[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

[nickdnz]

The score while Cruden was on the field - 5-0. The score when replaced by Donald 8-7. What magnificent game management by Donald. My favorite moment was when he runs the ball into touch without being tackled, and then tries an offload back in. It was fantastic. Donald landed a basic penalty kick and made several tackles. Hurrah! Other than that he only passed the ball three times all match.

I really want Julian Savea to start this match and hopefully bag some tries. Wouldn't mind seeing Carter being used from the bench, but like others have said that spot is most likely Barrett's. I think this will probably be another very close match, this EOYT has really been a pretty unconvincing one so far, so I would love it if we managed a really strong game to finish up (which hasn't been the case in the last two EOYT's).

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm pretty sure we are playing Wales this weekend, how about we refocus on the game chaps.
Wales are a top side who can beat anyone on their day and they are gonna be real tough in their home stadium.

God, aren't you tired of saying shiit like that ? I like Wales as a Rugby nation so this isn't a knock, but those etiquette posts...
France are champs at this. France could be playing a Tier 4 nation I swear they'll be like "oh yeah I mean we can't underestimate them, they're just too good...it would be falling into the trap than to think they're easy to beat, I mean they can beat anyone on their day...you know, in fact, I believe it was René Descartes who once said "there is an infinite difference between 'infinite' and 'immeasurable'" ok wait wait sorry I went too far that time, although another quote springs to mind from Plato's Repub...ok ok sorry, but what I'm saying in essence is we could easily lose this by 50 if we're not careful, and those backs of theirs are electric, so all respect due to Cambodia."

Aaaaaaaiiirrr is a lovely thing, in fact it is rather vital for human beings. But like all good things, it ought to not be overused. Not to insult anyone here (especially not you The Jones Boy, I mean your name alone practically procures carnal envy in me) but there's a strange sublimation phenomenon or something similar where the hot air spontaneously transforms into a bull's waste, with no intermediary stage. It's a fairly strange thing to behold, but sure enough it happens every day. It tends to occur when people do talking...politicians, media, aaaaand pro sports representatives are fantastic with it also. They have an answer for anything - ANYTHING !!! Rhetoric, the power to speak and say nothing.

So no,no...sorry. When UUUUUUUUUUURBBBody knows. They just know. The All-Blacks are thinking right now about just how to smash em, they know their strengths and their weakness, they know Wales don't have their speed, quickness, command of a healthy skillset. And it's the AB, they don't underestimate like some do.

 

[nickdnz]

Well, France has lost to Argentina, Tonga, Italy, Romania, Canada and Germany in the past - albeit that is in 100 or so years - but it's best not to rule out upsets.

 

[Shaggy]

God, aren't you tired of saying shiit like that ? I like Wales as a Rugby nation so this isn't a knock, but those etiquette posts...
France are champs at this. France could be playing a Tier 4 nation I swear they'll be like "oh yeah I mean we can't underestimate them, they're just too good...it would be falling into the trap than to think they're easy to beat, I mean they can beat anyone on their day...you know, in fact, I believe it was René Descartes who once said "there is an infinite difference between 'infinite' and 'immeasurable'" ok wait wait sorry I went too far that time, although another quote springs to mind from Plato's Repub...ok ok sorry, but what I'm saying in essence is we could easily lose this by 50 if we're not careful, and those backs of theirs are electric, so all respect due to Cambodia."

Aaaaaaaiiirrr is a lovely thing, in fact it is rather vital for human beings. But like all good things, it ought to not be overused. Not to insult anyone here (especially not you The Jones Boy, I mean your name alone practically procures carnal envy in me) but there's a strange sublimation phenomenon or something similar where the hot air spontaneously transforms into a bull's waste, with no intermediary stage. It's a fairly strange thing to behold, but sure enough it happens every day. It tends to occur when people do talking...politicians, media, aaaaand pro sports representatives are fantastic with it also. They have an answer for anything - ANYTHING !!! Rhetoric, the power to speak and say nothing.

So no,no...sorry. When UUUUUUUUUUURBBBody knows. They just know. The All-Blacks are thinking right now about just how to smash em, they know their strengths and their weakness, they know Wales don't have their speed, quickness, command of a healthy skillset. And it's the AB, they don't underestimate like some do.

Ummmn, I think "The Jones Boy" may have been trying to derail the "who's better - Barrett, Cruden, or Donald" thread, or was it the "which 10 won the RWC final" thread, and turn it into an "All Blacks V Wales" thread ... maybe he should be commended for trying to do so, rather than criticised for showing Wales respect

 

[Larksea]

The score while Cruden was on the field - 5-0. The score when replaced by Donald 8-7. What magnificent game management by Donald. My favorite moment was when he runs the ball into touch without being tackled, and then tries an offload back in. It was fantastic. Donald landed a basic penalty kick and made several tackles. Hurrah! Other than that he only passed the ball three times all match.

I really want Julian Savea to start this match and hopefully bag some tries. Wouldn't mind seeing Carter being used from the bench, but like others have said that spot is most likely Barrett's. I think this will probably be another very close match, this EOYT has really been a pretty unconvincing one so far, so I would love it if we managed a really strong game to finish up (which hasn't been the case in the last two EOYT's).

oh come on you can do better than that!

"The score while Cruden was on the field - 5-0. The score when replaced by Donald 8-7."

you still think the first and second half were the same? you still think the french played the same from the opening whistle and when they went down 8-0? Just like the first and 2nd half were the same in 1999 & 2007? Can you find an even thinner argument?

"My favorite moment was when he runs the ball into touch without being tackled, and then tries an offload back in."

was a strange moment but not a disaster and when he threw the ball back infield he prevented a quick throw. He was isolated with hardly anyone around him an opposition line out in that situation is not such a bad result it could have been worse. Running into touch was a low risk option. Welcome to RWC finals rugby 101.

"Donald landed a basic penalty kick and made several tackles."

Donald made a kick from a similar position Piri missed in a situation Cruden wasn't even trusted with kicking in the most important game in NZ rugby history. And he made more tackles per minute on the field than ANY other All Black.

"Other than that he only passed the ball three times all match."

Welcome to World Cup Finals Rugby 101, this is my entire point.

"I really want Julian Savea to start this match"

Nothing short of a natural disaster will stop Savea from starting!

The big question will be are we going to see Dagg at 15 and Smith at 14

Or Smith at 15 and Piutau at 14, Piutau is looking like he has points in him just waiting to jump onto the scoreboard.

 

[nickdnz]

oh come on you can do better than that!

"The score while Cruden was on the field - 5-0. The score when replaced by Donald 8-7."

you still think the first and second half were the same? you still think the french played the same from the opening whistle and when they went down 8-0? Just like the first and 2nd half were the same in 1999 & 2007? Can you find an even thinner argument?

"My favorite moment was when he runs the ball into touch without being tackled, and then tries an offload back in."

was a strange moment but not a disaster and when he threw the ball back infield he prevented a quick throw. He was isolated with hardly anyone around him an opposition line out in that situation is not such a bad result it could have been worse. Running into touch was a low risk option. Welcome to RWC finals rugby 101.

"Donald landed a basic penalty kick and made several tackles."

Donald made a kick from a similar position Piri missed in a situation Cruden wasn't even trusted with kicking in the most important game in NZ rugby history. And he made more tackles per minute on the field than ANY other All Black.

"Other than that he only passed the ball three times all match."

Welcome to World Cup Finals Rugby 101, this is my entire point.

"I really want Julian Savea to start this match"

Nothing short of a natural disaster will stop Savea from starting!

The big question will be are we going to see Dagg at 15 and Smith at 14

Or Smith at 15 and Piutau at 14, Piutau is looking like he has points in him just waiting to jump onto the scoreboard.

Nope, in the first we had some semblance of creativity and game management . In the second half we kicked everything away and spent the second half defending.

Not sure running the ball into touch is ever the safe option in the opponents 22. It seemed to me (and the other 200 people in the pub who laughed/boo's raucously) he entirely lost track of where the touchline was. Funny how you justify it though. Had Piri Weepu not had such a howler - and Ellis replaced him, we may well have seen Weepu kick in the second half too.

Think everyone is hoping for a Savea, Piatau, Smith combo. Blows my mind that people still rate Dagg as the best 15 in the country...

 

[Mikel92]

I don't see the harm if the thread gets off topic. Some of the discussions relate to who we should start for this particular game. As long as posts aren't absurdly irrelevant like what you had for dinner I think discussion is healthy

We have a depth at 10, but all three players have their own problems. Yeah Barrett is better off the bench, Hansen has acknowledged that. Carter, well he is clearly still rusty and will need continuity. Cruden's goal kicking is concerning, but the main thing I'm wondering is whether he's in the right head space ever since that missed flight incident. I'm not convinced he is. Look, it could swing either way. It'll be between Cruden and Carter, they are the starters.

When Carter gets continuity and regular game time, he is the best we have. The way he runs, gets involved in rucks, commands the pack around the field, fends players off. And his size is no barrier against a team like the 'Boks. Cruden is nifty on his feet but he can get rag dolled. There isn't much time until the World Cup, I'd be giving DC as much game time as I could. We're not going to succeed by going Cruden this week, Carter that week, Barrett the next week. That's just 2007 all over again. My reasoning for Carter is the same as SBW. Don't keep stop-starting, stick with them, even if they are a bit rusty in their first few games. I'm not disputing what Cruden is capable of, but what Carter is capable of is even greater when he is at his best in my opinion, and I really want to tap into that. I'm not saying Cruden is crap, he's clearly not.

Super Rugby is going to be very important next year is all I can say.

 

[Shaggy]

I'd agree, but I don't see how two players who can't be involved in this match (Donald and Weepu), are considered relevant, nor can I see how Cruden's 2011 form is relevant, when it's now 2014. How is a game against France in 2011 relevant to a game against Wales in 2014, and how does it encourage Welsh posters to post.

Interesting conversation, yes ... But maybe for another place

 

[Darwin]

For wales is Hook and Priestland really there only options now? Williams is the only other Welsh player to get regular gametime that is fit.

Ummm I think you are in the wrong thread. This thread has nothing to do with Wales. It is about the 2011 Rugby World Cup final isn't it? Wales was knocked out in the semis if I recall correctly

Where are all the Welsh posters by the way? It's unusual for the Welsh to be drowned out on a thread involving their side!

As much as I enjoy Stephen Donald's mother regaling us with tales if her sons deeds I do agree we should get back on topic. We will need to leave the re-telling of my favourite tale - how Donald heroically saved the AB's from a humiliating thrashing in Hong Kong - for another time

I'm hoping for a convincing AB's performance this weekend, but I've been waiting for one of those most of the season! I think we would have been much better off if we had started our top side against Scotland in terms of continuity, but hopefully Hansen knows what he is doing.

While I certainly understand the calls for Carter I do think AB's selection should be based on performance, and test level isn't the best place for players still finding there way back from injury. Personally I suspect we will get Cruden at 10 and Barrett on the bench (which is the way I would go). The rest of the backline picks itself (in the selectors eyes at least), though like many others I would love to see Piutau on the right wing and Smith at fullback.

Assuming Retallick and Kaino are fit they will start, otherwise we will see Thrush and Messam take their places. As others have alluded to Tuipolotu is the preferred bench lock, but I think Thrush may have a nose in front of him in terms of a starting locking option (and Romano made a solid return in the last test too).

 

[William18]

The fact we are having a Cruden versus Donald debate is strange. The reason the score was 5-0 when Cruden left was because the All Blacks conjured a nice lineout move, Weepu won a penalty and then kicked the ball far enough down field. Donald came on and played well and made a few nice tackles. Weepu had a poor game overall because he was injured in the warm ups. To me Carter's performance against Scotland was relatively indifferent but it is hardly fair to compare him with Cruden/Barrett who have got to play behind a better forward pack and Aaron Smith. If Cruden and Barrett had played well this season then one of them should probably start this weekend. I feel like the 10 jersey has been vacant all year but no one has claimed it and made it their own.

 

[austingtir]

Slade should be involved somewhere in this match imo. Either starting or on the bench.

The other three are simply not upto standard or in form.

Slade is actually the form 10 in the country....

 

[Mikel92]

Is he? Based on what?

 

[turmeric2015]

Jeepers, just read a bit of this thread, and boy are there some warped opinions.

Good thing the ABs have a world class coaching staff and selection panel, which to an extent settles much of what underpins the debate you are having.

At the end of the day, the selectors make their selections for a reason; they pick the players that are best for the job. Might pay to have a think about that because for some of you the actions of the selectors strongly support your opinions, for others.... well, they make you look a tad foolish if you ask me

 

[donmcdazzle]

Slade should be involved somewhere in this match imo. Either starting or on the bench.

The other three are simply not upto standard or in form.

Slade is actually the form 10 in the country....

How is he the form 10? A game of 7's for the baabaa's does not count by the way.

 

[turmeric2015]

How is he the form 10? A game of 7's for the baabaa's does not count by the way.

I think he's taking the pi ss out of the above debate.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I think he's taking the pi ss out of the above debate.

Na you're giving him too much credit, he has bandied Colin Slade around as the from 10 before in other threads. Along with his view that Aaron Smith is about the 5th or 6th best halfback in NZ.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Paul James (Bath), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), James Hook (Gloucester), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Gethin is not fit. Sanjay had a knock on his ankle and so they are monitoring it, hence why he makes the bench. Bradley Davies didn't train either to start the week off so he wasn't considered. Disappointing to see Lydiate over Tipuric.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well, France has lost to Argentina, Tonga, Italy, Romania, Canada and Germany in the past - albeit that is in 100 or so years - but it's best not to rule out upsets.

you're missing the point clearly nick. We never lost to *Cambodia*, (although it's only a matter of time.....). We're the French team man, we're fukd in the head, everybody knows that !! You can't compare us and other top nations, we're unique for better or worse. So okay okay, didn't mean to interrupt anything, please resume gratuitous complimenting of the Welsh and how terrifyingly they can play on their day at Millennium Stadium and just how much of an annoyance it's become this week to wash your clothes as you're uncontrollably defecating and urinating in your boxers intermittently through the day just as the notion of Cardiff pops into your mind. I'm just trying to prevent ppl using too many detergent products as they can be unhealthy over long term, and also the creation of bull's wastes can be detrimental, so I'm your friend here and am only looking out for your health ! How do you not see that, very disappointing...

 

[MojoPin]

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Paul James (Bath), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), James Hook (Gloucester), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Gethin is not fit. Sanjay had a knock on his ankle and so they are monitoring it, hence why he makes the bench. Bradley Davies didn't train either to start the week off so he wasn't considered. Disappointing to see Lydiate over Tipuric.

Despite everything a pretty strong team. Gethin would have had to be a sub even if he was fit I think, seemed to do better against Australia when he came on late. Though I'm not a fan I'm sad to see that Liam Williams isn't starting - not dependable enough to oust Halfpenny IMO but would have much rather seen him take Cuthbert's place on the right wing. Lydiate over Tipuric is another odd one, I agree. Tips has a much better game at the moment I think, Lydiate's style can be situational sometimes, and would have been better used against South Africa in my eyes. Really glad to see Davies back though and more than happy to see him jump straight in at 13. Might be a little undercooked but on his day is one of our best players.

One sad but ultimately good thing is Hook on the bench as opposed to Priestland. He's a good player but sadly Hook makes a better backup - having said that, I still think people look at Hook with rose-tinted glasses. Can be great on his day but nowhere near out number 1 option. Personally hoping that Owen Williams and Gareth Anscombe get a shot in the Six Nations next year.

Predictions? Really I'd be happy enough if we kept a loss within 10 points of NZ. There's always a chance that the Wales we know and love could turn up and provide an upset, but judging by the last couple games it's pretty unlikely. Ultimately, just hoping for an entertaining game either way after the unrelenting tedium that was the Fiji game...

 

[Neil Lewis]

Disappointing line up, though entirely predictable. Picking Lydiate ahead of Tipuric smacks of negativity and for me transmits to tiebreak that Gatland is more afraid of what the opposition can do to us than what we & Tipuric can do to them. You can make a strong case I suppose if there's a side to donut against its NZ, but for me you have to go for it.

Only minuscule quibbles elsewhere, but with one caveat... I love Jamie Roberts, but feel he has been turned into a meat head bulldozer when he is anything but. While never blisteringly quick, he was able to play full back & wing when he first came through and was a pretty skilful player. Now he's bulked up too much and seems to want contact all the time. Not a criticism of him, but the way he has been moulded. I personally feel Wales are crying out for a playmaker a la Henson in his prime of 2004. Not a Hook fan at all, but if he is to ever play for Wales it has to be at 12 for me, even though I have severe doubts about him. For me he shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, been tried and failed too many times.

Halfpenny is a super player who seems to be playing under constraint. A far more naturally attacking and gifted player than we have seen for a while, his supreme kicking masking some ineffective displays with ball in hand and a worrying lack of technical ability when it comes to tackling. I would try him on the wing and perhaps take one more chance that Liam Williams can build upon some very exciting performances and eradicate the absolute stupidity &
Indiscipline in his game that threatens to destroy a promising international career.