2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[Ragey Erasmus]

Damn wish that man could stay injury free for a at least one year.

 

[Crapspray]

That the third time now he's come back from months out only to crock weeks later. It must be frustrating for him. And Saints; they've got, what, eight weeks worth of rugby out of him in a season?

I sort of wish that Lancaster had taken him to New Zealand now. Resting him clearly had bugger-all effect on his luck/curse.

Cue his return in January... only to be injured after two weeks and miss the whole Six Nations.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

read the news earlier today...sorry for England. And yes as TRF Olive says, brilliant it isn't the knees. He'll most likely come back the way he is now. I'd like to emphasize though I'm not sure he's the player every English fan claims he is. He's fantastically mobile for a guy who's about 120kg, and surprisingly quick and athletic. He was also a good scrummager during those hip years, but tbf he (like many LH's, granted) almost always scrummed at an angle, and his power is unquestioned there but how many world class TH's has he really dominated ?? Everybody seems to have a mental image of the Lions scrum beating the shiit out of the Wallabies', and I don't watch Prem, but on the int'l scale ? I'm not doubting he was a very good scrummager, one of the best in the world at his prime, but if you watch him scrummage his angling is often ambiguous, although he's definitely a very good scrummager no doubt. VERY powerful upper body, great mobility, athletic, strong thighs, good technique..

He's hands down the best scrummaging loosehead we have, that's why he's so important.
I'm not going to argue about how good he is on an international scale, but in terms of English props no one is as good.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I actually agree with both of you two...

He is our best scrummaging LH - no doubt about it.
But he does scrummage illegally a lot. That's clearly par for the course, but that's what a lot of his reputation as a destructive scrummager is on the back of.
If a ref (or all refs) suddenly decide to actually ping props for illegal angles then the number of penalties he will be able to force will drop significantly.
He's still a handful when he stays straight, but his position as automatic first choice when fit will be up for grabs.
Marler is much more honest in his technique and I think he just edges it in the loose.

 

[Peat]

edit: We are now definitely missing 5 of the 17 forwards in the last EPS for the next international window, and that's before we even do any European games...

Gotta say I prefer Corbs in the loose as well. Seems more powerful and effective than Marler, and just as busy.

There's no doubt he has made much use out of illegal scrummaging though. That said, I struggle to think of a tighthead he hasn't come out well against in England colours, save maybe his first game against Italy. Would be nice if he could just stay fit long enough to make some definitive judgements.

 

[psychic duck]

edit: We are now definitely missing 5 of the 17 forwards in the last EPS for the next international window, and that's before we even do any European games...

Gotta say I prefer Corbs in the loose as well. Seems more powerful and effective than Marler, and just as busy.

There's no doubt he has made much use out of illegal scrummaging though. That said, I struggle to think of a tighthead he hasn't come out well against in England colours, save maybe his first game against Italy. Would be nice if he could just stay fit long enough to make some definitive judgements.

A fit Adam Jones.

 

[Tony Manx]

Reckon Lancaster has to consider life without Corbs because with his injury record, how can he be relied on? Sorry, but true....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Certainly ^

The assumption should be that he isn't going to be fit, whilst hoping he will be.

 

[j'nuh]

12. Tuilagi
13. Slade

Thoughts?

 

[TheSaffycen]

Depends on the 10, if we have don't have a defensive leader then it's 3rd test v New Zealand all over again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

12. Tuilagi
13. Slade

Thoughts?

I can dig it.


I just want Slade involved somewhere in general.

Stick him at 1, now that Corbs is out.

 

[Big Ewis]

He's hands down the best scrummaging loosehead we have, that's why he's so important.
I'm not going to argue about how good he is on an international scale, but in terms of English props no one is as good.

tbf, he's more than just that. He's def. really good...but the times I've seen him bore in effectively, Ayerza style, on the opposing TH aren't legion. I was just watching this again:



In 2012, he was just 24yo. That's impressive work on Nicolas Mas and no rule changes or anything at the time. But you'll see him pick an outward angle, partially wheel, and then apply pressure back in. He drives in on the side, and that upper body strength along those powerful thighs help him do that. It's effective as it sometimes completely disrupts the TH's work and renders him a whole lot more vulnerable and less dominant. Now, LH's OFTEN do that, but Corbs does it in a seamless way, and is semi-on the side, semi-confrontational.
I don't even know if it's that illegal, the way he's doing it, and that's pretty damn good work against Mas, esp. for a 24yo buck, but I'm saying I've seen more destructive scrummaging jobs from other looseheads.
Corbisiero is definitely a very gifted athlete. And for a loosehead scrummager, his frame is of the utmost atypical: almost 190cm, a good 120kg (so large frame), everything I've said before (upper body strength, thighs, mobility...). A unique specimen.

 

[Patchey]

I'm I the only person not too fussed about Corbs being injured again?

I mean sure, its a pain and we'd be stronger with him, but we have much greater depth on that side of the scrum and he's been missing so much recently that you can't really say we're bad without him.

Also, he seems to be a perfect example of the 'class is permanent' cliche. He is out only unarguably world class player and he shows it by being able to slot back in and perform after long lay offs. So if he is fit again for the 6N I have no doubts he will be excellent as ever.

 

[Maverick1987]

I'm I the only person not too fussed about Corbs being injured again?

I mean sure, its a pain and we'd be stronger with him, but we have much greater depth on that side of the scrum and he's been missing so much recently that you can't really say we're bad without him.

Also, he seems to be a perfect example of the 'class is permanent' cliche. He is out only unarguably world class player and he shows it by being able to slot back in and perform after long lay offs. So if he is fit again for the 6N I have no doubts he will be excellent as ever.

I like you, you bring sunshine on a cloudy day

 

[Patchey]

I try, I try.

But seriously, I have fair in Joe and that Corbs will come back. In fact, can he not spent some of this enforced time out continuing rehab/strengthening on that knee?


Davy Wilson is the prop I'm terrified of losing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm conflicted over Marler, he looked a lot better over the summer but a lot worse this season - but then Quins as a whole aren't functioning, so hopefully once back in the England environment he'll thrive.

I suppose there is decent depth there- I don't trust Mako internationally as a scrummager, though.
Mullan has done well in his (albeit, short) international cameos. Waller is very promising, and even Brookes is scrummaging well at loosehead for Falcons (though I'd want him as our 2nd choice tighthead in the Autumn, so hopefully he can get some more game time there) - Harrison has started the season well, too.

I can see where you're coming from re: Corbs being out - he will be able to slot in and perform, however I do want him in the England squad as much as possible just so he's a real part of the pack in the run up to the RWC, and really gels well with the rest of the players. By the time the Six Nations rolls around it'll have been, what, over 18 months since his last cap? It was in Argentina, right?



Agree on Wilson, he's probably our most important player, just because our whole set piece goes to sh*t without him there.
Brookes looked promising in NZ, but not starting standard yet. Thomas is poor, and I'm not convinced he's significantly better this season (at least not enough to hold his own internationally), Collier has regressed and Sinkler doesn't look as good this season as last.

Though there's always Doran-Jones ready to come to the rescue!

 

[Patchey]

Marler and Sinkler have collectively 'done a Kvesic'. They've started the new season looking anonymous in a poor pack. Sinckler has played much better than most commentators have given credit for, he seems to have been lumped with a load of 'fiery, young and raw' cliches that he doesn't really deserve. He was dominant against the Sarries pack for long periods a few weeks ago and put a better set of locks behind him and he'll looks monstrous again (something I think Rats has pointed out, he's almost immovable when he locks out on a defensive scrum). Marler's form has dipped a little but I'd put that entirely down to the pressures of captaining a team on the back foot. Again, something that he wont have to contend with in an England shirt.

Mullan and Waller could, IMO, comfortably do a job at international levels and if they end up getting a few caps might push on quite a bit. Mako's scrummaging needs sorting as you say, but he's injured for the Autumn Internationals anyway so I guess we'll see more Mullan. Regardless, there is lots to work with on that side.

As for the other side of the scrum, as indicated above I'd back Sinckler to deputise for Davey Wilson, although Brookes will probably get the gig and thats no bad thing. But anyone but Wilson starting gives me the jitters. Which side of the scrum does Scott Wilson play?

Corbs last cap was again Argentina for sure but for some reason I thought it was in the home game last year? Am I wrong? Probably. I agree with you about needing him in the squad, even if he isn't 100% fit maybe he can train with the EPS like he did in the 6N last year when he was in rehab?

.
Though there's always Doran-Jones ready to come to the rescue!

Kill it with fire!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Scott Wilson is TH and very promising scrummager. Could be a very solid international in a few years.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What is the situation with Cole btw? Used to be a dead cert yet now isn't even mentioned.

 

[Patchey]

Still out with the same neck injury from last year. End of the year come back maybe?