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[2014 EOYT] Scotland vs New Zealand

News for the Scotland team. David Denton to replace Tim Swinson on the bench after the latter injured his back in training.
 
Sorry if this had been discussed but are NZ wearing white tomorrow? And when did the away team start wearing alternate strip?
 
As far as I know I think NZ will be wearing black & Scotland wearing their away shirts. Gives the Scotland marketing boys & chance to get the new away kit on display for the first time.
 
ok, just seen some shots of the white jersey being laid out and Keven wearing one
 
no, not usually, might just be a promo shot
ab.jpg
 
Mikel92 said:
Barrett has been good and would be my second favourite gong right now (behind a fit and able DC). I wouldn't, and I very much doubt Hansen would, have any troubles giving him a start in the black jersey. Wouldn't be my pick for a World Cup Final, but I wouldn't be having nightmares about it either. Shesh, if Stephen Donald can do it anyone can. But Barrett's strength, I feel, is off the bench as an impact player. He's chased down some of the fastest backline players in the world, just ask Australia and South Africa.

Nobody commands a pack around the park like Daniel Carter does. As solid as Barrett and Cruden are, they've never had the army-general command Carter has. Which is what a first five should be good at. Carter was doing offloads and brushing through defence before SBW made it fashionable. But it's the way he kicks, and WHEN he kicks. The only person who can rival his kicking game in New Zealand is Dagg. I could go on about Carter's positives. Anyway, sure he may be rusty. And you probably won't see the BEST Dan Carter out there against Scotland. But with consistent game time, he is our man.

Cruden, while he be solid in some areas, comes nowhere close to a fit Dan Carter and never has done. The fact he has started so often is more down to the fact Barrett thrives on coming off the bench, and Slade will injure a finger picking up the telephone.
Click to expand...

that much is right ! :rolleyes:
And I've seen my fair share of DC, it's just DC today I was leaning into. nick hasn't even replied to my post, so thanks for doing it yourself, you and WilliamWallace18. I'm not under the impression the AB staff have DC as no.1 given what I've seen recently as explained previously. I'm not so much debating who NZers feel 'should be' no.1 as I am questioning whether the NZRU consider Carter no.1. Doesn't feel that way...and Hansen is an All-Blacks coach, traditionally they're not like the recent French ones who like to pick all over the national territory, esp. Saint-André. So picking a guy like Dagg is first of all not a heresy, he's not a joke despite being Knoxville's replica - and second is testament to a certain continuity, I mean the guy isn't 35 yet.

Now about commanding a pack and all that, Aaron Smith seems to help out in that but Cruden doesn't seem to be a very vocal, charisma-oriented presence. He seems very reserved and content on doing his job, which he does fairly well. And Barrett is just a teenager, isn't he, he needs time; albeit a talented one with indeed excellent race/chase pace. Face ?
Globally though, if I'm a NZ fan, I'm not too settled on the FH situation. Nobody will deny Cruden's talent, and we've all seen Barret's ability, and even though nobody expected another Dan Carter, the AB have everything at such a high standard Cruden still isn't the gem we may've expected in theory.
 
Big Ewis said:
that much is right ! :rolleyes:
And I've seen my fair share of DC, it's just DC today I was leaning into. nick hasn't even replied to my post, so thanks for doing it yourself, you and WilliamWallace18. I'm not under the impression the AB staff have DC as no.1 given what I've seen recently as explained previously. I'm not so much debating who NZers feel 'should be' no.1 as I am questioning whether the NZRU consider Carter no.1. Doesn't feel that way...and Hansen is an All-Blacks coach, traditionally they're not like the recent French ones who like to pick all over the national territory, esp. Saint-André. So picking a guy like Dagg is first of all not a heresy, he's not a joke despite being Knoxville's replica - and second is testament to a certain continuity, I mean the guy isn't 35 yet.

Now about commanding a pack and all that, Aaron Smith seems to help out in that but Cruden doesn't seem to be a very vocal, charisma-oriented presence. He seems very reserved and content on doing his job, which he does fairly well. And Barrett is just a teenager, isn't he, he needs time; albeit a talented one with indeed excellent race/chase pace. Face ?
Globally though, if I'm a NZ fan, I'm not too settled on the FH situation. Nobody will deny Cruden's talent, and we've all seen Barret's ability, and even though nobody expected another Dan Carter, the AB have everything at such a high standard Cruden still isn't the gem we may've expected in theory.
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to offend, the others summed up my thoughts more or less nicely..

Do I think Daniel Carter is #1?

Well, I think no one is relying on Daniel Carter being in the frame. He simply has been injured so frequently. What I am sure of is that Daniel Carter has the most complete game when he's on form - and if by some miracle he was able to get four games in a row without injury, I think Hansen would back him to start in a must win game. His goal and tactical kicking consistency alone would be a big draw, his tackling is the best, his decision making is probably the best. I wouldn't read anything into Carter being played at 12 for the Crusaders for several reasons. The first is that Carter came in mid season with Slade starting at 10 and Taylor another option. The second and most important: Todd Blackadder is a rubbish coach who makes rubbish selections all the time.

Both Cruden and Barrett are world class 1st 5/8ths in my opinion. I think Cruden's passing game and ability to execute set plays is probably second to none atm, while Barrett makes huge impact, particularly with his running game. I think we're in a the weird situation of genuinely not knowing who our best 1st 5/8th is at the moment. Hansen said he thought it was Barrett prior to the England match, but selected Cruden. Carter I don't think is selected to start because he's just come from a massive leg injury in the SR final and only had a few games of rugby. If he has a blinder against Scotland he could well be our first choice (although he'll never again be our only choice).
 
@TRF_nickdnz alright thanks. Makes sense...and yeah nobody I'm sure doubts Cruden and Barrett are world class. But I'd say Barrett is very perfectible, and Cruden's ceiling isn't very far from now and in hindsight isn't vertiginous.

It's interesting because as a guy who's always been a spectator of the Dan Carter show with his excellence ball in hand; I do know he's a good passer, defender and goal kicker for sure; but I wouldn't have thought about making the comment his tactical kicking was exceptional. I know he's good there but the rest is overwhelming and we forget he's also so fundamentally sound. He just gathered everything, everything you want from a FH. He's just such a rare, fine coincidence of so many things...there won't be another guy like him in a long, long time. And while he's ridiculously unlucky with WC's, he's been very fortunate to be able to show what he can do on one of the biggest stages, the B&I Lions challenge, that second test has immortalized him forever and I say he's fortunate because if not for such opportunities people would criticize him for never showing what he could do when the spotlight's the brightest.
Anyways, that's Dan Carter...we'll see what he's still got in his belleh this w-e.
 
If only DC was built in the same way as McCaw, he would probably still be slotting in conversion with a broken ankle or something.
 
Big Ewis said:
that much is right ! :rolleyes:
And I've seen my fair share of DC, it's just DC today I was leaning into. nick hasn't even replied to my post, so thanks for doing it yourself, you and WilliamWallace18. I'm not under the impression the AB staff have DC as no.1 given what I've seen recently as explained previously. I'm not so much debating who NZers feel 'should be' no.1 as I am questioning whether the NZRU consider Carter no.1. Doesn't feel that way...and Hansen is an All-Blacks coach, traditionally they're not like the recent French ones who like to pick all over the national territory, esp. Saint-André. So picking a guy like Dagg is first of all not a heresy, he's not a joke despite being Knoxville's replica - and second is testament to a certain continuity, I mean the guy isn't 35 yet.

Now about commanding a pack and all that, Aaron Smith seems to help out in that but Cruden doesn't seem to be a very vocal, charisma-oriented presence. He seems very reserved and content on doing his job, which he does fairly well. And Barrett is just a teenager, isn't he, he needs time; albeit a talented one with indeed excellent race/chase pace. Face ?
Globally though, if I'm a NZ fan, I'm not too settled on the FH situation. Nobody will deny Cruden's talent, and we've all seen Barret's ability, and even though nobody expected another Dan Carter, the AB have everything at such a high standard Cruden still isn't the gem we may've expected in theory.
Click to expand...

I think we'll find out who is #1 in the game against Wales.

I think they all have their strengths and weaknesses:

- Carter has so much time. Aaron Smith and Dan Carter haven't played together too much but I don't think Carter needs the quick ball that Smith provides. Carter played outside some very slow halfbacks in the likes of Weepu and Ellis in his career. They weren't bad players but were hardly great distributors. We always got away with this because Carter is so good with defenders on him. It's very rare that Carter gets rushed into making a kick or making a poor pass.

- Cruden is very good when he chooses to run at the defence with SBW outside him. I like Cruden because he always keeps the defence guessing. Sometimes he runs it up to the line and steps and other times he offloads. It's just the tactical kicking which I think Cruden lacks.

- Barrett is good in the last 20 when play has been broken up. Other times I feel he is too predictable and doesn't control a game well enough..
 
Big Ewis said:
Now about commanding a pack and all that, Aaron Smith seems to help out in that but Cruden doesn't seem to be a very vocal, charisma-oriented presence. He seems very reserved and content on doing his job, which he does fairly well.
Click to expand...

yeah, although the way Carter leads a pack around the field was receiving accolades before Aaron Smith was even a twinkle in his Mum and Dad's eyes (well not quite, but before he came on to the rugby scene anyway haha). Like mentioned, the thing I like is Carter knows when to kick and sums up a situation well - and the distance on his kicks is notably longer than Cruden's. That's why I think Dagg has been such an injection in Carter's absence. Carter is the master of the fend followed by the offload (although Cruds can pop the ball up too), and for a backline player his tackling and work at the ruck has always been extremely good.

Who the NZRU sees as their number one? I think if you compare the pay packets you'd have the answer. If Carter is fit and capable of playing, healthy and everything is in working order, I'd say they'd prefer him. If Carter is unavailable then Cruden is the preferred incumbent. Hansen is on record as saying it'd make more sense to have Barrett coming off the bench than the other way round. Having said that, I guess in this year's RC they looked at Barrett a little closer and got some answers. Not the ground breaking form of 2012 and '13, but still capable of chasing down the quickest players going.

Carters had a few injuries now and traditionally hes taken a few games to get back into the groove. You may not seem him at his blistering best, but he should still be able to have some impressive movements against Scotland.
 
Last edited:
Many players who never play together so...

ABs by 7
 
I hope Dan Carter acquits himself well. It seems Fekitoa has been relegated . No matter how well he plays sonny bill and Nonu are ahead of him . I sympathised with Slade's unfortunate run of injuries. It is however nonsensical to play him on the wing with the hope of including him as a utility player.He has not shown me that he is a world class no 10. It appears as though Hansen will not risk a starting loose trio without Read or Richie. Victor Vito gets his chance. This too me is another sentimental choice. Lua tua is a much more effective player and a very good line out jumper.
The scots will test this all black side. I wish maitland a good game !
 
Chikwa said:
I hope Dan Carter acquits himself well. It seems Fekitoa has been relegated . No matter how well he plays sonny bill and Nonu are ahead of him . I sympathised with Slade's unfortunate run of injuries. It is however nonsensical to play him on the wing with the hope of including him as a utility player.He has not shown me that he is a world class no 10. It appears as though Hansen will not risk a starting loose trio without Read or Richie. Victor Vito gets his chance. This too me is another sentimental choice. Lua tua is a much more effective player and a very good line out jumper.
The scots will test this all black side. I wish maitland a good game !
Click to expand...

It is great that the AB's seem to have some depth in the midfield for a change. The most difficult thing for the selectors is going to be who they leave out! At the moment there are 5 midfielders fighting for either 3 or 4 spots in the squad (depending on the make-up of the squad). If we were to take 4 midfielders I feel at this stage Fekitoa would be the one to miss out. It is essential in my opinion that we have an organizer in the midfield, so either Smith or Crotty need to start. SBW has looked very sharp since his return, and Nonu's experience is considered invaluable by the AB's selectors. If SBW proves himself to be the clear first choice 12 Nonu's spot in the squad may not be guaranteed, and he would really need to prove he deserves to be there....

I don't really see Vito as a sentimental choice. He has noticeably upped his physicality this season, and he is a specialist number 8, which is something the AB's selectors need should Read get injured. With his skill-set he has the potential the play a very similar role that Read plays too - a role that is essential to the current AB's game-plan. If Read was out injured I would feel much more comfortable with a 6. Kaino, 7. McCaw, 8. Vito trio than I would with a 6. Messam, 7. McCaw, 8. Kaino trio (or a 6. Kaino, 7. Cane, 8. McCaw trio), as I think Kaino is somewhat wasted at 8. He can do a job there, but the AB's have a specific role for their number 8 which doesn't exactly suit Kaino's strengths.

Luatua had a great season last year but hasn't really reached those heights this year. He is at his best playing a wide-ranging game, which isn't what the AB's are really looking for in the 6 jersey (they want someone playing much tighter to compliment Read's wider-ranging style). He has an abundance of talent and I have no doubt he will play plenty of tests for the AB's, but at this stage I can see why he isn't in the current AB's squad. He is an excellent lineout exponent as you suggest, but Vito himself is also superb in this area...
 

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