[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[donmcdazzle]

Thought this was quite a funny read: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11272849

 

[William18]

Really cause I hate the French in rugby for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior, well actually I hate the french in general for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior.

No offense to any french people.

Except the French didn't do anything. A few French agents blew up a boat, killed a person and got off lightly. That is not the 'French'.

Anyway, I hate to see what you think about Germans with that type of attitude.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Thought this was quite a funny read: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11272849

I honestly didn't realise the general standard of journalism was so low in New Zealand .

How can you not see that England have nothing but respect for the All Blacks. Use of the word myth is simply a way of saying look we can beat these guys, and we have to believe that this is possible or there's no point coming over here at all.

What it is categorically not doing is saying anything at all about how good new zealand are or are not.

 

[William18]

I honestly didn't realise the general standard of journalism was so low in New Zealand .

How can you not see that England have nothing but respect for the All Blacks. Use of the word myth is simply a way of saying look we can beat these guys, and we have to believe that this is possible or there's no point coming over here at all.

What it is categorically not doing is saying anything at all about how good new zealand are or are not.

The whole thing just seems bizarre to us. We have never claimed the All Blacks are a mythical team or that we have an aura. Over the annals of rugby history, South Africa have basically been equal to us. You will never hear an All Blacks fan going on about our myth or aura because we don't believe we have one. We just have 15 very good rugby players.

I think England going on about our myth and aura has the opposite effect. It just makes the All Blacks seem even harder to beat. After the game on the weekend apparently our 'aura' was weakened. That just shows how much the English bought into the whole idea in the first place.

How does "Use of the word myth is simply a way of saying look we can beat these guys, and we have to believe that this is possible or there's no point coming over here at all." So calling the All Blacks a mythic team makes them seem easier to beat? If something is mythic a lot of the time it has divine intervention. Good luck beating that.

I'm pretty sure with the amount of times I have heard the All Blacks have lost their aura we should be in negative aura by now......thank god it doesn't exist (except in your own minds, maybe)

 

[donmcdazzle]

I honestly didn't realise the general standard of journalism was so low in New Zealand .

How can you not see that England have nothing but respect for the All Blacks. Use of the word myth is simply a way of saying look we can beat these guys, and we have to believe that this is possible or there's no point coming over here at all.

What it is categorically not doing is saying anything at all about how good new zealand are or are not.

The writer writes largely tongue in cheek comedic type articles - he commentates Super Rugby and is pretty funny in his commentary. Makes a refreshing change form all the other writers who take themselves too seriously.

 

[RoosTah]

I honestly didn't realise the general standard of journalism was so low in New Zealand .

How can you not see that England have nothing but respect for the All Blacks. Use of the word myth is simply a way of saying look we can beat these guys, and we have to believe that this is possible or there's no point coming over here at all.

What it is categorically not doing is saying anything at all about how good new zealand are or are not.

To be fair I read that whole piece as basically a **** take... didn't really seem like anything more than a laugh to me.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Fair enough if you don't think of your team having an aura but, the author apparently does, hence why he's getting defensive over your team, misinterpreting it as underestimating you guys. Hence why he compares it to when new Zealand wrote off the england 2002 team. And judging by some of the comments on the article, many of you guys are taking this as akin to saying the all blacks arnt all that...

The reality is that northern hemisphere wins over the south have been so astonishingly rare. A few years ago we would have, quite literally, no chance to win against you. Now we do. But the record explains the need to speak loud and confidently about your teams ambition.

I don't necessarily believe talking down the all black myth does help at all, but you can't deny that having belief in yourself Is a prerequisite for victory in big games. And pre match chatter is par of the course, such as Brodie retallick pretending not to know any England players. Reading too far into it shows a preciousness bordering on hysteria.

 

[goodNumber10]

It's an awful article, but the he gives the game away with his closing comment.

Hence why he compares it to when new Zealand wrote off the england 2002 team.

Is he not actually talking about last weeks England team?

I think ultimately he's misinterpreting Marler words - it's again all designed to undermine and give NZ'ers a reason to get behind their team - stirring the hatred of decades gone by.


Anyway i'm sure we had this discussion about "myths & aura" a few days ago...

 

[nzlizard]

I honestly didn't realise the general standard of journalism was so low in New Zealand .

We don't count him as a journalist either.

Haha what the hell? You can't claim to hate a whole nation of people and then just say "no offense". Clearly a whole lot of offense is intended.

Lol, every French person I have met is awesome, have only met a couple, and this one French chick was so hot every guy in the room wanted a hoon.

I don't really hate them, they frustrate me, first they blow up our boat, then they knock us out of the work cup twice

Except the French didn't do anything. A few French agents blew up a boat, killed a person and got off lightly. That is not the 'French'.

Anyway, I hate to see what you think about Germans with that type of attitude.

Don't get me started on the Germans and their weird fetishes.

 

[Darwin]

Fair enough if you don't think of your team having an aura but, the author apparently does, hence why he's getting defensive over your team, misinterpreting it as underestimating you guys. Hence why he compares it to when new Zealand wrote off the england 2002 team. And judging by some of the comments on the article, many of you guys are taking this as akin to saying the all blacks arnt all that...

The reality is that northern hemisphere wins over the south have been so astonishingly rare. A few years ago we would have, quite literally, no chance to win against you. Now we do. But the record explains the need to speak loud and confidently about your teams ambition.

I don't necessarily believe talking down the all black myth does help at all, but you can't deny that having belief in yourself Is a prerequisite for victory in big games. And pre match chatter is par of the course, such as Brodie retallick pretending not to know any England players. Reading too far into it shows a preciousness bordering on hysteria.

I think you are perhaps misinterpreting the authors point. I don't see him getting defensive or suggesting the ABs have an aura - indeed he is suggesting the exact opposite! As has been mentioned the article is just a ****-take at the idea that the ABs have some sort of aura. They don't. They win matches because they are a bloody good rugby side, but they have never been unbeatable. To beat the ABs you don't have to remove their aura (that apparently happens everytime a side beats us - or simply gets close - but we magically get it back rather quickly). You simply have to play better rugby than them.

Of course having a positive mindset is essential, but looking for cracks in an imaginary aura isn't the way I would personally go about it....

 

[squirrel]

We don't count him as a journalist either.




Lol, every French person I have met is awesome, have only met a couple, and this one French chick was so hot every guy in the room wanted a hoon.

I don't really hate them, they frustrate me, first they blow up our boat, then they knock us out of the work cup twice



Don't get me started on the Germans and their weird fetishes.

find French chicks too moody for my liking but have a damn sexy accent(or moan if you get lucky)

 

[smartcooky]

Except the French didn't do anything. A few French agents blew up a boat, killed a person and got off lightly. That is not the 'French'.

Anyway, I hate to see what you think about Germans with that type of attitude.

[off topic]The two French agents who were prosecuted and sentenced with the Rainbow Warrior bombing had absolutely nothing to do with the bombing at all. They were here on an entirely separate mission, and got caught up in the furore. They didn't even know the bombing was going to happen, and the bombers didn't know they were even in NZ. That's why they plead guilty and never had to testify in court....but that is another story for another thread.[/off topic]

On topic

YES: the All Blacks have a very good historical record going back over 100 years (71% in the amateur era, and even better 83% in the pro era).
YES: The New Zealand rugby system seems to be able to churn out top quality players almost at will (evidence the sheer numbers of them playing in Europe and Japan).
YES: the All Blacks have been ranked No. 1 in the iRB rankings five times longer than all the other teams ever ranked No 1, combined.
YES: New Zealand Rugby fans are generally bloody proud of our All Blacks, and their record, and rightly so.

But as for some mythical aura they are supposed to have, well that is just a fanciful construct of ignorant sports jocks in the British Media. IMO, this so-called "myth/aura" was created by them specifically so that that they could metaphorically "take it down", like a sort of "mythical strawman" i.e. to argue that it no longer exists, when it fact it never existed in the first place.

When New Zealand rugby fans read articles like that by idiots like Mick Cleary, Stephen Jones, Brendan Gallagher, Eddie Butler and other halfwitted alleged journalists of their ilk, we just laugh and roll our eyes. NO NEW ZEALAND RUGBY FAN THINKS THE ALL BLACKS HAVE EVER HAD A MYTHICAL AURA OF INVINCIBILITY.... nor have any All Blacks themselves thought that; they never have and they never will.

NOTE:
Actually, a friend of mine last week said he had read Stephen Jones' latest [strike]rant[/strike] article, and that he thought Jones wasn't a journalist's arsehole, but I stood up for Stephen and said that he was!

 

[Groundhog]

The worst thing about that article was that he called England the home of Saint George. Nope. Also every article I see from that paper is utter ********ed ****e.

 

[goodNumber10]

A couple of things, on the whole Myth thing.

It doesn't really matter what the NZ press or public think. Whether they believe there is a myth or aura around their team it's not their view point that matters on it. What matters is how other teams view the All Blacks.

I don't think Marler, or anyone is saying they have this almighty glowing Halo above their heads, what he means is that the AB's go into each game with a belief instilled in them from decades of World dominance, they believe they will win each and every game they play – as they should.

But bar a few exceptions, NH teams have never had that self belief we've 90% of the time gone into games thinking we'll give it a crack it doesn't matter if we lose as no one gives us a chance anyway.

Whatever we say these are not normal guys, these are exceptional people who have dedicated huge amounts of time to being the best in the world. They are exceptional people doing battle. Ultimately sport is about battle, not in the loping off arms and legs sense, but it is about ***ans struggling to overcome each other, and all the greatest stories ever told are about underdogs beating the odds, so everyone places themselves in that position mentally so they are playing up to a new level.

So you prepare appropriately, for NZ that is preparing as though they are the underdogs – or second best team in the game (they are on record as saying this). For England that's saying "these guys and their fans believe they are infallible. We're going to prove they are not", and they got some way towards that last week.

I don't think there is much more to it other than a bit of chest beating to psych themselves up. If you don't go into a game with a fear of being second best you've already lost.

 

[Patchey]

On topic

YES: the All Blacks have a very good historical record going back over 100 years (71% in the amateur era, and even better 83% in the pro era).
YES: The New Zealand rugby system seems to be able to churn out top quality players almost at will (evidence the sheer numbers of them playing in Europe and Japan).
YES: the All Blacks have been ranked No. 1 in the iRB rankings five times longer than all the other teams ever ranked No 1, combined.
YES: New Zealand Rugby fans are generally bloody proud of our All Blacks, and their record, and rightly so.

But as for some mythical aura they are supposed to have, well that is just a fanciful construct of ignorant sports jocks in the British Media. IMO, this so-called "myth/aura" was created by them specifically so that that they could metaphorically "take it down", like a sort of "mythical strawman" i.e. to argue that it no longer exists, when it fact it never existed in the first place.

When New Zealand rugby fans read articles like that by idiots like Mick Cleary, Stephen Jones, Brendan Gallagher, Eddie Butler and other halfwitted alleged journalists of their ilk, we just laugh and roll our eyes. NO NEW ZEALAND RUGBY FAN THINKS THE ALL BLACKS HAVE EVER HAD A MYTHICAL AURA OF INVINCIBILITY.... nor have any All Blacks themselves thought that; they never have and they never will.

NOTE:
Actually, a friend of mine last week said he had read Stephen Jones' latest [strike]rant[/strike] article, and that he thought Jones wasn't a journalist's arsehole, but I stood up for Stephen and said that he was!

I don't think anyone (except for some of the non journalists you name) has ever claimed New Zealanders believe the All Blacks have this mythical aura thing going on. Most informed rugby fans and pundits in the NH are well aware that the All Blacks can win a game by twenty points and still have fan criticising missed opportunities or poor passages of play. You guys have a very high standard and expect the best from players lucky enough to pull on the black jersey but that obviously doesn't equate to a blind belief in their invincibility.

However I think Henry hits the nail on the head when he says that because you have been so unbeatable for Northern Hemisphere teams for long periods of time, there is bound to be some level of apprehension added to the healthy respect that any rugby player is going to feel when lining up against a team as good as New Zealand. I don't think for a moment this means the players or coaches consider the All Blacks to have this 'mythical aura' (I'm going to start using inverted commas because it seems like such a silly thing to say) but surely you've got to agree that if you only beat a team once a decade they're going to start to seem a little bit more than 'just' a group of very good rugby players. We've finally produced a set of players that at least have a chance of beating you, or running you close, so I think its natural that some of the anxiety about whether it is possible to beat the All Blacks ebbs away.

Of course this gets ruined by idiots writings badly written columns that then get taken seriously by idiots writing badly written columns on the other side of the world and what is a perfectly natural element of the sports gets turned into a debate over whether the All Blacks really are mythical beasts from the dawn of time. Which is why someone should really hire some people who can actually write to do some sporting journalism.

 

[goodNumber10]

^^^ this.

I presume we all played rugby, or sport to some degree, and can all remember playing better teams than ours. You went into those games with a bit of nerves, some fear in your belly and kept doing so until you were better than them.

That's no different at this level.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

^^^ this.

I presume we all played rugby, or sport to some degree, and can all remember playing better teams than ours. You went into those games with a bit of nerves, some fear in your belly and kept doing so until you were better than them.

That's no different at this level.

Totally agree with this, in the cup last year we had a team which we knew nothing about and were quite confident.

Then before the game one of the players had researched them and said they are 2 leagues above us. You could see the confidence drain out of the players.

New Zealand are number 1 in the world. Every team will feel that way until they have beaten them.

 

[Maverick1987]

Ok can we stop talking about aura and myth now it's been dragged on and on by the idiots at the NZ herald and started by the idiots in our papers . I mean I've never actually read the NZ herald until this tour came about and I'm bloody glad too . The amount of articles they draw out into spewing crap everywhere is unreal . To the point where both sets of journalists have actually boiled my **** !

I thought last weeks game was great . For passion was one of the best games I've seen for ages !! (Maybe because it was a tad unexpected) and to be honest the most important part (the rugby) is being ruined by the idiots that write in the papers

 

[Patchey]

Ok can we stop talking about aura and myth now it's been dragged on and on by the idiots at the NZ herald and started by the idiots in our papers . I mean I've never actually read the NZ herald until this tour came about and I'm bloody glad too . The amount of articles they draw out into spewing crap everywhere is unreal . To the point where both sets of journalists have actually boiled my **** !

I thought last weeks game was great . For passion was one of the best games I've seen for ages !! (Maybe because it was a tad unexpected) and to be honest the most important part (the rugby) is being ruined by the idiots that write in the papers

Amen.

Wasn't the best game but the passion and amount of physical effort from both sides. I'm hoping that this week is a repeat, but with better rugby and no appearance from Ashton!

 

[Maverick1987]

Amen.

Wasn't the best game but the passion and amount of physical effort from both sides. I'm hoping that this week is a repeat, but with better rugby and no appearance from Ashton!

Well I don't mind Ashton coming on as long as he scores a hat trick whilst he is on the pitch and even then I'm only going to give him a steady nod of approval

Re: the passion of last weeks game I've worn a line in the carpet of my house pacing up and down for the last half an hour . I've never shouted NIGEL !!!! So many times either