2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[ratsapprentice]

Don't think he's expected back until the new year.

 

[Patchey]

Well that's a bummer...

Let's hope he gets time to get properly for before the 6N. Also that he doesn't walk back into the starting shirt if he isn't on full form.


Anyone else completely forgotten to think about Tom Croft being for again?

 

[Peat]

Wish I could agree with Patchy but I can't. We're not a bad side with Corbs out, but I feel the difference between him and Joe, and Joe and Mako/Mullan, is probably pretty significant. It's the difference between a weaponised scrum for the full 80 or not, particularly with Cole out on the other side.

It's not all doom and gloom but, in terms of winning some AIs, then yeah, I'm bothered.

 

[glawsfan]

So as we are a few games into the season and the Autumn internationals are fast approaching what would people like to see as the England team. Personally on form and from who I think are available I would go with,
Marler
Hartley
Wilson
Lawes
Attwood
Wood
Robshaw
Vunipola
Care
Cipriani
May
Eastmond
Burrell
Wade
Brown

Bench being
Mullan
Ward
Thomas
Launchbury
Ewers
Dickson
Ford
Foden

 

[Maverick1987]

So as we are a few games into the season and the Autumn internationals are fast approaching what would people like to see as the England team. Personally on form and from who I think are available I would go with,
Marler
Hartley
Wilson
Lawes
Attwood
Wood
Robshaw
Vunipola
Care
Cipriani
May
Eastmond
Burrell
Wade
Brown

Bench being
Mullan
Ward
Thomas
Launchbury
Ewers
Dickson
Ford
Foden

I'd still rather Yarde over May and Rokoduguni/Watson/Nowell over Wade tbh

Feel like May has had chances and hasn't proven bugger all . I wouldn't have him being anything more than injury cover

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would have Haskell over Wood ATM.

 

[glawsfan]

As much as Yarde is a threat going forward if you watch his perfromances in NZ he was very poor defensively. I wouldn't be totally against him starting but he needs to work on his defence.

 

[Crapspray]

It's the difference between a weaponised scrum for the full 80 or not, particularly with Cole out on the other side.

I think this is a real and growing problem. In the Six Nations, at least by the Wales game, England's scrum was the weakest statistically. In New Zealand the maul was going forward well, but at scrum-time it was rare to see England turn the screw. This whole year I don't think I've seen an opposition scrum under pressure on their own feed.

Add to that the poor quality of replacements now the first choice is gone and it's all a mess. What could have been Marler-Webber-Wilson (the same players who did so well in Argentina last year) it's Mullan-Webber-Thomas. A massive drop-off.

It's another opportunity to strengthen depth at loosehead, but it's the wrong test series to be doing it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lancaster and the other coaches been given a new contract till 2020.

Stupid move imo.

 

[Geordie]

Corbs is a blow without question as Marlers actually scrummaging is nowhere near as destructive.
However i personally think Marlers work everywhere else isnt far short of Corbs. I just think Marler is giving away too much weight. He's only about 17.5 - 18st i believe compared to Corbs whos up around the 19st + mark which i personally do think makes a difference.

We must forget that the young Wallers performances made Corbs absence half as bad for Saints...so they are ones to watch.

As for TH i would have no worries if Brookes was to start at TH. He's quality and a monster to boot. And Scott Wilson will be another quality TH but isnt quite ready yet. A Saxon at best for the moment...

Dont forget a very important point though.

The second rows are a MASSIVE part of the scrum. They bring through the power from the engine room. We have (in my opinon) two average scrummaging locks in Launchbury and Lawes...they fall into Lancasters mould of alround athletic mobile players. Extra flankers so to speak.

They're no Simon Shaws or Martin Johnsons in the scrum and thats a huge factor.

Maybe Dave Attwood could change that.

 

[Geordie]

Lancaster and the other coaches been given a new contract till 2020.

Stupid move imo.

Well i dont think anyone would disagree thats he's hauled us into the right direction in terms of repsecting the white shirt, general performances on the pitch have been good etc

But for me there are still little ****ly selection question marks, tactical issues (are we ever going to use the wings) and balance in the side..

For example picking an athletic mobile pack filled with "alrounders" rather than a more specialised pack where individuals are picked per positional requirement.

Im not sure he's getting it totally right and i genuinely dont expect us to be in the Final of the WC next year.

But thats just my opinon of course.

 

[Patchey]

Let's all remember that it took Graham Henry two a World Cups to win one. A long term contract for a coach whose been moving us in the right direction is a good move IMO.

Wish I could agree with Patchy but I can't. We're not a bad side with Corbs out, but I feel the difference between him and Joe, and Joe and Mako/Mullan, is probably pretty significant. It's the difference between a weaponised scrum for the full 80 or not, particularly with Cole out on the other side.

It's not all doom and gloom but, in terms of winning some AIs, then yeah, I'm bothered.

Are there any games you can think of where having Mako or Joe playing instead of Corbs caused us to lose or if Corbs playing would have caused us to win? Obviously it's a bit of a silly question but I don't think I can think of any examples.

It's a worry, certainly, but I can't bring myself to be too concerned. Maybe I have too much faith in Marler.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about it.
Probably would've waited until after the RWC - it almost feels like the RFU have written off 2015 and are saying "Use it as part of the building process to win 2020". Though, as above, Graham Henry took two RWCs, Sir Clive took 2 world cups....hopefully this more like that, than the WRU keeping Gatland and co on for another 35yrs.

I also would have looked at throwing as much cash as the RFU has at stealing Alex King away from Saints.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Would be surprised if they all saw out their tenure.

 

[Crapspray]

Seems unfair to Johnson, who was thrown out with the bathwater in 2011.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If similar things happen under Lancaster's watch, you can be sure as **** that he will get the axe.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Under Johnson the old "arrogant English" thing was coming back big time. Under Lancaster anyone who seriously wants to call the English arrogant gets laughed at. The players have better discipline than they have for years, both on and off the pitch. Lancaster is also a very modest man and doesn't do the stupid mind games and make petty jabs at other teams. On the whole I think it's fair to say England are much more respected now than under Johnson.

As for the contract till 2020, Lancaster still baffles a bit with his selection policies but ultimately he hasn't done too much wrong. I would hope that we will continue moving in the right direction under him and we will get most of the remaining problems ironed out with continuity. If we were to replace him, I'd want it to be for a coach with a very good proven track record at the top of their game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Still not sure of Lancaster it may be the right direction.

But he hasn't really given players game time to increase depth.

He has had 3 years and he still hasn't found his Centre partnership, or 2 wingers or a really attacking game plan.

Players like Ford, Kvesic, Wade, Joseph, should have been given more game time for England in the last 2 seasons, instead it could be at a time where England should have already nailed on there 23.

He hasn't tried moving players that make sense like Robshaw @ 6, and instead move players where they just aren't right for Goode, Brown, Manu on the wing.

I could understand if England where winning tournaments but he hasn't won the 6N yet and has only got 2 wins against SA, AUS and NZ.

Graham Henry was actually producing the goods.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I really wanted to see Rob Baxter in the job but i'm still happy with Lancaster. The progress we made on the pitch from 2012-2013 I thought was huge, and if it wasn't for the bounce of a ball we would have been grand slam and 6 nations winners.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well I guess Lancaster has really left an insanely good impression on the RFU. Congrats to him, he's exactly what England needed right after Martin Johnson and with the Wilko days over. What a job in 2012, there was no reason England should be that good, that quick. An early exit from the World Cup, a whole generation fading, fresh new faces including a brand new coach and starting flyhalf.
Things haven't been perfect of course, and although the wins are great it's the content of those matches that's been either too one-dimensional or lacking in areas - but comparing what England has had and what France has had for example, there's no denying the great deal of success on England's part. There have been episodes where England has looked vulnerable: the nightmare in Cardiff (a good wake-up call), and more recently the third test thumping in NZ (though easily compensated by two very good first efforts). Otherwise, the last time I can recall any frailty within the group was Robshaw's bad captain's decisions during the 2012 EOYT, in particular against Australia, but then England punctuated that test series emphatically and all was forgiven, and largely. Then there were also the two really bad games against Italy (Rome 2012, Twick 2013).

But overall it's been one very solid behavior from England and good results, here they are in fact:




On the positive notables, the Lancaster years have helped England break the Ireland 'complex', winning all 3 of those fixtures (incl. Dublin). A draw in South Africa. Beating NZ for a first since the Jonny days.

But 2020, that's just an eternity from now !