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2014 Super Rugby: Crusaders v Stormers (Round 4)

I don't think the number of tackles alone tell us a lot about how good (or otherwise) the attack (or defense) was. For example in the Reds 43-33 victory over the Cheetahs the sides combined to make 240 tackles - exactly the same number as in the Crusaders vs Stormers match. Amazingly there were almost exactly the same number of missed tackles in both matches too (28 in the Crusaders match, 27 in the Reds match). These results can probably be interpreted several ways - you could suggest that the defense in the Cheetahs vs Stormers match was just as good as in the Crusaders vs Reds match (but the scoreline would suggest otherwise!). The difference between the two matches was the number of actual linebreaks,as there were 3 times as many linebreaks in the Reds match. While the Crusaders and the Stormers players were breaking the odd tackle they weren't running very directly (the Crusaders in particular), so few of there broken tackles resulted in linebreaks. In addition when they did break the line (or get over the advantage line by breaking a tackle) the ball recycling was very slow, which meant the opposition defense was able to be re-set. It was somewhat telling in my opinion that the Crusaders try was scored directly after a breakdown where the ball wasn't overly well protected at the base, forcing Ellis to deliver the ball quickly to the backs, catching the Stormers on the back-foot.

I wasn't suggesting that the quality of the attack be solely judged on the number of tackles made, but also on the quality of the defense/where and when the tackles were made, and that the number of clean line breaks by either team was as a result of the good defense ... I say the attack wasn't as good as it could have been because of the good defense, you say the defense looked better because of the poor attack ... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I agree that George Whitelock should be starting at 6. The only reason I suggested Taufua at 6 is because starting is probably the only way he will get on the field for the Crusaders - he spent 80 minutes against the Stormers sitting on the bench.

I agree that I would like to see Taufua get some game time, and that the blindside flank is the likely position that that will occur, but I feel that it will have to occur off the bench because the Whitelock brothers offer a lineout option that Taufua probably doesn't

I'm not sure I've seen enough to suggest "normal business will resume" yet. They scrapped though with a victory over a rather ordinary Stormers side (a side that lost by 25 to the Lions a couple of weeks ago!). However I'm pretty confident that normal business will resume soon or later. Simply because it always does with the Crusaders. They have far too much experience and talent in their ranks not to sort themselves out. Hopefully they can get a good win over the Rebels in the weekend (though they have had issues with them in the past), as they certainly don't want to go into the bye with only a single win.

I don't think your being completely fair to the Stormers there ... I would suggest that their effort (particularly on defense), suggests that "normal business has, or is close to resuming ... you can't really compare them to how they were playing a couple of weeks ago. my comment about normal business resuming for the Crusaders was more to do with them not making the mistakes, like over running the passes on attack (like they id against the Chiefs), and chasing down and making the covering tackles (a better defensive effort than against the Blues). It's hard to put my finger on it, but I think that they aren't trying to play as a bunch of individuals as much, and the forwards seem to have a much better performance in open play, than in previous weeks ... as I said, it was an indication that "normal business will resume" not "has resumed"

I'm not convinced about Fonotia at this level. He is certainly big and strong, but he isn't overly dynamic, and is rather predictable. However I can certainly see your reasoning for including him, and I do think he could help straighten the Crusaders attack somewhat (as it is very lateral at times). He scored a try with his only touch of the ball on Saturday, so you couldn't have really asked for much more than that!

No, I'm not convinced about Fonotia at this level yet either ... but, Lee-lo has yet to fire, and my case for giving him a go, is that the Crusaders in previous years, have relied on their 13 to break the gain line for them, and they have used big players to do it ala Fruean and Laulala. While I don't profess to being an expert on back play by any means, I have noted that a good pairing of 12 and 13, that know each others play, seems to go a long way towards a teams success, and Crotty and Fonotia have been playing together since they were nippers ... not suggesting that Fonotia is definitely the solution, just worth starting to see if he's up to it ... they can always bring Slade on to take over the 10 sport, and move Taylor and Crotty out to 12 and 13, if things go wrong
 
Wonder what the comments would have been had the "poor" Stormers snatched this one.
Stormers seems to be on the way up again but the Saders seems to be on the road to nowhere right now
 
I wasn't suggesting that the quality of the attack be solely judged on the number of tackles made, but also on the quality of the defense/where and when the tackles were made, and that the number of clean line breaks by either team was as a result of the good defense ... I say the attack wasn't as good as it could have been because of the good defense, you say the defense looked better because of the poor attack ... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Yeah I know you weren't suggesting that attack/defense should be judged entirely by tackles made - I just found it quite astounding that two contrasting games could have such strikingly similar tackle stats. As you say it can be hard to determine whether a lack of linebreaks is due to poor attack or fantastic defense. I just felt he Crusaders ball recycling was painfully slow at times, they attacked far too laterally, they showed no variety in their attack (did they once have someone cutting back against the traffic?) and when they were attacking close to the breakdown they were running at the man rather than at the gap. I believe they could be far more effective on attack (and I'm sure will be as the season progresses). As you suggest I think we will have to agree to disagree about this issue though :)

I don't think your being completely fair to the Stormers there ... I would suggest that their effort (particularly on defense), suggests that "normal business has, or is close to resuming ... you can't really compare them to how they were playing a couple of weeks ago. my comment about normal business resuming for the Crusaders was more to do with them not making the mistakes, like over running the passes on attack (like they id against the Chiefs), and chasing down and making the covering tackles (a better defensive effort than against the Blues). It's hard to put my finger on it, but I think that they aren't trying to play as a bunch of individuals as much, and the forwards seem to have a much better performance in open play, than in previous weeks ... as I said, it was an indication that "normal business will resume" not "has resumed"

I don't think I was being too unfair to the Stormers - I just think they (like the Crusaders) can play a lot better than they currently are. They defended well and made a couple of nice breaks in attack. However they made too many unforced errors and struggled a bit on their own set-piece (though competed well on the Crusaders throws). I do agree both sides showed a few positives signs.... perhaps I'm just a bit more pessimistic than you so need a bit more convincing ;)

I agree that I would like to see Taufua get some game time, and that the blindside flank is the likely position that that will occur, but I feel that it will have to occur off the bench because the Whitelock brothers offer a lineout option that Taufua probably doesn't

No, I'm not convinced about Fonotia at this level yet either ... but, Lee-lo has yet to fire, and my case for giving him a go, is that the Crusaders in previous years, have relied on their 13 to break the gain line for them, and they have used big players to do it ala Fruean and Laulala. While I don't profess to being an expert on back play by any means, I have noted that a good pairing of 12 and 13, that know each others play, seems to go a long way towards a teams success, and Crotty and Fonotia have been playing together since they were nippers ... not suggesting that Fonotia is definitely the solution, just worth starting to see if he's up to it ... they can always bring Slade on to take over the 10 sport, and move Taylor and Crotty out to 12 and 13, if things go wrong

I agree with these two points. I feel if Taufua was a few inches taller he would be getting a lot more game time...

Wonder what the comments would have been had the "poor" Stormers snatched this one.
Stormers seems to be on the way up again but the Saders seems to be on the road to nowhere right now

My comments wouldn't have changed much. I thought both teams were below their best, and felt the best team didn't necessarily win....

I think it would be a big mistake to write the Crusaders off... the last time the didn't make the Super Rugby playoffs was sometime in the 1800s if I recall correctly ;) I would be shocked if they don't see the "Crusaders of old" before too long....
 
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