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[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

I very much like this AB's team I think its the top 23, only change would be if carter was firing he would start and Barrett would take slades place on the bench.

Very happy to see Smith at 15 and Piutau at 14, as I said before Piutau like like he has points in him I think he will cross.

Hopefully Conrad Smith is ready to fire. Almost seems silly to question his place in the side but he's been quiet recently and his last game was forgettable while Crotty, SBW and Fekitoa have been impressive. I'd like to see Ben Smith, Conrad and Piutau work some magic down the right hand side.

Bench has a good mix of impact and experience.

With Many players rested last week they will be fresh and the main focus will be on getting continuity fast and I think that means early clean fast ball is critical.

Can't wait! Bring it on!
 
Mikel92 said:
Sorry, bit of topic but does anyone have inside word on what that was actually about? The whole returning to NZ thing? Apparently the family is fine so that's the main thing.

But I agree with you though, I've noticed it too. 'Spose hes getting older though.
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No, I haven't heard anything at all. I guess when you are respected by many (if not all) and you have a clean record, the media doesn't dig deal into personal stuff. In contrast to Jessie Ryder for example, who basically fed media the same line as Conrad, but many more details were reported (some of which were false by the way).

I hope all is well for Conrad. Great player, great leader, and one of the best centres to play the game.
 
This is either gonna be yet another agonizingly close win to NZ, or a walkover for them.
Arguably, if that entire Welsh team was firing like we know they can, then maybe we'd be in with a shout. Current form though? Can't see it.

That said, that performance in the 2nd Test in SA came out of nowhere too, so who knows?
 
One thing I would love to see is us getting out to a good start. As exhilarating as chasing games are, and as much as the mental fortitude of the ABs has developed, now and then it does come back to bite us. We almost did it against Scotland, but then we started giving away silly intercepts and penalties.

When you're the underdog and you find real belief in the last...I dunno...quarter or half hour, that's a dangerous thing. We see that back here in NZ with Ranfurly Shield challenges. If the final is on the horizon and the underdog has a sniff or has maintained a lead, it does a lot for their confidence. So I hope the boys get themselves into a position where they won't have to worry about, and won't have to chase.
 
Mikel92 said:
One thing I would love to see is us getting out to a good start. As exhilarating as chasing games are, and as much as the mental fortitude of the ABs has developed, now and then it does come back to bite us. We almost did it against Scotland, but then we started giving away silly intercepts and penalties.

When you're the underdog and you find real belief in the last...I dunno...quarter or half hour, that's a dangerous thing. We see that back here in NZ with Ranfurly Shield challenges. If the final is on the horizon and the underdog has a sniff or has maintained a lead, it does a lot for their confidence. So I hope the boys get themselves into a position where they won't have to worry about, and won't have to chase.
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That works the other way too, often teams choke up against us when they find themselves in the lead with 20 to go, they tend to stop playing the same way that got them the lead, or maybe they've just emptied the tanks in the first 60. I agree though, I'd love to see us have at least a 10 point lead at half time.
 
donmcdazzle said:
That works the other way too, often teams choke up against us when they find themselves in the lead with 20 to go, they tend to stop playing the same way that got them the lead, or maybe they've just emptied the tanks in the first 60. I agree though, I'd love to see us have at least a 10 point lead at half time.
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Yeah, I was about to mention that too. I was going to say something along the lines of "but we don't want to be like the Northern teams and come out hissing and roaring then falter in the last". I don't think an early lead has to be a bad thing. If the ABs have the tenacity to come back and snatch so many victories then surely they have enough tenacity to hold on to lead, something that would be even more advantageous.
 
TRF_SelimNiai said:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wales-vs-new-zealand-head-to-heads-8142909

So, er, yeah. Have at it
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I for one think the ratings are fantastic. I enjoy a good laugh in the morning :D

Good to see young Samson Lee starting for Wales. It was only a couple of seasons ago that he was embarrassing New Zealand at U20 level - hopefully (for the AB's sake) he finds it a bit more of a challenge at senior level! From an outsiders perspective that Welsh side looks pretty handy to me. I haven't seen much of Jake Ball, but he looks like a fair lump of a lad. The loose-trio is good, but I'm glad Tipuric isn't starting (as I rate him very highly). I think Wales backline is more dangerous now they are playing at halfback at halfback rather than a loose-forward. There is no shortage of size in the backline (apart from the hobbit at fullback :) ), but I'm pretty confident the AB's will be able to contain the big Welsh backs.

Overall I really like the look of the AB's side. I would prefer Cruden at 10, but I'm happy to see Barrett get another chance to run the show. I would like to see Barrett really focus on his distribution. I feel the AB's attack is quite direct with him at 10 - which is certainly not a bad thing - but we don't always find the space out wide that we do with Cruden in the 10 jersey.
 
... Well, the All Blacks are there for the taking

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...l-Blacks-there-for-the-taking-says-Welsh-No-9

I don't really see that what he's saying is "cocky" as the article suggests ... the All Blacks have had some narrow escapes this year ... and drawn once ... and lost once ... so there's definitely a chance.

... It will be a tough ask for Wales though ... no excuses if the ABs lose (that's a pretty strong team that's been named)
 
Shaggy said:
I don't think that you are getting where I coming from in general - I'm not looking at selections as a one off match, I'm looking at them in a RWC type of environment (that's is long term as I'm going to get), where you are going to need at least four specialist winger/fullbacks, with cover for some of those positions/specialists provided by utilities such as Barrett, and even Slade ... maybe some of the midfielder SBW, Crotty, etc .

Anyway, in that environment Dagg and Smith are both going to be needed and used as Fullbacks for various games ... my point is that if Piutau's form suddenly becomes bad, there is likely to be Cory Jane in the picture as well. In the mid year tests, they started the first test with Jane, Smith, and Dagg. Piutau has played on the Left wing also, so they could go with Piutau, Jane and Smith next year (four a game) if required. I'm a huge Savea fan, and he definitely has a mortgage on the 11 jersey at the moment, but Hosea Gear returns to New Zealand rugby, so there's another option.

As for those other's you've mentioned, I enjoy watching them too, and probably have a slightly biased view towards James Lowe (as I'm a Makos fan), but he's not ready for higher honors yet IMO ... I'm not sure who would put pressure to be honest, not I wasn't expecting Fekitoa this year either.

Hmmn ... It turns out Gatland was right about Barrett :)
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no doubt it will be interesting, how to fit the current group of backs into 14 spots, if we take 3- 1/2 backs, 2- 1st 5's, Ben Smith, Savea, Conrad Smith.. that's 8... that leaves 6 spots for Piatua, Ma'a, SBW, Crotty, Fekitoa, Jane, Dagg, the 2 left over 1st 5's... Nonu's form would have to be terrible to get dropped so it only leaves 5 spots between 8 players. makes for an interesting super 15.
 
Darwin said:
I for one think the ratings are fantastic. I enjoy a good laugh in the morning :D

Good to see young Samson Lee starting for Wales. It was only a couple of seasons ago that he was embarrassing New Zealand at U20 level - hopefully (for the AB's sake) he finds it a bit more of a challenge at senior level! From an outsiders perspective that Welsh side looks pretty handy to me. I haven't seen much of Jake Ball, but he looks like a fair lump of a lad. The loose-trio is good, but I'm glad Tipuric isn't starting (as I rate him very highly). I think Wales backline is more dangerous now they are playing at halfback at halfback rather than a loose-forward. There is no shortage of size in the backline (apart from the hobbit at fullback :) ), but I'm pretty confident the AB's will be able to contain the big Welsh backs.

Overall I really like the look of the AB's side. I would prefer Cruden at 10, but I'm happy to see Barrett get another chance to run the show. I would like to see Barrett really focus on his distribution. I feel the AB's attack is quite direct with him at 10 - which is certainly not a bad thing - but we don't always find the space out wide that we do with Cruden in the 10 jersey.
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true Darwin, Barrett brings the pace of foot and quick pass to the outsides but Cruden brings the magic, when he is on form he creates like a ball player, with SBW or Ma'a to run outside him he builds into a game and finds space, I am a fan of both players but it is what it is.
 
inteNZity said:
no doubt it will be interesting, how to fit the current group of backs into 14 spots, if we take 3- 1/2 backs, 2- 1st 5's, Ben Smith, Savea, Conrad Smith.. that's 8... that leaves 6 spots for Piatua, Ma'a, SBW, Crotty, Fekitoa, Jane, Dagg, the 2 left over 1st 5's... Nonu's form would have to be terrible to get dropped so it only leaves 5 spots between 8 players. makes for an interesting super 15.
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Yep, I love it if they are all fit, and they can pick the best on form, but injuries will no doubt play a part. I also think they will take three ten's which will leave even less opportunity.

Anyway, hopefully the backs selected for this match play to their potential, and we have a great last match of the season
 
The head to head rating things is pretty useless. However, people going nuts over the ratings given are not understanding how individual ability counts for relatively little when you get down to a dual between two of the top teams in the world. The All blacks are the best because they all interact like one organism. If you look at their tries, generally they are real team efforts. The crucial part being the support play, which they do amazingly. There are exceptions of course where you see individual efforts from nowhere, but its all about team cohesion.

Looking at the rating for each player individually i don't think they are far wrong (though obv biased in the article)

For the record, here's how i would rate them individually. (i fricken love meaningless ratings and lists)

15. Halpenny (9) Smith (8)

14. Cuthbert (7) Savea (10)

13. Davies (9) Smith (10)

12. Roberts (8) SBW (9)

11. North (10) Piutau (8)

10. Biggar (7) Barrett (8)

9. Webb (7) Smith (8)

8. Faletau (8) Read (10)

7. Warburton (9) McCaw (9)

6. Lydiate (7) Kaino (9)

5. AWJ (9) Whitelock (9)

4. Ball (7) Retallick (9)

3. Lee (7) Crockett (7)

2. Hibbard (7) Coles (7)

1. James (7) Franks (8)
 
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So Justin Marshall pretty much offered to appear on Scrum V with nothing on if Wales win tomorrow...

Guessing @dasNdanger will be switching allegiances for the weekend now :p
 
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Thingimubob said:
So Justin Marshall pretty much offered to appear on Scrum V with nothing on if Wales win tomorrow...

Guessing @dasNdanger will be switching allegiances for the weekend now :p
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How do I get this Scrum V you speak of??!

I am a bit confused by his comment, though. Is he rooting for Wales or NZ? I mean... nekked Marshall could be a reward - or a penalty - for Wales winning...all depending on how you look at it. And by 'it' I mean the situation...and not, ya know...it. ;)



das
 
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Jbobo said:
The head to head rating things is pretty useless. However, people going nuts over the ratings given are not understanding how individual ability counts for relatively little when you get down to a dual between two of the top teams in the world. The All blacks are the best because they all interact like one organism. If you look at their tries, generally they are real team efforts. The crucial part being the support play, which they do amazingly. There are exceptions of course where you see individual efforts from nowhere, but its all about team cohesion.

Looking at the rating for each player individually i don't think they are far wrong (though obv biased in the article)

For the record, here's how i would rate them individually. (i fricken love meaningless ratings and lists)

15. Halpenny (9) Smith (8)

14. Cuthbert (7) Savea (10)

13. Davies (9) Smith (10)

12. Roberts (8) SBW (9)

11. North (10) Piutau (8)

10. Biggar (7) Barrett (8)

9. Webb (7) Smith (8)

8. Faletau (8) Read (10)

7. Warburton (9) McCaw (9)

6. Lydiate (7) Kaino (9)

5. AWJ (9) Whitelock (9)

4. Ball (7) Retallick (9)

3. Lee (7) Crockett (7)

2. Hibbard (7) Coles (7)

1. James (7) Franks (8)
Click to expand...


I assume you must be giving each of the welsh players an average boost of 2 points or more!?

Or do you honestly think they are that good??... I mean Halfpenny better than B Smith????

Halfpenny is probably the best fullback in europe but better than Ben Smith? No way.

That all said Ben Smith has been a bit flat for about 4 months now and imo has some sort of health condition.... somethings not right with him. At his best he's clearly the best 15 in the world and nobodys even close not even Folau.
 
Can't say I care enough about these rating systems to get worked up over them, but I have been puzzled on this tour why Dane Coles consistently ranks at about 7. Outside of Retallick, he's been my stand out forward this year. As good as Kevy is with his drive close to the line and general leadership, I feel Coles' pace around the field, acceleration, passing, side step, and probably line out throwing is unmatched in that position. Not having a crack at any poster on here, just noticed it with the Welsh and English media have both not really regarded him. I would have said a 7 would have been justified when he first came on to the scene, but he's really made that jersey his own.
 
Jbobo said:
The head to head rating things is pretty useless. However, people going nuts over the ratings given are not understanding how individual ability counts for relatively little when you get down to a dual between two of the top teams in the world. The All blacks are the best because they all interact like one organism. If you look at their tries, generally they are real team efforts. The crucial part being the support play, which they do amazingly. There are exceptions of course where you see individual efforts from nowhere, but its all about team cohesion.

Looking at the rating for each player individually i don't think they are far wrong (though obv biased in the article)

For the record, here's how i would rate them individually. (i fricken love meaningless ratings and lists)

15. Halpenny (9) Smith (8)

14. Cuthbert (7) Savea (10)

13. Davies (9) Smith (10)

12. Roberts (8) SBW (9)

11. North (10) Piutau (8)

10. Biggar (7) Barrett (8)

9. Webb (7) Smith (8)

8. Faletau (8) Read (10)

7. Warburton (9) McCaw (9)

6. Lydiate (7) Kaino (9)

5. AWJ (9) Whitelock (9)

4. Ball (7) Retallick (9)

3. Lee (7) Crockett (7)

2. Hibbard (7) Coles (7)

1. James (7) Franks (8)
Click to expand...
Fixed your Wales ratings :p
Halfpenny -> 7.5
Cuthbert -> 5
Davies -> 7
Roberts -> 7 (always solid in defence but ineffectual in attack in maybe 80% of games)
North -> 8
Biggar -> 7.5 (torn between 7 and 8)
Webb -> 6 (potentially a couple higher, just needs to settle down at international level)
Faletau -> 8
Warburton -> 7.5
Lydiate -> 6
AWJ -> 8
Ball -> 7
Lee -> 7 (expecting big things in future though)
Hibbard -> 8 (when he nails his darts, he's my favourite hooker in the world)
James -> 6 (decent in the scrum, too prone to give away a penalty in the loose)
 

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