[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[goodNumber10]

When you have got two distributors in the centre and an out-half who can whip about flat passers I think Manu can shine. Of course the problem arises of where he plays for his club. I hope the move works off, but not too well that England win.

You'd support NZ over England? Would you support NZ over Wales or Scotland?

(i'm presuming you're irish)

 

[Gavin]

You'd support NZ over England? Would you support NZ over Wales or Scotland?

(i'm presuming you're irish)

New Zealand over everyone except Ireland, Italy and Australia (depending on the team which Australia puts out). Don't get me wrong I don't dislike the English I just have it beaten into me not to like them winning. In saying them I do like the potential they currently have in their set-up.

 

[barkinghooker]

Naturally support England but always support the underdog in any other international.

I tend to not like the Irish because I saw too much politics involved with their motivation to beat England. I think O'driscoll really realllllly hated England. But I did want them to win against the SH teams last November.

 

[Groundhog]

Naturally support England but always support the underdog in any other international.

I tend to not like the Irish because I saw too much politics involved with their motivation to beat England. I think O'driscoll really realllllly hated England. But I did want them to win against the SH teams last November.

I don't think there is a team in the world that doesn't play with extra aggression against the English. I wouldn't take it personally. England are just the old enemy, there's no malice in it for us. Not in rugby.
I would only support the English over New Zealand, South Africa, but maybe not the Aussies. Depends really.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't think there is a team in the world that doesn't play with extra aggression against the English.

well I see what you mean, but Italy. I don't think Argentina have that hostility against England either...and the Pacific Islands ?...I don't think they do.

I was categorically against England winning because of their way of doing it, but ever since this year they've convinced me they're a truly respectable side and as someone who preaches objectivity and fairness it's my duty to support them or at least feel "the right thing happened" when they win a game.
I've never been the stereotypical Frenchman disliking the English...all my reasons are actually founded on life experiences repeating countless times

 

[Aristodemus]

Very disappointing lineup by Lancaster, I don't even know what to say.

 

[Big Ewis]

Very disappointing lineup by Lancaster, I don't even know what to say.

well then, say "cheese".

 

[Groundhog]

well I see what you mean, but Italy. I don't think Argentina have that hostility against England either...and the Pacific Islands ?...I don't think they do.

I was categorically against England winning because of their way of doing it, but ever since this year they've convinced me they're a truly respectable side and as someone who preaches objectivity and fairness it's my duty to support them or at least feel "the right thing happened" when they win a game.
I've never been the stereotypical Frenchman disliking the English...all my reasons are actually founded on life experiences repeating countless times

I was going to say English speaking world before I remembered the French. Up until a few years ago we had a holiday home in a town near Narbonne we went to every Summer and I wore my Irish jersey as often as possible to avoid being called a rosbif or something similar. What an innocent child I was.
Anyway my reason for coming hear was to look at the whole Tuilagi thing. That doesn't make much sense to me either. Defensively it's not an easy transition to make at all. I imagine that's what he'll struggle with the most. The outside channel is a totally different animal to defend. He certainly has the athletic attributes for the wing, but it's one hell of a game to try it.

 

[barkinghooker]

What do we know about team selections huh? They're talking rugby we don't even see and obviously see better than us. The more I think of Tuilagi out wide the more excited I get. I should look up the stats but I'm guessing the abs kick a bit less at this ground but now feel they'll target Manu in the air. It will enable us to play at our tempo(s). Also if he catches the ball unchallenged and puts on some gas I promise we'll all get excited. The subs are an improvement that will get noticed. I would of had Eastmond in the 23. I'm sure he would of been a good sub SH (sure he's played there for Bath a few times).

C'mon England!

 

[Big Ewis]

I disagree. I think he'll be fine on defense, but will struggle (if anything) with the high ball and communication as a back three in general. He'll be an awkward winger no matter what, but it may not translate into anything actually detrimental for England. He may very well cruise past his weaknesses for a day at that position, but play efficient Manu Tuilagi ball...just out wide in stead of in the center.

 

[Groundhog]

I'm not convinced the high ball will be a big issue, but the defence thing I maintain it the biggest positional shift. Obviously he's being training for the likelihood of playing wing but against a world class opposition I think he may be wrongfooted.
It will be great to see him get the ball in space out there.

 

[barkinghooker]

Will Twelvtrees last the full 80? He hasn't played for some time. Manu may only play on the wing for 50 minutes and Ashton will come on.

 

[ollecrab]

New Zealand over everyone except Ireland, Italy and Australia (depending on the team which Australia puts out). Don't get me wrong I don't dislike the English I just have it beaten into me not to like them winning. In saying them I do like the potential they currently have in their set-up.

#10 this is you all over whinged,*whing·ing,*whing·es*Chiefly British

To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

well I see what you mean, but Italy. I don't think Argentina have that hostility against England either...and the Pacific Islands ?...I don't think they do.

I was categorically against England winning because of their way of doing it, but ever since this year they've convinced me they're a truly respectable side and as someone who preaches objectivity and fairness it's my duty to support them or at least feel "the right thing happened" when they win a game.
I've never been the stereotypical Frenchman disliking the English...all my reasons are actually founded on life experiences repeating countless times

I'm pretty sure the Argies hate us. That little issue about the Falklands that they bring up every single year would hint that was the case. When you think about it, if this many teams try extra hard to beat England, then England must be doing exceptionally well to be one of the best teams in the world. The only other team everyone wants to beat is the ABs.

 

[barkinghooker]

The first game against Argentina last summer was played at a soccer stadium as a pre match for a soccer match. I don't really recall any hostility by the fans or hatred.

(I wonder how long did it take to change the posts and paint the lines)

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm pretty sure the Argies hate us. That little issue about the Falklands that they bring up every single year would hint that was the case.

I don't thank that transpires into the world of Rugby.

When you think about it, if this many teams try extra hard to beat England, then England must be doing exceptionally well to be one of the best teams in the world. The only other team everyone wants to beat is the ABs.

How deliciously English ! one of your best so far. Of course, God picked the English as his preferred people, so 'when you think about it' a bit deeper, it's not really all that impressive...it's just fulfilled destiny.
And yes, the AB do fairly well as a constant target. I think it's about a million times more relevant to mention that than England's case, but I'm just being objective here..

 

[Darwin]

That's the ABs problem: being too dependent on one great player. They have to prove they can win comfortably without him.

I just think that it's a bit disrespectful to start predicting a win by 20 points. It would be a massive surprise in my book if it's anywhere near that margin of victory from either side. I don't think England will give the ABs enough quality possession to get away with that margin of victory. It's the margins which the ABs are better than England i.e. that concentration in those moments, not to get isolated and turned over.

In terms of breakdown, scrum, line out and driving mauls England can match and exceed the All Blacks in these facets of the game. The rush defence was also very effective against them and led them dropping the ball so often. I do expect more grubber kicks in behind by the likes of Cruden and Nonu, to try and get England's defence turning back towards their own try line.

But all this talk from the ABs that they were rusty and did not have enough preparation time was just a smokescreen, because they secretly underestimated how good an England team shorn of 2/3rds of their top players would play on the AB's sacred ground on Auckland, where they have not been beaten in 20 years.

It may be considered a bit disrespectful to suggest the AB's will win by 20, but I think it is a distinct possibility. They don't do it every week, but when(/if?) the AB's fire they can score a lot of points. Of course there is no guarantee we will fire (and we haven't for our last few tests), but I can't imagine we can perform as poorly as we did last weekend again. We seldom play two poor games in row (and make no mistake we were very poor last weekend). Take for example our series against Ireland in 2012. Ireland pushed us to the limit in the 2nd test - a last minute drop goal from Dan Carter was the only reason we won. The following week we had a few injuries (Read and Carter), and there were suggestions that Ireland may finally get a win over the ABs. This of course didn't happen - indeed Ireland got the biggest hammering in their history. I don't expect us to beat England by anywhere near the margin we beat Ireland by - this is simply to emphasize the fact the AB's are often far more dangerous after a poor performance....

Our tight-five were completely MIA last weekend, but they are all much better players than they showed. I would be surprised if England dominate up front this week. The AB's front-row isn't outstanding but I expect a lot more from them, but more disappointing were our two locks. Retallick and Whitelock are truly world class performers, and both have been in superb form this year - both should be far more prominent this week. Read's absence is an issue as you suggest, and I would still be more comfortable with Vito at 8 and Kaino at 6.

Aaron Cruden has been a shadow of the player he can be since returning from injury and was poor in the 1st test. Barrett is in superb form this season - if Cruden doesn't fire in the 1st half I would like to see Barrett on at half-time. Nonu too needs to up his game, though I feel his poor performance had a lot to do with Cruden. Cruden wasn't offering anything remotely creative so Nonu tried to play the role of creator. He has been good at this role at times for the Blues this year, but he is far more effective when he is a bit less subtle! Our back three looks far more potent this week with Savea back and Smith at fullback. You wouldn't think one player would make that much of a difference, but replacing Dagg with Savea is massive for the AB's for a number of reasons (a) Savea is in phenomenal form (b) Jane moves from the left wing (where he looked lost) to his favored position (c) likewise Ben Smith moves to his favoured position, which bring a whole new counter-attacking dimension to the AB's and (d) we get rid of Israel Dagg who was poor in the weekend (and hasn't been in great form for several years...).

While the AB's didn't get a huge amount of quality ball last weekend I felt we got enough - the problem was we continued to make unforced errors, or (just as crucially) kicked the ball away. I have no issue with employing a tactic kicking game - indeed it is essential - however we kicking away almost all the quality attacking ball we had last weekend. We need to lay off the kicking a lot this weekend, and actually try running the ball.....

 

[RoosTah]

Wait, only 5 changes? Are you telling me that the team England sent out last week WASN'T the second string under 16s girls team that some commentators in the English media made it out to be?

Joking aside, to be fair on Lancaster, why would you make wholesale changes to a side that largely outplayed the world's top team? Surely that shows the guys who've just played are top notch...

 

[nzlizard]

I don't thank that transpires into the world of Rugby

Really cause I hate the French in rugby for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior, well actually I hate the french in general for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior.

No offense to any french people.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Really cause I hate the French in rugby for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior, well actually I hate the french in general for what they did to the Rainbow Warrior.

No offense to any french people.

Haha what the hell? You can't claim to hate a whole nation of people and then just say "no offense". Clearly a whole lot of offense is intended.