[2014 TRC] Australia v South Africa in Perth (06/09/2014)

[smartcooky]

Our props need to f*** off; if they can't scrum then they need to add elsewhere which they don't, Beast dropping teh ball so close to the try line is unforgivable for a test player. Him and Jannie are anonymous apart from when they f*** up. At the scrum, while Slipper was on we were struggling it against Aus with a 8th? choice hooker!!!!!NZ are going to give us exactly what Argentina, Wales and the world XV gave us at scrum time. Really, this has been a long time coming regarding our propping situation.

If I was a Bokke supporter, I would have been getting worried last year or even earlier when the coach kept going back to players who have moved on to Europe (I'm thinking of Matfield and Bakkies but you will probably know others). To me, if you keep having to go back to those long-in-the-tooth players it means you don't have faith in the newer guys. Etzebeth is scarily good for his age and will only improve, but I don't see a real up and comer to go with him,; at least not one that Meyer has any faith in.

I also think when players go to Europe, their game does decline somewhat from a SH perspective because they are asked to play a different style. We have never been able to successfully crack the trick of bringing back players from Europe for the All Blacks. They either don't make the grade (Chris Jack) or they fail (Luke McAlister). Jerome Kaino seems to have made the transition from Japan Top League, but they play a similar style to Super-Rugby, albeit at a much lower level.

The other thing that must be worrying for the Bokke supporter is that Heyneke Meyer seems hell bent on playing the style of rugby that won them the Tri-Nations back in 2009, seemingly unable to understand that the game has long ago moved on. They haven't won 3N/RC since then. They proved that are capable of playing a more expansively in the final game at Ellis Park last year.

 

[Icemn]

If I was a Bokke supporter, I would have been getting worried last year or even earlier when the coach kept going back to players who have moved on to Europe (I'm thinking of Matfield and Bakkies but you will probably know others). To me, if you keep having to go back to those long-in-the-tooth players it means you don't have faith in the newer guys. Etzebeth is scarily good for his age and will only improve, but I don't see a real up and comer to go with him,; at least not one that Meyer has any faith in.

I also think when players go to Europe, their game does decline somewhat from a SH perspective because they are asked to play a different style. We have never been able to successfully crack the trick of bringing back players from Europe for the All Blacks. They either don't make the grade (Chris Jack) or they fail (Luke McAlister). Jerome Kaino seems to have made the transition from Japan Top League, but they play a similar style to Super-Rugby, albeit at a much lower level.

The other thing that must be worrying for the Bokke supporter is that Heyneke Meyer seems hell bent on playing the style of rugby that won them the Tri-Nations back in 2009, seemingly unable to understand that the game has long ago moved on. They haven't won 3N/RC since then. They proved that are capable of playing a more expansively in the final game at Ellis Park last year.

In the majority of the bok fans in SA and definitely in the coaches mind, the result is the most important thing... they do not care how they get a win, they just want the win and they are happy... if NZ where to kick 5 consecutive penalties to win games without scoring a try... the NZ crowd will complain... but in SA most of the fans do not care, as long as the boks win... so HM has a much easier job than SH does. HM gameplan is based on defense 1st, that is why he wants big strong players and discard the small elusive ones. He applies pressure on defense and hit the counter, that is their game plan. So they keep it tight, or well try to keep it tight, but as the game evolves the attacking teams improve and more and more holes will appear, SA is staying behind, NZ, AUS and ARG are all improving. When the boks were forced to play an expansive game last year vs nz, bigger holes opened up for NZ to cash in on. HM believes in experience and i believe the game has evolved in such a big way that younger players reach the peak of their game much earlier a player at 28 is basically past his best, give and take...

i dont know why we as non-bok fans are complaining about their mistakes, if they fix it they might dominate, we should actually sit back and enjoy them being their own worst enemy... but i think we talk about it because we are bigger rugby fans than what we are nz, arg, aus etc supporters... and no-one likes a good thing being driven into the ground...

 

[TRF_heineken]

If I was a Bokke supporter, I would have been getting worried last year or even earlier when the coach kept going back to players who have moved on to Europe (I'm thinking of Matfield and Bakkies but you will probably know others). To me, if you keep having to go back to those long-in-the-tooth players it means you don't have faith in the newer guys. Etzebeth is scarily good for his age and will only improve, but I don't see a real up and comer to go with him,; at least not one that Meyer has any faith in.

Actually HM has shown faith in the young guys cookie. Especially at the Lock position. We have Etzebeth and Lood De Jager who both featured during this game. HM also played Pieter-Steph Du Toit, who is the youngest of these 3 guys, but he got injured late last year. The only reason why HM went back to the old guys was because of injuries. The other young lock in the Bok squad is Teboho Mohoje.

I also think when players go to Europe, their game does decline somewhat from a SH perspective because they are asked to play a different style. We have never been able to successfully crack the trick of bringing back players from Europe for the All Blacks. They either don't make the grade (Chris Jack) or they fail (Luke McAlister). Jerome Kaino seems to have made the transition from Japan Top League, but they play a similar style to Super-Rugby, albeit at a much lower level.

The other thing that must be worrying for the Bokke supporter is that Heyneke Meyer seems hell bent on playing the style of rugby that won them the Tri-Nations back in 2009, seemingly unable to understand that the game has long ago moved on. They haven't won 3N/RC since then. They proved that are capable of playing a more expansively in the final game at Ellis Park last year.

I don't know really. The one game we show that we can run from anywhere and show off our backline (Like the first game vs. Wales this year), then next game we are back to playing with the forwards and kicking every damn ball we get (like the first test vs. Argentina). While I do think we are evolving in our playing styles, we certainly need to improve in a bunch of areas.

My biggest concern is our defence. If we look at the first try the Aussies scored against us and also the try Tuculet scored 2 weeks ago, is that our defence is way too tight! and if the opposition go wide, it's an easy score.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The Boks are an awesome team, they had an average game, Aussie played above themselves and the Boks suffered from the referee.
Next weekend they could roll the AB's in the cake tin because they are that good.
One game is not worthy of the world no.2 getting all introspective.
Aussie are a class side and they delivered enough on the night.
The Boks didn't and they were unlucky.
Next week new game and a different scenario.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Well,

I decided to reserve my comments until I have calmed down a bit.

It's Monday and I'm still not calmed down. So I'm hesitant to say much because I know guys like InsaneAsylum and Big E will just go and dig up old posts and throw "Bryce Lawrence" in my face.

Seems like the Bokke will just have That One Test - Every ****ing Year!!

I wont give you a ribbing over this one mate, we got lucky again. Both Wallabies and boks have a lot of improvement in them.

 

[Icemn]

I'd say there were quite a lot of Saffers in the crowd judging by how loud the "beeaast!" calls were every time Tendai Mtawarira got the ball.

I'd love to see Tendai's running metres stats with ball in hand over the last couple of years...

Everytime he ges ball, the crowd only gets to the the "BEEE" part before he hits the deck like a ton of bricks, literally...

So "BEEE" can amount to 1.2 seconds, how many metres can n prob make in 1.2sec?

The crowd never gets to say "AASSTTT", only time i heard them say the full beast was last year at ellis park when it was his 50th and he ran onto the field...

Anyways, he gets ball about 3maybe 4 times a game, for 1.2 seconds...

So its 3m he runs per game... Some beast he is...

 

[Draggs]

Did the ref decide against going for posts earlier when 20-14?
Did the ref miss touch with a penalty with three minutes on the clock?
Did the ref kick the restart short?

Blaming the ref is a disservice, yeah he was poor, but so were the Boks. Solely blaming Clancy (which I love to do) will get nothing fixed. Meyer is having an awful time managing his players. I don't think JdV is up to the captaincy, nor is he is the best or second best centre. Every game so far, the Bols have turned down a kickable penalty, and now it might have cost them. The front row is bad, and has been for a while, this is no surprise. Jannie has had almost no rest; Tendai has been given a break thanks to Gurthro, and Bismarck with Adriaan, but nothing for Jannie.

Halfbacks, well, nothing more to be said there I guess. I've been banging on about Pienaar's slow service since before RWC2011. Steyn is Steyn, anybody who has seen him for Stade shouldn't be surprised. I think le Roux's mistakes are more due to the fact that there is no leadership in the backs, so he is left trying to make something.

 

[Jaguares]

I watched the game again and I must say that Australia was better and deserved to win. SA only was kicks, Australia had 3 opportunities for tries:

1- Kuridrani's run after the first try (Only was 3 points)
2- Knock on of AAC in the SA's ingoal
3- Obstruction of Simmons on the SA's ingoal too

 

[Big Ewis]

Boks weren't as bad as many are saying here. It's very positive and constructive to employ self criticism and be hard on your team, but let's not forge the Boks were on the verge of beating the Aussies at home, something even mighty France couldn't do in 3 attempts. A very untimely (and wrong, as I remember it) yellow, although the game-winner was scored at XV apiece again...reading a lot of comments here, someone would imagine the Boks were just lifeless...they were up 14-23 at the 62nd. Yes I know, and they stopped scoring after that and let it all slip...but my point is the Boks definitely had something to show for last weekend away from home.
I'm not counting on a pounding in NZ, and although it is possible, I think it'll be closer than most ppl think.

 

[RoosTah]

Boks weren't as bad as many are saying here. It's very positive and constructive to employ self criticism and be hard on your team, but let's not forge the Boks were on the verge of beating the Aussies at home, something even mighty France couldn't do in 3 attempts. A very untimely (and wrong, as I remember it) yellow, although the game-winner was scored at XV apiece again...reading a lot of comments here, someone would imagine the Boks were just lifeless...they were up 14-23 at the 62nd. Yes I know, and they stopped scoring after that and let it all slip...but my point is the Boks definitely had something to show for last weekend away from home.
I'm not counting on a pounding in NZ, and although it is possible, I think it'll be closer than most ppl think.

The boks played dumb rugby, and so did the Wallabies, it's just that the boks rugby was dumber by enough for the Wallabies to snatch the win. The boks had some great periods with their kicking, but they massively overused it and to a large extent allowed the Wallabies to dictate the back end of the match. Meanwhile, the Wallabies played with a serious lack of maturity, often giving up great opportunities for field position in favour of pointless quick taps and then when they decided to kick they did it poorly. It was only late in the second half when we had to run it that we started to play more to our strengths.

 

[William18]

Boks weren't as bad as many are saying here. It's very positive and constructive to employ self criticism and be hard on your team, but let's not forge the Boks were on the verge of beating the Aussies at home, something even mighty France couldn't do in 3 attempts. A very untimely (and wrong, as I remember it) yellow, although the game-winner was scored at XV apiece again...reading a lot of comments here, someone would imagine the Boks were just lifeless...they were up 14-23 at the 62nd. Yes I know, and they stopped scoring after that and let it all slip...but my point is the Boks definitely had something to show for last weekend away from home.
I'm not counting on a pounding in NZ, and although it is possible, I think it'll be closer than most ppl think.

South Africa could win this weekend (anyone can) but I wouldn't count on it. Australia were very poor as well and would be very well criticised if they had lost.

The problem with South Africa is their tactics are just illogical:
- "We are going to tell our best counter attacking player to kick all the time!"
- "We are going to play for field position and then refuse to kick penalty goals which are the reward for field position!"
- "We are going to play a game which revolves around kicking and refuse to chase our kicks1"
- "We are going to play a game which depends on accuracy and miss touch from penalties, kick out on the full and not kick kick offs 1 0 metres!"

South Africa's tactics were ridiculous. It was probably the worst coaching display I can remember (or else the players are unable to follow a simple game plan).

 

[InsaneAsylum]

South Africa could win this weekend (anyone can) but I wouldn't count on it. Australia were very poor as well and would be very well criticised if they had lost.

The problem with South Africa is their tactics are just illogical:
- "We are going to tell our best counter attacking player to kick all the time!"
- "We are going to play for field position and then refuse to kick penalty goals which are the reward for field position!"
- "We are going to play a game which revolves around kicking and refuse to chase our kicks1"
- "We are going to play a game which depends on accuracy and miss touch from penalties, kick out on the full and not kick kick offs 1 0 metres!"

South Africa's tactics were ridiculous. It was probably the worst coaching display I can remember (or else the players are unable to follow a simple game plan).

The saddest thing is SA have some incredibly talented players, we saw what they could do last year. what meyer is doing with/to them is beyond me.

is it too soon to bring back P.Divvy?

 

[Icemn]

Did the ref decide against going for posts earlier when 20-14?
Did the ref miss touch with a penalty with three minutes on the clock?
Did the ref kick the restart short?

Blaming the ref is a disservice, yeah he was poor, but so were the Boks. Solely blaming Clancy (which I love to do) will get nothing fixed. Meyer is having an awful time managing his players. I don't think JdV is up to the captaincy, nor is he is the best or second best centre. Every game so far, the Bols have turned down a kickable penalty, and now it might have cost them. The front row is bad, and has been for a while, this is no surprise. Jannie has had almost no rest; Tendai has been given a break thanks to Gurthro, and Bismarck with Adriaan, but nothing for Jannie.

Halfbacks, well, nothing more to be said there I guess. I've been banging on about Pienaar's slow service since before RWC2011. Steyn is Steyn, anybody who has seen him for Stade shouldn't be surprised. I think le Roux's mistakes are more due to the fact that there is no leadership in the backs, so he is left trying to make something.

give this man a fcking bells aswell!!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Did the ref decide against going for posts earlier when 20-14?
Did the ref miss touch with a penalty with three minutes on the clock?
Did the ref kick the restart short?

Blaming the ref is a disservice, yeah he was poor, but so were the Boks. Solely blaming Clancy (which I love to do) will get nothing fixed. Meyer is having an awful time managing his players. I don't think JdV is up to the captaincy, nor is he is the best or second best centre. Every game so far, the Bols have turned down a kickable penalty, and now it might have cost them. The front row is bad, and has been for a while, this is no surprise. Jannie has had almost no rest; Tendai has been given a break thanks to Gurthro, and Bismarck with Adriaan, but nothing for Jannie.

Halfbacks, well, nothing more to be said there I guess. I've been banging on about Pienaar's slow service since before RWC2011. Steyn is Steyn, anybody who has seen him for Stade shouldn't be surprised. I think le Roux's mistakes are more due to the fact that there is no leadership in the backs, so he is left trying to make something.

I agree with you Draggsie, But there simply has to be something done about the refs consistantly costing us games. Whether we like it or not, their influence in games is big. And in this game, 2 terrible calls cost the Boks 17 points. if it weren't for those calls, we would have won. Even if our performance was not up to scratch.

South Africa could win this weekend (anyone can) but I wouldn't count on it. Australia were very poor as well and would be very well criticised if they had lost.

The problem with South Africa is their tactics are just illogical:
- "We are going to tell our best counter attacking player to kick all the time!"
- "We are going to play for field position and then refuse to kick penalty goals which are the reward for field position!"
- "We are going to play a game which revolves around kicking and refuse to chase our kicks1"
- "We are going to play a game which depends on accuracy and miss touch from penalties, kick out on the full and not kick kick offs 1 0 metres!"

South Africa's tactics were ridiculous. It was probably the worst coaching display I can remember (or else the players are unable to follow a simple game plan).

the use of the boot was IMHO a method to counter Israel Folau. Willie had some good kicks to the corners to push Folau back and to get our lineouts in good positions. But you have to consider the wind in the game too. The short kick-off was by Australia, and Jean De Villiers played the ball within the 50 and 10 metre line. The Aussies turned the ball over and got in a good position.

in the Second Half we had the wind at our backs, and couldn't chase the kicks as well as we wanted because it kept on going too far.

 

[Big Ewis]

South Africa could win this weekend (anyone can) but I wouldn't count on it. Australia were very poor as well and would be very well criticised if they had lost.

The problem with South Africa is their tactics are just illogical:
- "We are going to tell our best counter attacking player to kick all the time!"
- "We are going to play for field position and then refuse to kick penalty goals which are the reward for field position!"
- "We are going to play a game which revolves around kicking and refuse to chase our kicks1"
- "We are going to play a game which depends on accuracy and miss touch from penalties, kick out on the full and not kick kick offs 1 0 metres!"

South Africa's tactics were ridiculous. It was probably the worst coaching display I can remember (or else the players are unable to follow a simple game plan).

ohohoho beware the things you claim my friend, bewaaare !!! There is another side that has failed in Australia recently, and it was tenfold the bad coaching we've seen last weekend from the Boks. You speak too quickly, don't you underestimate the soon-to-be-legendary incompetence of some !! You are not worthy...

 

[William18]

I agree with you Draggsie, But there simply has to be something done about the refs consistantly costing us games. Whether we like it or not, their influence in games is big. And in this game, 2 terrible calls cost the Boks 17 points. if it weren't for those calls, we would have won. Even if our performance was not up to scratch.



the use of the boot was IMHO a method to counter Israel Folau. Willie had some good kicks to the corners to push Folau back and to get our lineouts in good positions. But you have to consider the wind in the game too. The short kick-off was by Australia, and Jean De Villiers played the ball within the 50 and 10 metre line. The Aussies turned the ball over and got in a good position.

in the Second Half we had the wind at our backs, and couldn't chase the kicks as well as we wanted because it kept on going too far.

See but these are things you need to get right if you are playing that sort of game. If the kicks aren't working you should try something else. Even if you do 5 good kicks into the corner than is going to be completely undone if just 2 go out on the full or dead. Perhaps you could also criticise South Africa for just sitting on the lead and allowing the referee to play a role?

I just feel man for man you guys are so much better than Australia.

 

[TRF_heineken]

See but these are things you need to get right if you are playing that sort of game. If the kicks aren't working you should try something else. Even if you do 5 good kicks into the corner than is going to be completely undone if just 2 go out on the full or dead. Perhaps you could also criticise South Africa for just sitting on the lead and allowing the referee to play a role?

I just feel man for man you guys are so much better than Australia.

We are. At least in my mind we are. I think the end result has made the criticism about certain areas so much harsher than what it should be. I felt our kicking was good, despite the wind. I thought we used the territorial gains to a better effect than the Aussies. it was one kick at goal that Morne missed and then the dreaded kick for touch. All round, we kicked much better than the Aussies.

If the Boks had won, I think the criticism would have been shifted to other areas.