[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

[turmeric2015]

I don't think that you are getting where I coming from in general - I'm not looking at selections as a one off match, I'm looking at them in a RWC type of environment (that's is long term as I'm going to get), where you are going to need at least four specialist winger/fullbacks, with cover for some of those positions/specialists provided by utilities such as Barrett, and even Slade ... maybe some of the midfielder SBW, Crotty, etc .

Anyway, in that environment Dagg and Smith are both going to be needed and used as Fullbacks for various games ... my point is that if Piutau's form suddenly becomes bad, there is likely to be Cory Jane in the picture as well. In the mid year tests, they started the first test with Jane, Smith, and Dagg. Piutau has played on the Left wing also, so they could go with Piutau, Jane and Smith next year (four a game) if required. I'm a huge Savea fan, and he definitely has a mortgage on the 11 jersey at the moment, but Hosea Gear returns to New Zealand rugby, so there's another option.

As for those other's you've mentioned, I enjoy watching them too, and probably have a slightly biased view towards James Lowe (as I'm a Makos fan), but he's not ready for higher honors yet IMO ... I'm not sure who would put pressure to be honest, not I wasn't expecting Fekitoa this year either.

Hmmn ... It turns out Gatland was right about Barrett

OK, makes sense re Smith Dagg Piutau Jane et al

Re Barrett, well I got that one terribly wrong :huh:

Got the rest of the team right though.

Big question for me is where the **** are the ABs at with their choice of 10? I still think Cruden is #1 but I also thought they'd go with their number one in this game....

I hope form next year Hansen and co solidify a starting XV. We need to get our combinations right in that back line. Contingency plans a great, but lets not repeat 2007!

 

[SelimNiai]

So Cuthbert will be marking Savea oh gosh, those two guys are huge, with Cuthbert 6'6, Savea 6'4.

And ones arguably the best finisher in the game and the other isn't the greatest of defenders. Alex has a huge test on his hand, heres hoping he fronts up.

 

[Big Ewis]

So Cuthbert will be marking Savea oh gosh, those two guys are huge, with Cuthbert 6'6, Savea 6'4.

control yourself, man ! You've been drooling over size this entire thread !!

Din Cahtah dropped altogether....also, this has got to be the very best full strength AB side NZ can possibly put out, about 2 spots shy of it.

 

[inteNZity]

Welcome.

Don't think we would start TJP for the last game of the year, hopefully we are up a few points by the 50min mark so he at least gets 30mins.

Can't see Nonu offering too much with the depth we have at 2nd five now, SBW, Crotty and Fekitoa look comfortable there and Nonu hasn't been his block busting self for a couple of seasons, he has been too inconsistent.

Agree with Vito having potential to show impact of the bench, but he needs a great season next year to cement a spot, you would have to say McCaw, Read and Kaino are auto selections, and then Cane, Luatua, Vita and Messam make up the next tier, Cane seems to have the 7 backup spot so it is really who does 6/8 cover the best and how many loosies they want in the mix.

cheers for the welcome. im a big fan of the work Ma'a brings at the break down in securing our ball in midfield, he also defends the fringe of the breakdown like a loose forward. if you look at the games played without him we had heaps of turnovers when on attack and had tries scored off us from close to the ruck, when the game becomes trench warfare Ma'a brings more than SBW or Fekitoa, but they will grow. it will be sad for Liam if he misses another WC, I think last time we had Richie, Read, Kaino, Vito, and Thomson.. with Liam the unlucky one, he's given great service since but it will be close.

 

[inteNZity]

Best NZ line-up of the year? Good luck Wales..

Welcome to the forum @inteNZity! I like the username. And on your post, yeah NZ certainly isn't struggling for depth ATM is what I get out of it; 1st world problems.

cheers for the welcome, I think there are a lot of teams building depth, the Boks for one, England, even Aussie due to the amount of injuries they've had. should be a great year next yr, and some great games this wkend.

 

[Every Time Ref]

OK, finally a chance to talk about the team.
Halfpenny back to fullback doesn't surprise me. Liam Williams played well last week, but Halfpenny is crucial in this team, with his kicking and positioning in defence/receiving kicks. People say Williams is better in attack, but I am still of the opinion Halfpenny plays more conservatively under orders, while Williams plays his style. Look at the Lions third test when Halfpenny hit the line with great effect.

Absolutely, I agree - Halfpenny has it in him to be an exciting counter attacker, he's just not asked to be under Gatlandball, for better or worse. I am still worried that having two key players just back from injury will damage Wales though. I'd have been tempted to include Williams and say, go on give it a go and prove yourself, but I guess in the end you need Halfpenny's boot...

North and Cuthbert wouldn't be dropped for Williams, they are our only regular try scorers. Both are poor in defence and seem a bit unsure where they belong on field except when taking the ball out wide. North to 13 would be the only way Williams would make the back three apart from injury-forced changes.

Cuthbert's a funny one, he does just keep producing tries, but he is also a complete malco a lot of the time! Look at that horrendous pass to no-one in the backfield on Saturday, you mention the defence of course, but there's also a lot of unfathomable moments of muppetry in Cuthbert's game. i suspect there'll come a time when he no longer scores tries and his game will plummet - because he is approaching a liability when you take the tries away.

Midfield isn't surprising; Roberts has been ineffective for a while, punctuated by decent matches here and there. His handling was shocking last week, so bad I am willing to mark it off as a bad day. Davies to 13 is a desperation move. He has been injured/out of form for Clermont so far, so throwing him into the ABs this quickly is clearly a roll of the dice.

Agree on Davies...I have to say, I never quite understood the adulation he got. On Roberts, I actually thought he had his moments against Fiji, he was at least taking the ball up and making ground (including a full break if I remember correctly?) and that's all that Gatland ever asks of him.

Back row: yawn. Lydiate is the new 'golden boy'. OK, I get it he does like 18 tackles per match, but that shouldn't be the only important stat for a blindside. We really need other options. McCustard and Turnbull are not options. Shingler doesn't fit in the squad with his style of play. I would do Tipuric-Warburton for the time being. Faletau hasn't been impressive lately, almost feel as if he is more suited to flanker. Baker is the only other 8, and he is still a little passive in defence at times. No real candidates in the U20 either. Benjamin was the 8 this year, but his size doesn't work for a modern international 8. Mongo?

TIpuric was another who I thought, in context, was relatively good against Fiji, and good against Aus as well. Maybe it's the Englishman in me reliving past nightmares, but the ability he has with the ball in hand is terrifying for almost any team, and Wales for all their strengths aren't the team with the best hands in the world. He gives something different to the attack, and from an unexpected place.

 

[Mikel92]

I hope Conrad's head space is ok. He hasn't seemed himself on this tour.

Sorry, bit of topic but does anyone have inside word on what that was actually about? The whole returning to NZ thing? Apparently the family is fine so that's the main thing.

But I agree with you though, I've noticed it too. 'Spose hes getting older though.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Just been watching Scrum V to get some insight, and I quote Gareth Thomas, not even out of context:

"we were very unlucky last world cup in New Zealand not to lift the trophy"

 

[Big Ewis]

Just been watching Scrum V to get some insight, and I quote Gareth Thomas, not even out of context:

"we were very unlucky last world cup in New Zealand not to lift the trophy"

I definitely don't know about the trophy, but for certain they were unlucky to lift Vincent Clerc. I mean that guy's not even close to looking like a trophy.

 

[Bluemoon]

Just been watching Scrum V to get some insight, and I quote Gareth Thomas, not even out of context:

"we were very unlucky last world cup in New Zealand not to lift the trophy"

I think there was a few cringes around Wales when he said that. Rest assured, that's his very optimistic opinion. I might agree that Wales were unlucky to lose the semi that year (thinking of 1/2ps pen kick etc), but C'est la Vie.

Happy with 1/2p at fullback. I think his kicking is a big part of the Welsh game and his attack and defence is excellent (apart from his suicidal tackling technique). Liam Williams had a decent game against Fiji, but the idea of dropping North for him is crazy. Cuthbert might consider himself lucky, although his finishing and ability to score is keeping him in the team. His defence isn't great and the idea of him up against Savea is worrying. I feel I may need to take a change of undies to the stadium this Saturday.

I do feel the performance from Wales will be much more like what we saw against Australia. I am very excited about the game and want to see Wales play some good rugby again this week.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

^ No Worries, I didn't expect his to be the majority opinion.

I don't like Scrum V because it's rather close-minded but the analysis is pretty good and makes me wish there was an England rugby specific bbc program as an equivalent.

Wales seem to play better when the opposition is better so I expect massive improvement. You have a chance in this game and that's all one can really hope for against New Zealand.

 

[easy2288]

I like the intention to give more game time to all the potential flyhalfs. If DC played much better in the Scot game, I believe he would have been in the line up.

 

[SelimNiai]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wales-vs-new-zealand-head-to-heads-8142909

So, er, yeah. Have at it

 

[welshglory]

This head to head thing is a crock of **** honestly.

 

[Bluemoon]

This head to head thing is a crock of **** honestly.

Although I'm sure it didn't start with Buzzfeed, I am going to call this the Buzzfeed effect. Everything in a nice numerical order or given a score.

As Simon Thomas said on twitter, these lists get views for the company and sell papers. There are a lot of people on twitter discussing with him whether this is journalism or not. I like Simon, it's Andy Howells who is poor.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Ball gets a 7 and so does Rettalick ? Wyn Jones is better than Whitelock ?!??! Lydiate is as good as Kaino I know it is always going to have a bias but Jesus Christ this isn't even close to representative of the teams actual ability.

 

[welshglory]

Not to mention...

Cuthbert only 1 point behind Savea
Davies even with Smith
Roberts even with SBW
Franks a 7
Warburton even with Mccaw

I mean who is the fool trying to trick here? Is he that bloody stupid?

Its a flippin joke and embarrassing.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Quite laughable people getting rattled over the Fail hahahahaha

 

[Bluemoon]

Not to mention...

I mean who is the fool trying to trick here? Is he that bloody stupid?

Its a flippin joke and embarrassing.

It was Andy Howell who wrote this article. We all know his strategy is to be overly controversial in order to sell the WM. He does it every week.

 

[Shaggy]

This head to head thing is a crock of **** honestly.

Yes, the thing that gets me about these head to head things are that they don't discuss how they came up with "the number" ... and they are completely meaningless anyway - even if they were "accurate", it's not like a players only plays against their opposites anyway.

Stating the obvious, but it's more about the combinations and how the players play for each other as a team.

... anyway, really looking forward to the match ... great players on both teams, so it should be a great match

OK, makes sense re Smith Dagg Piutau Jane et al

Re Barrett, well I got that one terribly wrong :huh:

Got the rest of the team right though.

Big question for me is where the **** are the ABs at with their choice of 10? I still think Cruden is #1 but I also thought they'd go with their number one in this game....

I hope form next year Hansen and co solidify a starting XV. We need to get our combinations right in that back line. Contingency plans a great, but lets not repeat 2007!

Well, to be fair, you hand a 25% chance of getting the starting first five right, like the rest of us

In answer to your ranking question, stuff seem to think that Barrett might be #1 in this article http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ansen-adds-dash-of-youth-to-All-Blacks-lineup

... It's too big of a strain on my brain to figure it out, so I'm going to be "Switzerland" on this issue ... I'm just happy they are giving them all game time