2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[TRF_Olyy]

bit like Kvesic

No need for the smiley, Kvesic is definitely still dining out on his wuss form.
He's been good for Gloucester, but like 75% as good as he was before the move (and I don't buy the whole "but he was in a beaten pack!!!!!!!!" because Worcesters pack wasn't exactly spectacular).

 

[Josht36]

Foden was possibly Saints best player today. Hopefully he can continue that form and give Brown something to worry about.

 

[Maverick1987]

If Farrell misses out because of injury then fair enough he should wait until he gets back in on merit.

Conversely if he is the best option he shouldn't be made to sit on the bench for the sake of experimentation.

This is test match rugby Lancaster should be picking his best side no matter what.

10 is not the issue 12 is. If you don't have a 12 who can run the game off your 10 then no point picking Burns, Ford or Cipriani.

Ford is good, but it's raining that is the spark not ford. Burns looks good, but he didn't without Allen outside him... And so on.

And sorry but defence has to be a big consideration. We all sit and criticise Cooper, or ROG for not taking now because Weber for a couple of 10 that can run were all "it didn't matter". Sorry but it does.

I can't see your idea of 12 is the problem not 10 the partnership between the 2 positions is the problem . I'd like to see Cipriani play at 10 and move tuilagi to 12 as I believe Manu is as dangerous without the ball as he is with it . Inside of a nippy outside centre who will bring the wings and FB into the game could be devastating .

Also I don't buy into living sacrifices idea that brown isn't the best fb in England . You seem to just argue a case for Northampton players imo ......

Also I don't agree with your idea that it's eastmond pulling the strings not ford I think it's the partnership that's quality and both are creating plenty of chances for the outside backs

 

[Peat]

No need for the smiley, Kvesic is definitely still dining out on his wuss form.
He's been good for Gloucester, but like 75% as good as he was before the move (and I don't buy the whole "but he was in a beaten pack!!!!!!!!" because Worcesters pack wasn't exactly spectacular).

You're right, and I'll hold my hands up as someone who made that argument, but I feel the argument holds water still if you change the words "beaten pack" for "dysfunctional club", those being the words I was possibly looking for to begin with. Not that it changes anything - he's not playing as well as he did at Wuss, regardless of reason for this, and he will struggle to crack the England team until he does, regardless of reason.

There's one for a weekly XV thread - players who haven't been good for a while now. Ben Youngs springs to mind...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I can't see your idea of 12 is the problem not 10 the partnership between the 2 positions is the problem . I'd like to see Cipriani play at 10 and move tuilagi to 12 as I believe Manu is as dangerous without the ball as he is with it . Inside of a nippy outside centre who will bring the wings and FB into the game could be devastating .

Also I don't buy into living sacrifices idea that brown isn't the best fb in England . You seem to just argue a case for Northampton players imo ......

Also I don't agree with your idea that it's eastmond pulling the strings not ford I think it's the partnership that's quality and both are creating plenty of chances for the outside backs

I didn't say brown wasn't the best fullback I england. Only that he is not crucial for England. We have many talented fullbacks who could all fit in to the current set up.

I think getting the 10 12 13 sorted is much more important.

And I didn't just support saints a players as I suggested nowell, Watson and others.

 

[Geordie]

A few positions...

No.8:
Hows Ben Morgan been playing? OR has he been playing at all. Personally, at his best I think hes better than Billy V.

Second Row:
Also Attwood has been smashing things left right and centre for Bath this season. Launchbury looked shattered in NZ this summer....so we need to make sure we keep all these guys fit for the WC. Attwood, Lawes, Launchbury must all get games.

Also how would people feel about a midfield like:
9 Care
10 Cipriani / Ford
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi

Care and a more creative 10 to make the plays. Barritt the defensive leader and rock...and Manu the beast. Manu isn't great at using his wings though so having Care and a creative 10 gives you the ability to do that. And hopefully make use of Manu aswell...putting him through gaps rather than relying on crashing all the time.

Or would you say Burrell offers the same defensive ability as Barritt but more offensively?

Finally what about 6?
Is Tom Wood the quiet one who does the dirty work and is irreplaceable?
What about bringing in some power? Haskell or Ewers...maybe even Garvey if he find forms when he returns from injury? The guy is immense.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Burrell offering the same defensive ability as Barritt? Not a chance.
You wont find a better defensive back in the world than Brad Barritt IMO
Burrell aint exactly a brick wall - on the contrary, he's not the strongest defensively.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also having seen the Bath vs Saints game, Eastmond seemed to offer much more than Burrell did. Originally I was more exciting about having Burrell in the centres but I've changed my mind. I'd want a Care, Ford, Eastmond partnership as all of them can threaten the line in their own right as well as have a good passing game.

 

[Patchey]

Without wanting to be a mahussive brown nose, you should all watch GN10s video on Baths attack if you haven't already. On a casual viewing he looks very good but once you see his role in Bath's attack broken down and looked at in detail he looks even better.

9. Care, 10. Ford, 12. Eastmond would, as Ragerancher suggests, would be grand.

However I am also very impressed with Sam Hill. I don't think he'll make the EPS in the Autumn (whereas Slade will) but we could do a lots worse than having Eastmond and Hill competing for the shirt.

A few positions...

No.8:
Hows Ben Morgan been playing? OR has he been playing at all. Personally, at his best I think hes better than Billy V.


Finally what about 6?
Is Tom Wood the quiet one who does the dirty work and is irreplaceable?
What about bringing in some power? Haskell or Ewers...maybe even Garvey if he find forms when he returns from injury? The guy is immense.

Aye, IMO Morgan is a slightly smarter player and while Billy may be slightly harder to stop physically, Morgan runs better lines and is far less predicatable. I think he's been quietly playing well so far.


6? Well how about Robshaw at six and Haskell at seven...

 

[Geordie]

Burrell offering the same defensive ability as Barritt? Not a chance.
You wont find a better defensive back in the world than Brad Barritt IMO
Burrell aint exactly a brick wall - on the contrary, he's not the strongest defensively.

So do you think whilst many of us moaned about Barritts selection (i did myself) we didnt realise what he brought to the team...and with a bit more attacking ability around him like Cips / Ford, Care etc...he should be selected at 12. He also covers Cipriani or Fords lack of defensive ability.

 

[Geordie]

Patchey,

I just think when Morgan is firing he does show a bit more intelligence...in that hes more than capable of running through people...but he often looks for the space and the gaps.. whereas Billy seems to mostly go for contact. I may be wrong but just my opinion. If both were at the top of their game i would be starting Morgan.

Robshaw / Haskell well that would certainly be an option...Haskell is a big guy and offers so much.

Personally i have always been a fan of Matt Garvey and i really think we missed the boat with not having him at 6.

Tom Wood and Robshaw and most of the other players like that are excellent / athletic etc...but sometimes i just feel you need a few guys in there that are just powerhouses...and can knock people back 5 yards in the tackle or in the collisions specifically.....players like Haskell, Garvey, Attwood (this season has come alive) etc are players who can do that. It puts your team on the front foot.

 

[ratsapprentice]

So do you think whilst many of us moaned about Barritts selection (i did myself) we didnt realise what he brought to the team...and with a bit more attacking ability around him like Cips / Ford, Care etc...he should be selected at 12. He also covers Cipriani or Fords lack of defensive ability.

No.

I can only speak for myself - but I've always thought he was basically unrivaled defensively... it's not a new thing.
The issue is that his attacking skills are severely limited on the international stage.

It doesn't really matter if you can trust someone 100% in defense if you are worried that they aren't going to be able to trouble their opposite number or contribute to counter-attack or set-piece moves.

 

[Geordie]

So who would be your choice at 12 Rats

 

[ratsapprentice]

Eastmond or Twelvetrees.

 

[TheSaffycen]

With Vunipola and Morgan, I think that Morgan should always start and Billy come off the bench. Though I don't think he can make the hard yards Billy can, Morgan's passing is brilliant and I feel confident seeing him in the backline that he will move the ball on if it should go.
Who to have at 12 ? When I watch him it has to be Eastmond really, with Farrell injured Ford should start so the club partnership is good.

 

[goodNumber10]

Corbisiero out till 2015:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-shoulder-injury-playing-for-Northampton.html

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Parling told to rest for 2 months.

 

[TheSaffycen]

WHY GOD ?!?!?!?!!??!?!!? WE NEED CORBS FOR **** SAKE

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The only positive is that it's not his knees again.

Proper gutting though, I wanted to see him tearing up for England this autumn. Hopefully he's back fully fit for the 6N, though if he's only like 95% fit by then I'd just leave him out all together and bring him in in the Summer.
Despite not playing for England for...a while, he's very important to our RWC campaign.

 

[Big Ewis]

read the news earlier today...sorry for England. And yes as TRF Olive says, brilliant it isn't the knees. He'll most likely come back the way he is now. I'd like to emphasize though I'm not sure he's the player every English fan claims he is. He's fantastically mobile for a guy who's about 120kg, and surprisingly quick and athletic. He was also a good scrummager during those hip years, but tbf he (like many LH's, granted) almost always scrummed at an angle, and his power is unquestioned there but how many world class TH's has he really dominated ?? Everybody seems to have a mental image of the Lions scrum beating the shiit out of the Wallabies', and I don't watch Prem, but on the int'l scale ? I'm not doubting he was a very good scrummager, one of the best in the world at his prime, but if you watch him scrummage his angling is often ambiguous, although he's definitely a very good scrummager no doubt. VERY powerful upper body, great mobility, athletic, strong thighs, good technique..