2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[goodNumber10]

Brendan Gallagher (who annoys me no end) has made the point that Hendre Pollard and Sean McMahon are both now playing for their respective international sides after competing in this year's JWC
Yet Maro Itoje, who was at least, if not more impressive than any other forward in the competition is playing A league and LV cup games.

Now, I'm not saying he should be in the senior England squad, but surely it's wrong that the guy isn't playing premiership rugby?

Both were playing Super Rugby prior to the JWC though, Itoje wasn't playing premiership was he? Itoje is also in a position where A: the Union don't control the progression from u20's to seniors, B: he's playing in a much more competitive position than the two other lads - an area of strength for us infact.

Also lets factor in he's at Sarries, if he was at a different club?

Maybe there needs to be a bonus for clubs to bring through U20 players?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Both were playing Super Rugby prior to the JWC though, Itoje wasn't playing premiership was he? Itoje is also in a position where A: the Union don't control the progression from u20's to seniors, B: he's playing in a much more competitive posotion than the two other lads - an area of strength for us infcat.

That's the point - young players playing because they are good.

I know why he isn't playing, I'm pointing out how stupid it is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Saracens have depth in the backrow/lock - have done for a while. He'll get his chance eventually (especially if he keeps impressing in the LV=) and if he doesn't then he'll move somewhere he can get more game time. I don't see it as a particular travesty, despite how good he is. He's only just turned 20.

 

[Peat]

Itoje wasn't playing Premiership then and isn't playing Premiership now. The RFU can't control that, but it is annoying.

edit: In general, the rate at which our players hit Premiership rugby quickly has slowed dramatically in the last four years or so.

 

[goodNumber10]

That's the point - young players playing because they are good.

I know why he isn't playing, I'm pointing out how stupid it is.

I'm just saying that Gallaghers article is a bit disengenious they could have very well been selected despite being in the JWC.

It's all very well saying he's good he should be playing, and Itoje could probably be playing if he'd gone to a different club, but he's at Sarries where they have back 5 coming out their ar*es, he's being held out by better players.

Liek i said maybe they need to encourage AP clubs to bring young players on?

Saracens have depth in the backrow/lock - have done for a while. He'll get his chance eventually (especially if he keeps impressing in the LV=) and if he doesn't then he'll move somewhere he can get more game time. I don't see it as a particular travesty, despite how good he is. He's only just turned 20.

Exactly.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I was really annoyed by the Hamilton signing because it was always going to stump Itoje's development. He is obviously highly rated by Saracens though as he is the captain in the LV games and Storm, even when playing with Burger(who i belived use to be Namibia captain ?). I think during the AI and 6 nations he will play alot of games from the bench and start some weaker games. Next year we should have Itoje and Kruis in the engine room and I can't wait.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I haven't read any articles he's written - his obsession with Armitage leads me to believe the man has the mind of a child.

I completely disagree that someone like Jackson Wray is a better player than Itoje.

It's just that a player like him would have played a lot more domestic rugby had he been in one of the big 3 setups - which I think you'd be hard pressed to argue aren't better at bringing their kids through from the u20s.
And therefore actually be able to show whether or not he could be in contention for international duty.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I do worry about the apparent trend towards greater financial disparity between the top and the bottom in English and European rugby (yes I know Bath is implicated in that), but I wonder if one positive side might be that weaker sides start bringing more young players through - especially if the RFU subsidises some academies. Even a more common loan system, whereby players like Itoje (I have to be honest I'd never heard of him) might play for a bottom half club for a season to get game time against premiership opposition. I know there are issues with for the domestic game with essentially casting the little guys as mere feeder clubs for the big boys, I'm not saying it's perfect, but potential benefits?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lots of prem sides loan to championship clubs, but it's not quite the same as the premiership.
Understandably they don't really want other clubs to have access to their players.

If you haven't heard of Itoje then i'm assuming you don't watch much u20 internationals.
I'd highly recommend you do - over the last 2-3 years it's been very high quality - as evidenced by the rise of players like Pollard and McMahon, who, not 6 months ago, were playing in the JWC.
I think that he's going to be England's first black captain.

 

[Every Time Ref]

You're right, I don't ... there's only so much the missus will put up with

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jason Robinson captained England.

 

[Peat]

Problem is, big financial disparities bring the opposite - why invest in training youngsters who won't hang around? Particularly if you need every penny to keep your side strong to begin with.

The RFU's subsidising the academies already.

I hope they don't keep pushing the salary cap is all I can say.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Jason Robinson captained England.

Robinson is mixed-race.

 

[Maverick1987]

How have the other u20s been getting on ? I know I've seen Moriarty playing for glos but haven't seen much of the others . Nathan Earle looks a serious player from what I've seen of him

I really believe that the next group of players will be better than the ones we have now .

There will be plenty of this EPS still around too add in a few of the kids that won the last 2 JWC and we could see some pedigree .

 

[Peat]

Tom Fowlie is probably the breakout player at this stage - no surprise when you consider he can play back three, is physically mature and is at a relatively small club.

Purdy (wisely left Tigers early), Sloan (at Quins), and Tompkins (clearly freakishly talented) have also seen gametime out of the other backs. In the forwards, Ewels (injury crisis beneficiary) is the only one who's got much other than Moriarty I think.

 

[goodNumber10]

little piece by charlie Morgan on the importance of Brad Barritt, worth a read:

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries...r-analysis-brad-barritt-englands-mr-reliable/

 

[barkinghooker]

It's good to see Barritt back. I don't know why people don't like him. Didn't he play well in the Crusaders game ? Tuilagi is always gonna be around the 23 when fit so I think Barritt is vital (i know Tuilagi ain't playing this weekend )


Here's a question for you lot. As much as I love rugby I still don't know enough positionally but I've always felt a flanker with good hands could probably be moulded in to a 13 . I think a legendary irish centre could of been a flanker with his reasonable size and amount of turnovers .
The England that took on the world was amazing at the ruck and got plenty of turnover or at least force a scrum. I don't think we are that intensive in defence but tackle well. I've always preferred 'defensive ' midfielders when picking teams.

 

[Peat]

If that pass is well timed, then that statement does not mean what I think it means...

Eh. No point arguing on it now. Be interesting to see how he goes in a big game at 13.

Also, yes, you *could* mould a flanker with good hands into a 13, providing they also happen to have the pace and agility for it. Reality is, the amount of time it would take makes it not really worth it, unless you get a back row with undoubted talent but whose lack of bulk is holding them back at the top level. Think they're doing it with Ritchie Vernon at the moment, they were talking about doing it with Alex Gray before he went to 7s. Tom Guest should have done it for my money.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If that pass is well timed, then that statement does not mean what I think it means...

Absolutely.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Tipuric could have been a centre.