[2015 ITM Cup] Discussion

[Kiwi_]

So it looks as if the Crusaders have signed the Makos flanker Pete Samu - I'm pretty happy about that

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/72268594/crusaders-sign-tasman-makos-flanker-pete-samu

That's a really good signing for the Crusaders, not McCaw level (but who is), but definitely a good start.

 

[ABs2011]

I didn't realize you were drafting a potential All Black short list. They are both great players for their provinces, but never AB level (maybe Dawai can play for Fiji in the future). Dawai is Fijian but he came through club Rugby in Dunedin, he's a Harbour boy, damn good player. I suggest you should keep an eye on Otago games, they're the most entertaining games in the competition, check out the score lines and their attitude towards a deficit is great, they're never down and out and play to the last whistle.

We have the strongest rolling maul in the competition, Dawai has been used mainly as an impact player in the earlier games but has cemented a starting spot from match winning performances, he's a great ball carrier and really strong tackler, at times he can lack a little vision, but he's excellent and definitely should be on your list.

Just a bit of fun, but the main reason I like watching the ITM cup is to see the young fullahs come through and perhaps the odd old one that are playing themselves into contention. I remember very well seeing both a young McCaw and you Carter playing fir Canterbury back in the day and thinking boy these kids are gonna be good. It's nice to have been able to see these guys in their early days.

Yeah I should watch more Otago games. I;m actually down here now, but so much rugby I have to pick and chose my games.

I'll watch Otagos next game and check out Dawai properly. I did watch them beat Taranaki, and saw the majority of the Wellington match but haven't really sat down and watched them properly yet.

- - - Updated - - -

So it looks as if the Crusaders have signed the Makos flanker Pete Samu - I'm pretty happy about that

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/72268594/crusaders-sign-tasman-makos-flanker-pete-samu

Good on them. I figured is was either gonna be them or the Highlanders. He deserves consistent Super Rugby game time, and not a bad team to get it in!

 

[Irish boy]

Ok fans of Hurricanes and Taranaki (I think) is James Marshall any good because apparently we have signed him.

 

[ABs2011]

Ok fans of Hurricanes and Taranaki (I think) is James Marshall any good because apparently we have signed him.

Without ever being in contention to be an AB, and at times struggling to get a full time Super Rugby starting spot, he is actually a really solid player and had a good season with the Canes. He has utility value in that he can play 10 but is primarily a full back. I think his biggest attribute is that he has a very high rugby IQ and has coaching ambitions after his playing career. He reads the game well, has a pretty good kicking game, knows how to runt the right lines and makes good choices in-play. He is also a good leader and very experienced now. He perhaps had his best season to date with the Hurricanes this year. I'm not sure who your team is (sorry don't recognise the logo) but I would say he is a very good signing. My only concern is he may be getting a little injury prone? Currently out for the ITM cup season with a toe issue. As a result I believe he has transitioned to an informal role within the Taranaki coaching staff.

Who have you guys currently got at 15?

 

[Kiwi_]

Ok fans of Hurricanes and Taranaki (I think) is James Marshall any good because apparently we have signed him.

He's been a regular for the Hurricanes for the last 2 years and originally a Tasman boy. He's a good versatile player, but not world class, he took over kicking duties when Barrett was injured and Otere Black was with the u20s. He can play first 5 and FB, decent squad and utility player. He is prone to being very average sometimes.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

happy to see some Dawai chat, he's been fantastic, good at running free and see a couple of good hits although haven't really analysed his defensive game completely.

would love to see another Otago player get the nod and pay of some hard graft in club rigy and the ITM rather than just ship someone new in

 

[nickdnz]

Ok fans of Hurricanes and Taranaki (I think) is James Marshall any good because apparently we have signed him.

He's alright. Solid at 10 or 15, doesn't have many bad games. Probably isn't part of the Canes 1st XV, but definitely in their 22.

 

[Irish boy]

Without ever being in contention to be an AB, and at times struggling to get a full time Super Rugby starting spot, he is actually a really solid player and had a good season with the Canes. He has utility value in that he can play 10 but is primarily a full back. I think his biggest attribute is that he has a very high rugby IQ and has coaching ambitions after his playing career. He reads the game well, has a pretty good kicking game, knows how to runt the right lines and makes good choices in-play. He is also a good leader and very experienced now. He perhaps had his best season to date with the Hurricanes this year. I'm not sure who your team is (sorry don't recognise the logo) but I would say he is a very good signing. My only concern is he may be getting a little injury prone? Currently out for the ITM cup season with a toe issue. As a result I believe he has transitioned to an informal role within the Taranaki coaching staff.

Who have you guys currently got at 15?

Andy Fenby who was one of our best players last season but he can play 13 or winger. He might play at 12 though referring to Marshall because we barely have any. Anyway thanks for the responses and I hope this goes through

 

[ABs2011]

Did anyone see the Waikato Canterbury match last night? I didn't get to see the Tamiefuna incident but I understand it was an embarrassment to the officials.

"Trailing for 70 minutes of their clash against Waikato in Christchurch, the home side took advantage of Ben Tameifuna's yellow card to score two tries and claim a narrow victory.

An out-of-sorts Canterbury were outplayed for the the majority of the match but were barely able to walk away with a seventh straight win and leapfrog Tasman to the top of the Premiership. For that, they had to thank Ben Funnell and Matt Todd, the scorers of a pair of late tries, along with the men in pink.

There initially appeared to be little in Ben Tameifuna's off-the-ball tangle with an opponent, and television replays confirmed as much. But even after the TMO failed to spot an offence, referee Paul Williams brandished yellow to the Waikato prop on the advice of touch judge Liam Scanlon.

Tameifuna trudged off and Canterbury immediately took advantage, earning a couple of lineouts in the opposite corners of AMI Stadium and implementing a couple a successful lineout drives against their undermanned opponents."

I heard the Waikato coach on the radio this morning and he called them out on it big time. I know everyone makes mistakes but I just do not get what the point of the TMO is if the on field refs are going to overturn it and do what they want anyway. It's ridiculous.

There should be a blanket rule that if something gets referred to the TMO then their decision is final. Otherwise debacles like this will continue and people will start to get disillusion with the game.

 

[ABs2011]

Big game tonight folks - perhaps the most important of the season barring the finals.

HB vs Auckland for the shield

What: Hawke's Bay v Auckland.
Where: McLean Park, Napier.
TV: Sky Sport 1, 7.35pm.
TAB: Hawke's Bay $2.15, Auckland $1.65. Referee: Nick Briant

Auckland: Charles Piutau, Bryce Heem, Vince Aso, George Moala, Ben Lam, Simon Hickey, Jono Hickey, Akira Ioane, Mitch Karpik, Joe Edwards, Scott Scrafton, Michael Fatialofa/Will Lloyd, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Greg Pleasants-Tate, Sam Prattley. Reserves: Kurt Eklund, Jono Owen, Tom McHugh, Taleni Seu, Matt Matich, Kaito Shigeno, Mitch Hunt, Lolagi Visinia.

Hawke's Bay: Israel Dagg, Ryan Tongia, Richard Buckman, Andrew Horrell, Shannan Chase, Ihaia West, Chris Eaton, Brendon O'Connor, Tom Stanley, Tony Lamborn, Mark Abbott, Michael Allardice, Brendon Edmonds, Ash Dixon/Ricky Riccitelli, Tolu Fahamokioa. Reserves: Dixon/Riccitelli, Jason Long, Jarvy Aoake, Sanaila Waqa, Trent Boswell-Wakefield, Ellery Wilson, Billy Rohipa, Robbie Fruean.

To be honest I have no idea who will win this, I think it will just come down to which team clicks on the day. Perhaps Auckland is deserved favourite as they have had slightly tougher competition this year and have generally come out on top. That being said, HB have defended this shield so well over the last couple seasons, and this years team looks as good, maybe better than before. Tough one to call, but I hope that HB hold on.

 

[smartcooky]

Did anyone see the Waikato Canterbury match last night? I didn't get to see the Tamiefuna incident but I understand it was an embarrassment to the officials.

"Trailing for 70 minutes of their clash against Waikato in Christchurch, the home side took advantage of Ben Tameifuna's yellow card to score two tries and claim a narrow victory.

An out-of-sorts Canterbury were outplayed for the the majority of the match but were barely able to walk away with a seventh straight win and leapfrog Tasman to the top of the Premiership. For that, they had to thank Ben Funnell and Matt Todd, the scorers of a pair of late tries, along with the men in pink.

There initially appeared to be little in Ben Tameifuna's off-the-ball tangle with an opponent, and television replays confirmed as much. But even after the TMO failed to spot an offence, referee Paul Williams brandished yellow to the Waikato prop on the advice of touch judge Liam Scanlon.

Tameifuna trudged off and Canterbury immediately took advantage, earning a couple of lineouts in the opposite corners of AMI Stadium and implementing a couple a successful lineout drives against their undermanned opponents."

I heard the Waikato coach on the radio this morning and he called them out on it big time. I know everyone makes mistakes but I just do not get what the point of the TMO is if the on field refs are going to overturn it and do what they want anyway. It's ridiculous.

There should be a blanket rule that if something gets referred to the TMO then their decision is final. Otherwise debacles like this will continue and people will start to get disillusion with the game.

I did, and the decision by the referee to bin Tameifuna was a disgrace. The key word is "clear and obvious", and the video the TMO saw was neither.

The only yellow card offence I saw in that play was the Canterbury player's reaction to whatever Tameifuna did, which was to grab him around the neck and drag him to ground. There has been a specific focus from WR to clamp down on neck grabs, and the referee has totally ignored it.

The full time penalty to Canterbury was also incorrect. The Canterbury THP boring in and pulling down was the cause of the wheel and collapse not anything the Waikato LHP did.

The standard of refereeing in the ITM Cup is been crap, with the singular exception of Will Houston, the Australian referee, who has been a stand-out!

 

[ABs2011]

I did, and the decision by the referee to bin Tameifuna was a disgrace. The key word is "clear and obvious", and the video the TMO saw was neither.

The only yellow card offence I saw in that play was the Canterbury player's reaction to whatever Tameifuna did, which was to grab him around the neck and drag him to ground. There has been a specific focus from WR to clamp down on neck grabs, and the referee has totally ignored it.

The full time penalty to Canterbury was also incorrect. The Canterbury THP boring in and pulling down was the cause of the wheel and collapse not anything the Waikato LHP did.

The standard of refereeing in the ITM Cup is been crap, with the singular exception of Will Houston, the Australian referee, who has been a stand-out!

Interesting comments. I'd like to see what happened, but haven't found anything yet.

I dont think Tamiefuna has helped his cause much this season and before. Of course it doesn't make right the bad decision last night, but he has done a lot of dumb stuff lately, and as a result a few officials have probably had enough. That is something he is going to have to own and accept, and hopefully work on.

Regarding the officiating this year, yeah, I must admit, while the rugby has been of a good standard, I have found the officiating a little frustrating. Like you say, not many refs going round at that level that are doing a good constant job.

 

[ABs2011]

Big game tonight folks - perhaps the most important of the season barring the finals.

HB vs Auckland for the shield

To be honest I have no idea who will win this, I think it will just come down to which team clicks on the day. Perhaps Auckland is deserved favourite as they have had slightly tougher competition this year and have generally come out on top. That being said, HB have defended this shield so well over the last couple seasons, and this years team looks as good, maybe better than before. Tough one to call, but I hope that HB hold on.

Really hard fought win last night for HB. They just showed more desire to win I thought. It was IMO by far the most hotly contested games of the ITM Cup season, with an extremely high level of intensity, huge tackling, lots of injuries, and a pretty gritty performance by both teams.

On the injury front, Dagg looks like he could be gone for the season with a dislocated shoulder, at least thats what it looked like on field. Sad for the guy, and potentially a concern for the ABs, but to be honest I've flicked the TV on a few times over the last three weeks and have seen him kick out on the full 5 times. Not good enough from that level of player. Jane and Piutau far better options for cover IF the ABs need it!

 

[Kiwi_]

Just got back from the Otago Southland game, what a cracker, we completely destroyed them, we've been building some nice momentum and finally worked out our best starting squad. Jamie MacKintosh red card was well deserved. Awesome crowd, a lot of Southland fans came up and were good banter, bring on the finals. Peter Breen deserves to be our 3rd sting first 5 for the Highlanders as well.

 

[ABs2011]

Hey, has anyone got a link to the video highlights of BOP vs Wellington. There seemed like a bizzare try in that game to BOP whereby a BOP player popped the ball up as he was going to ground, it did appear to come out of his hands backward, but the guy who recived the pass, on first looks at least, caught the ball about 1 or 2 metres ahead of the guy that passed it who was laying on the ground. I've never seen anything like it, but perhaps the best example of backward out of the hand, but overall forward....

Anyway, if anyone has a link for those highlights I'd love to see it again. I think the players involved were Tiatia and Bardoul.

 

[nickdnz]

Hey, has anyone got a link to the video highlights of BOP vs Wellington. There seemed like a bizzare try in that game to BOP whereby a BOP player popped the ball up as he was going to ground, it did appear to come out of his hands backward, but the guy who recived the pass, on first looks at least, caught the ball about 1 or 2 metres ahead of the guy that passed it who was laying on the ground. I've never seen anything like it, but perhaps the best example of backward out of the hand, but overall forward....

Anyway, if anyone has a link for those highlights I'd love to see it again. I think the players involved were Tiatia and Bardoul.

I noticed it too, where he was being chanced down and this weird offload from behind his back definitely travelled pretty far forward. I'm not sure relative velocity was a fair argument in that case to be honest. Cory Jane stopped chasing cause he was waiting for the whistle (which is a mistake of course). Would have been a bit filthy had we lost..



Around 1:18

 

[ABs2011]

I noticed it too, where he was being chanced down and this weird offload from behind his back definitely travelled pretty far forward. I'm not sure relative velocity was a fair argument in that case to be honest. Cory Jane stopped chasing cause he was waiting for the whistle (which is a mistake of course). Would have been a bit filthy had we lost..



Around 1:18

Awesome, thanks for that!

Yeah, watching it live I could not understand why the TMO didnt get called into action. Watching it a few times on replay I have no idea what would have eventuated IF the TMO was called upon. It certainly gets caught about 1 or 2 meters infront of the passer, but does kinda look like it goes back out of the hand. Remember also there was quite a big wind behind the Steamers in that half too which may well have made a difference. Either way it was a try, but certinaly one of the more bizarre ones I have ever seen!!

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Bugger all discussion about ITM cup and to be honset I've been watching a bit less now that the RWC is on. But its almost over now.

Still looks like a HB Wellington final although Otago have been the most impressive team this year in terms of perforamance vs expectations.

The premiership is more interesting with some mid season loses to Tasman in particular changing things up a bit. Looks like Canterbury and Auckland will get the home semis but I'm not sure either of those will be giveins as Tasman and Taranaki are both capable of upsets. I think Canterbury will win it though. Just too much depth.

Also I heard unofficially Karpik has signed with the Chiefs? If that is the case the Blues have made yet another blunder. How on earth could they let this kid go? Ioane, Karpik and Luatua could be the loose forward trio that takes the Blues into the future but it seems lie good old Blues management dont agree... Hmmm

 

[nickdnz]

Dave Rennie sure can knick talent. Not sure it's the best move for Karpik mind you, as he will likely be stuck behind the All Blacks first choice openside. Looked like an easy spot - with a decent loose trio of Kaino and Ioane - and no opensides in the way as everyone else buggered off. That said they do have another promising youngster in Blake Gibson - so maybe the Blues will look for a more experienced 7 to help develop Gibson - rather than end up with a bunch of young players who will struggle to establish a spot (like their halfback and 1st 5/8th situation).

Not saying I agree with that if it is the case.

 

[ABs2011]

Have you seen much of this kid Viliami Lolohea for Tasman? I've caught a bit of him recently (I dont think he started the season for Tasman did he?) - He looks very impressive!!



Also I was searching for highlights of the kid from his Warriors days and found this - its a must watch



Otherwise I cant find much info on him. Seems that after playing for the Junior Warriors he got contracted by the Crusaders/Tasman back in 2013. I dont think he debuted for Tasman uintil this year though, so can only imagine he has been inclub rugby and development teams over the last 2 years.

From what I have seen though he looks really impressive now. Good step, good pace, good line breaking ability. Hopefuly a Super Rugby player next season.

 

[smartcooky]

Have you seen much of this kid Viliami Lolohea for Tasman? I've caught a bit of him recently (I dont think he started the season for Tasman did he?) - He looks very impressive!!



Also I was searching for highlights of the kid from his Warriors days and found this - its a must watch



Otherwise I cant find much info on him. Seems that after playing for the Junior Warriors he got contracted by the Crusaders/Tasman back in 2013. I dont think he debuted for Tasman uintil this year though, so can only imagine he has been inclub rugby and development teams over the last 2 years.

From what I have seen though he looks really impressive now. Good step, good pace, good line breaking ability. Hopefuly a Super Rugby player next season.

He is QUICK with a capital "Q".

I was at Trafalgar Park for the North Harbour game and I watched later on TV. You just don't get the same impression on TV just how quick a player is that you do live at the ground.