[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

[Bada-Bing!]

Ummm I think you are in the wrong thread. This thread has nothing to do with Wales. It is about the 2011 Rugby World Cup final isn't it? Wales was knocked out in the semis if I recall correctly

Where are all the Welsh posters by the way? It's unusual for the Welsh to be drowned out on a thread involving their side!

As much as I enjoy Stephen Donald's mother regaling us with tales if her sons deeds I do agree we should get back on topic. We will need to leave the re-telling of my favourite tale - how Donald heroically saved the AB's from a humiliating thrashing in Hong Kong - for another time

I'm hoping for a convincing AB's performance this weekend, but I've been waiting for one of those most of the season! I think we would have been much better off if we had started our top side against Scotland in terms of continuity, but hopefully Hansen knows what he is doing.

While I certainly understand the calls for Carter I do think AB's selection should be based on performance, and test level isn't the best place for players still finding there way back from injury. Personally I suspect we will get Cruden at 10 and Barrett on the bench (which is the way I would go). The rest of the backline picks itself (in the selectors eyes at least), though like many others I would love to see Piutau on the right wing and Smith at fullback.

Assuming Retallick and Kaino are fit they will start, otherwise we will see Thrush and Messam take their places. As others have alluded to Tuipolotu is the preferred bench lock, but I think Thrush may have a nose in front of him in terms of a starting locking option (and Romano made a solid return in the last test too).

The alternative is to put both Carter and Barrett on the bench as the 22 and 23 players, as both can play fly half, whilst Carter can cover 12, Barrett full back, whilst if they start with SBW at inside centre then he can cover wing. Bin Smuth can cover wing, full back and both centre positions.

 

[turmeric2015]

Na you're giving him too much credit, he has bandied Colin Slade around as the from 10 before in other threads. Along with his view that Aaron Smith is about the 5th or 6th best halfback in NZ.

Are you serious? OK, well, at least he has a strong opinion I guess. Not sure how he manages to justify it though....

Slade is a good player, no doubt. As we have seen he can hold his own in the AB 10. He has also proved himself to be a nice backup to to the incumbent backup (Barrett), which clearly puts him at #4 in the pecking order and a reasonable chance of making the RWC squad. That's about as far as one could go with talking Slade up though.

I wouldn't even begin to indulge him on his A Smith view

 

[Shaggy]

Well Gats apparently thinks it's going to be Barrett

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...atland-expects-Barrett-to-start-against-Wales

 

[nzlizard]

Mccaw's 100th test as captain.

Another milestone for him, pretty impressive record.

https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/25552065/mccaws-century-as-skipper-massive-read/

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Welsh backs are enormous.

Alex Cuthbert
Jonathan Davies
Jamie Roberts
George North

All over 6ft and over 100kg, my gosh.

 

[austingtir]

Are you serious? OK, well, at least he has a strong opinion I guess. Not sure how he manages to justify it though....

Slade is a good player, no doubt. As we have seen he can hold his own in the AB 10. He has also proved himself to be a nice backup to to the incumbent backup (Barrett), which clearly puts him at #4 in the pecking order and a reasonable chance of making the RWC squad. That's about as far as one could go with talking Slade up though.

I wouldn't even begin to indulge him on his A Smith view

This is a load of ****e though i would be true if Barrett and Cruden had played to their potential for the majority of games this year but that is not the case. The fact is we now have 3 basically lame duck first five eights this year. I cant hardly remember the last time we had a standout performance from one of our 10's. Maybe the last game against England at home.... thats bout it and it wasnt even that great as I remember.

Why do you think Slade is even there!? Its blatantly obvious Hansen isnt happy with the other 3 otherwise Slade wouldnt even be in the damn team!

I never said Cruden Barrett and Carter arent better playing to their potential as they have proven they can do it... Cruden and Carter more so. Fact is Cruden is woefully out of form, Carter is past it, and Barrett will never be tactically as astute as those two.

I still think Slade should be given a couple more games as I for one have seen signs in him since he came back from his injuries a few years ago that he has alot of potential. IMO he's a way better player than Donald and look where he ended up in 2011!

And just for you I still think A Smith is overrated. The fact is that AB's are so much better than the next team we can carry a pintsize halfback that cant tackle, cant kick and runs about like a headless chicken... Thats how **** the rest of the opposition is. We are basically playing with 14 men fulltime... LOL.

J

 

[Mikel92]

Slade is there because he is a good player. And Cory Jane is injured. Being a good player was never disputed. But as fabulous as you are making out? Our form 10? I ask you again ... based on what? A few minutes here and there? He slotted a great kick in Brisbane, but he also kicked the ball out on the full when he first came on which could have cost us that match, that's really all I can remember. The only point I can really agree with you on is overall he is better than Donald. There are A LOT of good players back in New Zealand, but the fact Slade has been in the mix before and is highly versatile helps his cause. Hey I like the guy, but I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as what you're saying.

Also, Aaron Smith overrated? Erm, okay. If you say so. You're clearly watching a different All Blacks team than me. When I think of our key players I think of people like McCaw, Read, Savea and yep, even Aaron Smith.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I am starting to think you're just saying things for the sake of saying them!

 

[donmcdazzle]

This is a load of ****e though i would be true if Barrett and Cruden had played to their potential for the majority of games this year but that is not the case. The fact is we now have 3 basically lame duck first five eights this year. I cant hardly remember the last time we had a standout performance from one of our 10's. Maybe the last game against England at home.... thats bout it and it wasnt even that great as I remember.

Why do you think Slade is even there!? Its blatantly obvious Hansen isnt happy with the other 3 otherwise Slade wouldnt even be in the damn team!

I never said Cruden Barrett and Carter arent better playing to their potential as they have proven they can do it... Cruden and Carter more so. Fact is Cruden is woefully out of form, Carter is past it, and Barrett will never be tactically as astute as those two.

I still think Slade should be given a couple more games as I for one have seen signs in him since he came back from his injuries a few years ago that he has alot of potential. IMO he's a way better player than Donald and look where he ended up in 2011!

And just for you I still think A Smith is overrated. The fact is that AB's are so much better than the next team we can carry a pintsize halfback that cant tackle, cant kick and runs about like a headless chicken... Thats how **** the rest of the opposition is. We are basically playing with 14 men fulltime... LOL.

J

Cruden is only out of form in regards to his goal kicking,which (for about the fifth time) has been explained away by the coaches as relating to some sort of injury messing with his technique. Not that he was ever Wilkinson from the tee but he obviously isn't as bad as he has been the last two games.

Did you actually watch the USA and England games? Cruden (other than goal kicking) was pretty good around the park. Against England he made a clean break and created another for SBW, and in general was very tidy (again, other than goal kicking). He lit up Australia at Eden Park in the RC (on the back of a great team performance).

Slade missed touch off that penalty and was extremely lucky that Nic White hacked one into touch to give us the ball back, otherwise he would be the new Stephen Donald getting blamed for costing us an Aus test.

Your comments about Aaron Smith are delusional, pretty much every pundit rates him as one of the top couple in the world with the ability to transform the AB game. He isn't a great defender, or even a good one, but if you can't appreciate what he does for our attack then you aren't watching properly.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Wales will be very tough, they are up for this and they have a cracking team, we are tired after another ridiculously long season.
I'm a bit worried because this might be the day when Wales do not self destruct in the last ten minutes.

 

[Icemn]

Well Gats apparently thinks it's going to be Barrett

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...atland-expects-Barrett-to-start-against-Wales

mindgames... he wants Hansen to play BB... or Hansen might be thinking BB (who might be the form player) but now since Gats hinted on BB, Hansen selects a diff out of form 1st 5...

http://www.allblacks.com/News/26374/davies-returns-as-wales-name-team-for-all-blacks


WALES TEAM TO PLAY NEW ZEALAND:

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Paul James (Bath), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), James Hook (Gloucester), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

 

[Every Time Ref]

I can't see Wales even getting within 10 here I'm afraid. Halfpenny and Davies returning is big (although I don't rate Davies as much as some) - but having said that, how often do you see a player returning from injury at his absolute best first game back? And to compete with the ABs you need all your key players at their absolute best. I actually think just as encouraging in that lineup is the half-back pairing - those two were really impressive against Australia, a couple of intercepts aside, certainly better than the slow, in infinitive dross Phillips-Priestland treated us to. New Zealand haven't hit their straps yet, but they haven't needed to, and showed us at Twickenham how easily they can find a way to dominate and control even when obviously not really flowing for whatever reason.

 

[Big Ewis]

Welsh backs are enormous.

Alex Cuthbert
Jonathan Davies
Jamie Roberts
George North

All over 6ft and over 100kg, my gosh.

WELL over. They're all closer to 110kg, if not over. They had to go and ruin it all with a minuscule 90kg fullback ??? I seriously don't understand Gangland's strategy sometimes...

 

[turmeric2015]

This is a load of ****e though i would be true if Barrett and Cruden had played to their potential for the majority of games this year but that is not the case. The fact is we now have 3 basically lame duck first five eights this year. I cant hardly remember the last time we had a standout performance from one of our 10's. Maybe the last game against England at home.... thats bout it and it wasnt even that great as I remember.

Why do you think Slade is even there!? Its blatantly obvious Hansen isnt happy with the other 3 otherwise Slade wouldnt even be in the damn team!

I never said Cruden Barrett and Carter arent better playing to their potential as they have proven they can do it... Cruden and Carter more so. Fact is Cruden is woefully out of form, Carter is past it, and Barrett will never be tactically as astute as those two.

I still think Slade should be given a couple more games as I for one have seen signs in him since he came back from his injuries a few years ago that he has alot of potential. IMO he's a way better player than Donald and look where he ended up in 2011!

And just for you I still think A Smith is overrated. The fact is that AB's are so much better than the next team we can carry a pintsize halfback that cant tackle, cant kick and runs about like a headless chicken... Thats how **** the rest of the opposition is. We are basically playing with 14 men fulltime... LOL.

J

Mate, Slade wasn't even selected in the squad to go on tour, he is only their because of injury! He is the 4th cab off the ranks, to anyone that follows the game that is blatantly obvious.

That being said, he is a good player (as others have agreed) and he is playing well, no questions about it. As I've said, for me he is the best backup to the backup we have But he is not the form 10 - he hasn't even started at 10 for the ABs since 2011 for goodness sake

Right now #1 Cruden, #2 Carter (although the selectors want him to be #1), #3 Barrett, #4 Slade.

Other than that, most of what I would have to say has been said by Mike and Don - your comments re A Smith above just further reinforce my reasoning for not indulging you

 

[turmeric2015]

Well Gats apparently thinks it's going to be Barrett

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...atland-expects-Barrett-to-start-against-Wales

It's not going to be Barrett.

Inside word is we'll same starting pack as vs England:

8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Samuel Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

The only changes in the starting XV "may" be in the backs - looks like Smith might get another chance at 15, with Piutau at 14. Cruden to start, Barrett on the bench!

15 Ben Smith, 14 Charles Piutau, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith.

 

[Darwin]

It's not going to be Barrett.

Inside word is we'll same starting pack as vs England:

8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Samuel Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

The only changes in the starting XV "may" be in the backs - looks like Smith might get another chance at 15, with Piutau at 14. Cruden to start, Barrett on the bench!

15 Ben Smith, 14 Charles Piutau, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith.

If this is the side selected I will be a happy man. I may even do a celebratory dance

 

[turmeric2015]

If this is the side selected I will be a happy man. I may even do a celebratory dance

Me too! Keep the dance to a minimum though mate, cause even if they go for this team, my take is that it is only another "trial" for Smith at full back, and the incumbent is very much still Dagg. I think the rest of the team is picked based on their #1 starters, but with the outsides they may still tinker. Otherwise it will be Dagg at 15 & Smith at 14.

I think this is Smiths last chance to claim the 15 jersey. He has to have a blinder! That big boot of Dagg seems to get him over the line right now, Smith has to force the selectors hand with a much superior performance in all other aspects of the game, but important kick with power & precision against Wales to show the selectors Dagg's boot is not such a differential factor. That's my take anyway.

The other important point is how well Piutau goes will impact on Smiths chances. Smith could have a blinder, but if Piutau struggles it certainly won't help Smith's cause.

 

[donmcdazzle]

What annoys me is the last time Smith had a good crack in the 15 jersey (against England) he was outstanding, even Hansen was saying things along the lines of him taking it to the next level and Dagg had work to do etc. Skip ahead to the next tests.. Dagg at 15 again.

 

[Mikel92]

Is Cruden only able to play 10? Has he played any other position? I don't think he has for the ABs, but what about club or super level? At least Barrett and Carter can play a couple of different ones.

My heart wants Carter to get as much rugby as he possibly can between now and the World Cup, but my head says they'll go with Cruden. If that is the case then i'd AT LEAST like to see Carter on the bench. I just think with this amount of time to go until the World Cup it's time to make some bold decisions. On precedent, Carter is usually rusty for the first wee while and then comes into his own a few games in. So my logic, let's get this "wee while" of rust out of the way now. Not such a fan of the reasoning "Cruden for now, but we'll look at Carter if he plays any good in Super" .. that's too much chopping and changing. No more dorking around, let's pick one and stick with one. (although yes I understand the nuances of the argument that different players suit different styles. But we need to nail an incumbent).

 

[Shaggy]

Me too! Keep the dance to a minimum though mate, cause even if they go for this team, my take is that it is only another "trial" for Smith at full back, and the incumbent is very much still Dagg. I think the rest of the team is picked based on their #1 starters, but with the outsides they may still tinker. Otherwise it will be Dagg at 15 & Smith at 14.

I think this is Smiths last chance to claim the 15 jersey. He has to have a blinder! That big boot of Dagg seems to get him over the line right now, Smith has to force the selectors hand with a much superior performance in all other aspects of the game, but important kick with power & precision against Wales to show the selectors Dagg's boot is not such a differential factor. That's my take anyway.

The other important point is how well Piutau goes will impact on Smiths chances. Smith could have a blinder, but if Piutau struggles it certainly won't help Smith's cause.

Yeah ... as i've stated before, it doesn't matter which fullback they prefer, because they will use both at fullback for different games during the RWC ... who gets the run there if/when we get to the business end will most likely be determined by who's fit to play anyway.

I don't think Piutau's form on the wing will have that much to do with whether B.Smith plays at fullback long term anyway, as there's Cory Jane still to come back as a right winger, and, who knows what other players that can immerge durring the Super Rugby season.

 

[turmeric2015]

Is Cruden only able to play 10? Has he played any other position? I don't think he has for the ABs, but what about club or super level? At least Barrett and Carter can play a couple of different ones.

My heart wants Carter to get as much rugby as he possibly can between now and the World Cup, but my head says they'll go with Cruden. If that is the case then i'd AT LEAST like to see Carter on the bench. I just think with this amount of time to go until the World Cup it's time to make some bold decisions. On precedent, Carter is usually rusty for the first wee while and then comes into his own a few games in. So my logic, let's get this "wee while" of rust out of the way now. Not such a fan of the reasoning "Cruden for now, but we'll look at Carter if he plays any good in Super" .. that's too much chopping and changing. No more dorking around, let's pick one and stick with one. (although yes I understand the nuances of the argument that different players suit different styles. But we need to nail an incumbent).

I can't recall Cruden ever playing anything other than 10. If he did, it would have been at a pinch - possibly at full back? Turbos, Canes, and Chiefs - I've ono;y seen him start at 10. At the end of the day he is the starting 10 for the ABs or he is out of the playing squad - simply as that.

Listening to a few of the guys close to the ABs if Cruden Starts Barrett is cover, If Carter Starts Barrett is again cover, If Barrett starts Carter is cover (probably ranked in that order currently as well).

Carter will have the whole of Super Rugby to get rid of the rust, if he stays injury free he'll then have the Rugby Championship etc as well before the RWC. I think it's heaps of time for him and a nice build up. If he can regain his old form during that time, he'll likely surpass Cruden. Fingers crossed for him cause a fully fit, inform Carter will help the ABs chances of retaining the RWC immensely. That being said, Cruden would do a fine job too! I;m not sure therefore that Carter needs this game vs Wales, and my hunch is that the selectors feel they have used him enough on this tour and will sit him out for this one.