2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[Patchey]

If Farrell missed all of the AI tests he should be allowed to try and get his shirt back in the 6 nations no matter how well the others play in the AI. It wouldn't be fair on Farrell to not get the opportunity as he really hasn't done anything wrong. People might think that there are better options but I don't think the guy has really ever let us down, unlike other guys who have had the shirt. Anyway lets give Ford, Burns and Cips a go, this would probably mean Eastmond starting 12 because of his club partnership.

You think Ford, Burns or Cips have let England down? Or were you refering to past 10s in general who have let England down? I can certainly agree with you on that one. Farrell hasn't let us down by any real fault of his own (one or two dodgy kicking performances in big games weren't great) but I'd say his selection to the detriment of giving other 10s a chance has let England down as a whole. Not his fault of course.

I'm not saying he should be dropped for good if another guy has a good few games, just wondering how the dynamic would work afterwards. Presumably you'd say it wouldn't be fair not to give Farrell a chance to win the shirt back, but then wouldn't it also not be fair for him to waltz back in to the starting berth if say Burns comes in a plays well (on top of three good showins in NZ)? And what about Ford or Burns not getting a chance to win the shirt until Farrell falls over injured?

 

[TheSaffycen]

Just England players in general. Ashton has come to mind, when I said the shirt i meant the England shirt.
No I don't want him to be 10 elect and not have another challenge, I just don't think it would be fair if he missed this tour, then he doesn't get a chance in the 6 nations to show why he should be the number one choice. Also would you say 3 good performances in New Zealand ? First test was very good, the second I can't remember how long he played but I remember Farrell was injured, the third was a pure **** show.

 

[Wendigo7]

I might also just be a very anti-english ideological person in general though.

I detest the idea of playing a solid 10, Wilko was never a solid 10. Farrell gives off the perception that he is very solid and dependable, but Flood has a better kicking ratio in a worse England team so it's hard to say.

I'd prefer more balance in general regardless of the 10 idea. It's all very disjointed currently from 9 onwards with no real thought about what we're trying to achieve ball in hand. It's all set to be about playing for territory, trying to force a turnover or penalty if we can and build points.

That's fine and perfectly acceptable, but against NZ and probably SA, it won't cut it and we need a bit more than just being reliable because SA are bigger than ourselves and NZ won't need many opportunities to score tries, of which 3 point deficits won't match in return from ourselves. They also would never pick a "solid 10". They'd pick a 10 with very high basics, very good passing and have a good balance in the backline. Something we haven't really ever got right post 1995 I'd argue.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Flood was a better player than given credit to. I wish he was still in England as he is probably the most complete English fly half going, he also brings his backline into play brilliantly. Johnson's best moments came with Flood playing instead of Wilkinson in my opinion, but he never managed to nail the shirt for some reason.

 

[goodNumber10]

If Farrell misses out because of injury then fair enough he should wait until he gets back in on merit.

Conversely if he is the best option he shouldn't be made to sit on the bench for the sake of experimentation.

This is test match rugby Lancaster should be picking his best side no matter what.

10 is not the issue 12 is. If you don't have a 12 who can run the game off your 10 then no point picking Burns, Ford or Cipriani.

Ford is good, but it's raining that is the spark not ford. Burns looks good, but he didn't without Allen outside him... And so on.

And sorry but defence has to be a big consideration. We all sit and criticise Cooper, or ROG for not taking now because Weber for a couple of 10 that can run were all "it didn't matter". Sorry but it does.

 

[Big Ewis]

Galan and Camara for Chris Ashton.

Double or Nothing. We'll save them from Noves' oblivion (as seen tonight)

Hell no, way too dangerous no can do. England would actually know how to play those two...no it's Michalak and the free merch, heck we'll even throw in some cheap fabric miniature Eiffel towers for drone tourists and...quality printing gloss paper. All for 99.99, double digit baby.

 

[Peat]

It's certainly what you alluded to.

Maybe next time try what I actually wrote rather than what you believe I'm alluding to. Oh - also - the only guy whose percentage I said was within 2pc of Farrell was Burns, and I said he was 2pc worse. Not better. Worse.

It suggests nothing of the sort, you could at best compare them to each other or perhaps Farrells first 5 starts, but even then he kick 23/28 - which would actually give Farrell a lower % but then it doesn't factor in anything like difficulty or number of kicks (chance of missing goes up the more kicks you take % comes down).

Or maybe compare them to the same opposition, but stats really don't tell the whole truth.

Disagreed.

All i would say is people can discount Farrell at their own peril, but i certainly didn't see Gloucester, Bath or Sale in the HCup or Premierhsip finals last season.... and i would always feel more confident with OF on the pitch over the other 10's we keep discussing.

You appear to be suggesting that Saracens' better league placing is proof of Farrell's superiority as a fly-half. If that's not what you're trying to say, you might want to clarify it.

Has anyone said that defence doesn't matter either?

p.s. Ewis, everyone at my company uses that term, as do journalists at several major newspapers.

 

[Wendigo7]

If Farrell misses out because of injury then fair enough he should wait until he gets back in on merit.

Conversely if he is the best option he shouldn't be made to sit on the bench for the sake of experimentation.

This is test match rugby Lancaster should be picking his best side no matter what.

10 is not the issue 12 is. If you don't have a 12 who can run the game off your 10 then no point picking Burns, Ford or Cipriani.

Ford is good, but it's raining that is the spark not ford. Burns looks good, but he didn't without Allen outside him... And so on.

And sorry but defence has to be a big consideration. We all sit and criticise Cooper, or ROG for not taking now because Weber for a couple of 10 that can run were all "it didn't matter". Sorry but it does.

Yeah alot of good points and I to be honest agree with all of it.

That being said.. who's raining? :/???????

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah alot of good points and I to be honest agree with all of it.

That being said.. who's raining? :/???????

Auto correct for Eastmond

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Can we say Eastmond would be able to play that way outside Farrell though?

 

[goodNumber10]

Can we say Eastmond would be able to play that way outside Farrell though?

I can.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Good game.

Poor officiating at the scrums though, IMO. Saints' replacement front row were allowed to drive waaay before the ball went in - gained a good 1/2 foot in three consecutive scrums.
Should have kept the ball in during that last scrum and I think we may have won a penalty try, or even just scored from it.
Pretty good defensively again, barring some really bad individual tackle attempts.

Big Dave, Roko and Kyle are playing really well at the moment. A whole load of players are actually - I like the look of Henson at 15.

Only thing I really felt let down by was some inaccuracy at times in the lineout and in first phase moves.


How long is Cockers going to last?

 

[Peat]

How long is Cockers going to last?

Depends on whether you blame him for the injury list. Unless you suspect he's going to have an apoplexy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

How long is Cockers going to last?

One of the games you need to watch really before making a comment like that, Leicester played well, garner was awful and Burns kicking was crap.

lacked creativity in the first half but improved.

Rizzo, Manu and Logo coming back next week maybe.

Same with Thorn and Bai.

Benjamin looked good though.

And the two 22 year props played well.

Bristow was brilliant at LH.

It's only week 4 in the season, and Leicester have been a mixed bag, it is still no Noves.

Williams needs to be the kicker though that 58M kick was brilliant.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't brown is that crucial for England at all.

Stick foden or nowell or Watson In at full back and we'd be fine.

More important is getting the centres right

 

[goodNumber10]

Good game.

Poor officiating at the scrums though, IMO. Saints' replacement front row were allowed to drive waaay before the ball went in - gained a good 1/2 foot in three consecutive scrums.
Should have kept the ball in during that last scrum and I think we may have won a penalty try, or even just scored from it.
Pretty good defensively again, barring some really bad individual tackle attempts.

Big Dave, Roko and Kyle are playing really well at the moment. A whole load of players are actually - I like the look of Henson at 15.

Only thing I really felt let down by was some inaccuracy at times in the lineout and in first phase moves.


How long is Cockers going to last?

Henson has played 15 for Wales a few times iirc.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Just realised I posted that in the wrong thread...

Henson has played at 15 quite a lot, I meant in contrast to Arscott, who hasn't settled yet.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I prefer Foden to brown....

there I said.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think people's opinions of Foden are based on his form of 3-4 years ago.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think people's opinions of Foden are based on his form of 3-4 years ago.

bit like Kvesic

No seriously, i agree with you there, i am a fan of Foden but he's not been International class for a couple fo seasons, glimpses but he's too up and down. He doesn't return the ball like Brown and he just doesn't seem to beat defenders as much as he used to.

I'm a fan of Arscott though, i like how he hits the line.