improvements we have made in this area over the last few years.

The Sydney result earlier this year was not particularly surprising - I know at the time I half expected a loss. It's an odd thing but in a World Cup year the RC just doesn't matter much. The following week there was a huge increase in focus as we really wanted to retain the Bledisloe and to correct the earlier performance. It was an interesting selection by Cheika for the Eden Park test - it was like he knew whatever side he put out was going to get battered so he selected a weakened team to try and minimise the psychological scars. Mostly I hate that, but you have to admire the mental strategy in preparing for a World Cup.

My point is, this week is like that week leading up to the Eden Park test - we were totally focussed on putting out a huge performance, which is exactly what we got.

Yes and when Cheika realised how rampant the ABs were playing he rushed on his stars and they had no effect what so ever. We always expect the ABs to win and win well, i noticed a lot of AB fans on here almost embarrassed to admit just how good we are and should be. Soon as you do that, its the beginning of the end, mediocrity embraces each other, the elite just win and keep winning. Get it done AB's
 
A bit of perspective - the chances of the ABs winning by 13+ are greater than or equal to the chances the Ozzies are given to win the match at pretty much every bookmaker I've looked at. Therefore the fullah above suggesting the ABs will walk in is not really going out on that much of a limb!!

Put it this way, if you had to bet your life savings on this game and the options were 12 and under or 13 an over, what would you take? I would be on the ABs 13+ for sure!
 
^^ Nice table, but we all know in WC finals you throw away history and you focus on the 80 minutes coming.

As fans that is what we should look at as well, when you look at the 2 teams on paper, we should have the five, Aus have the loosies and the backline should be ours. So there is not a lot in it.

The tight 5 will give you good go ahead ball and serve up our backs nice quick recycled ball, Aus will struggle to contain our backline if this happens as man for man we are better slightly.

The loosies will have a huge bearing on getting the quick recycled ball, if we go to wide to quick and get isolated it will be turnover city, so we need to play a game that nullifies that, running at Pocock will help this.

But like I said, its the 80 mins coming that mean everything now, throw away the last 3 years as history is just that, history. You write the future this week.
 
Im happy to post here and admit it if I am wrong - but all the signs are there for an easier than expected final for the AB's and many kiwis im talking to believe that the truly tough is out of the way in SA. There is no complacency here and we know the ABs will not be getting ahead of themselves.

Maybe given that Ireland is a Minnow in rugby you maybe viewing things differently but here is a quick modern rugby history lesson for you lad - take note of the majority of the margins please. Regards.

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]No.[/TH]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Venue[/TH]
[TH]Score[/TH]
[TH]Winner[/TH]
[TH]Competition[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]155[/TH]
[TD]31 October 2015[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham Stadium, London, England[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2015 Rugby World Cup Final[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]154[/TH]
[TD]15 August 2015[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41 – 13[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2015 pre-RWC test [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]153[/TH]
[TD]8 August 2015[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 19[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png
Australia[/TD]
[TD]2015 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]152[/TH]
[TD]18 October 2014[/TD]
[TD]Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28 – 29[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2014 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]151[/TH]
[TD]23 August 2014[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]51 – 20[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2014 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]150[/TH]
[TD]16 August 2014[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12 – 12[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]149[/TH]
[TD]19 October 2013[/TD]
[TD]Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41 – 33[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2013 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]148[/TH]
[TD]24 August 2013[/TD]
[TD]Westpac Stadium, Wellington[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 16[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2013 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]147[/TH]
[TD]17 August 2013[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29 – 47[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]146[/TH]
[TD]20 October 2012[/TD]
[TD]Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18 – 18[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[TD]2012 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]145[/TH]
[TD]25 August 2012[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22 – 0[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2012 Rugby Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]144[/TH]
[TD]18 August 2012[/TD]
[TD]ANZ Stadium, Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19 – 27[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]143[/TH]
[TD]16 October 2011[/TD]
[TD]Eden Park, Auckland[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 6[/TD]
[TD]
23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD]2011 Rugby World Cup[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

- - - Updated - - -
I'm not sure the stats back up what you are saying! Perhaps I am missing the point you are trying to make, but out of those 12 games you list, only five were won by 13+, the majority were "small" margins or were drawn. What am I missing here?

On top of that, 4 of those 5 victories (with big winning margins) were at Eden Park.

If anything the stats suggest it will be close - and that's not even taking into account the fact that this is a RWC Final.

The average winning margin for a RWC final is about 9 points, 8 if you count the two that went to extra time as draws, and 4 if you exclude France from the analysis ;)
 
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That table makes no sense to me either, Im really struggling to see a connection between it and the posters argument...

For the record, Im not saying the ABs arent going to put 14+ because they cant, but because this is a WC final and there is going to be minimal tries with the game being decided by penalties, which Carter will win because hes a better kicker... Just dont see ABs playing a running game and racking up the tries, which is the only way theyd get a 14+ lead
 
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