Scotland v New Zealand

[Ninja]

Anyone put any bets on this game?

I put $100 on Hose Gear for 1st try. He was paying 8-1. So a $800 return for me

 

[SelimNiai]

The only way Scotland had a hope of winning is if they had left the lights off before kick-off......but then we'd never have found out. Anyhoodles, nothing surprising in that game even if Andy Nichol was deluded enough to think that Scotland even had a slim hope of winning.

That said I don't think all the good work made from last year and the summer is lost just by that result.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Anyone put any bets on this game?

I put $100 on Hose Gear for 1st try. He was paying 8-1. So a $800 return for me

Bloody hell!
Best i've ever had was a fiver on Bastareaud to score the first try of Frances first 6N match last year - they had the ball tight on the line for aages and i thought a prop was going to power over, but then at the last minute they slung it out wide to him - never been happier to see France score a try
Only made £50, but £50 is £50!

 

[Ninja]

Yeah, that's the biggest bet I've ever placed. When I saw that number 11 on the back go under the posts for the try I was frozen for a few seconds until I realised that I won. I then missed the next 5mins of the game because I was jumping up and down with joy.

I was originally only going to put $20 on, but then thought I would up it to $50, but then when I was at the TAB I ended up putting $100 on which fortunately paid of for me

 

[Larksea]

Well, good game from the AB's. Poor refereeing from the ref to be honest. A few of my thoughts have been confirmed.

1. Stephen Donald is a gormless *******. The game imediatly become disorganised when he came on the field. Short of his one good brake, which I'm sure some will think is redemption, he should never wear an All Black jersey again. For a 1st 5/8th who has been praised for his defence, I don't think he can tackle for sh*t, he just scrags players jersy's, until someone else makes a tackle.

A first 5 should't commit to tackles unless they need to, because if there is a turnover they have to go straight into action and they cant do that if they are stuck at the bottom of a ruck. He stopped players from going forward or getting offloads what point whould their have been in going to ground with them and taking himself out of the next play? You blame him for the AB's becoming disorganised when he came on at the same time as about 4 other players and also in the next breath say that Andy Elis delivery is the slowest in the world. Maybe you blame Donald for Elis's slow delivery? No that penalty wasn't great, he just tried to do too much and only just got it wrong, must have only been 1-2m in it, if he did pull it off it would have been brilliant.

2. Andy Ellis' delivery is the slowest of any half back in the world. Some of Jimmy's passing was terrible, but at least he offers something in defence, Ellis is just so laxidasical.

Can't disagree here, the way Elis is playing it looks like his team mates dont even know what he's doing. And when the ball is so slow the 10 has almost nothing to work with and has to make play against a set defence. Mathewson is light years ahead of Elis right now.

3. Mils, should no longer be the All Blacks starting fullback. Yes, he scored to tries, and has 92 caps, but he really has just become more and more selfish in his play. He'll almost always try and break the line himself, despite there being an overlap, or he'll do an aimless kick down field, which just opens the AB's up to counter attack.

Apart from Mils kicking a bit too much and his kicks not really getting the right result He's not doing much else wrong. one thing you're maybe mot considering is that he is working with two new wings and neither Gear or Toeava are the counterattackers Jane & Roks are and it looks to me like they havn't got their counterattack sorted as a unit.

4. Anthony Boric is average. He's not terrible, but he screwed up every lineout jump. I'd have Thorn, Whitelock, Donnelly,Jack, Ross, Eaton and Williams (depending on recovery) all ahead of him in the pecking order.

I think you're being tough on Boric, their was nothing wrong in the AB lineout till Hore came on. The only thing Boric is suffering from is lack of gametime. Before his injury in the early international season he was the pick of the AB locks and since then he's hardly had a chance. Players need gametime to build - I hope he gets a chance to start and be a real part of the gameplan rather than feeding off scraps off the bench.

6. Liam Messam is the fastest flanker in the world at running side ways, getting isolated and losing ball. He made up for it in a few other parts of his game, but I'd really have Kaino and Vito ahead of him.

Messam got Isolated once and it was from a kickoff - because of that it really gomes down to where was his support? You can't blame him for that. He had a brilliant game, he played a major role in ~3 of the AB's trys by simply running at gaps with speed, drawing defenders and throwing some brilliant passes I think apart from the last try which was created By donald, Messam and Sonny bill created all the other trys between them. Messam was without a doubt the pick of the loose forwards. McCaw didn't have a good game - missed some tackles and gave away a lot of penalties. Read worked hard and did some good work but was pretty quiet really.

only other observations for me, as disapointed in Cowans game. I thought he played well in Hong Kong but his delivery was back to it's worst again this morning.

Sonny Bill was superb, not just the offloads but also his defence. Yes he does have to check himself sometimes and doesn't always get in the wright position but the reality is that when he's in the line he doesn't let anything through and that's the most important thing.

Good to see Messam have a good game, he created a few trys and did a lot of work in defence.

Gear - well Roks is a very good player and does a lot of good things on the field for the AB's. Works his arse off and gets involved, very sure on defence and good in support. But when Gear is on the field he scores trys, Lots of them. More than his share that's for sure. He doesn't have the complete game and he has quiet patches but you can't ognore the fact that he continues to score 5 pointers.

Toeava had a solid game too though it has to be noted that not much counterattacking happens when Gear & Toeava are on the park. I do think Jane & Roks are better in that area.

 

[Peat]

All I can say as a neutral is "Ouch"

 

[nickdnz]

only other observations for me, as disapointed in Cowans game. I thought he played well in Hong Kong but his delivery was back to it's worst again this morning.

Sonny Bill was superb, not just the offloads but also his defence. Yes he does have to check himself sometimes and doesn't always get in the wright position but the reality is that when he's in the line he doesn't let anything through and that's the most important thing.

Good to see Messam have a good game, he created a few trys and did a lot of work in defence.

Gear - well Roks is a very good player and does a lot of good things on the field for the AB's. Works his arse off and gets involved, very sure on defence and good in support. But when Gear is on the field he scores trys, Lots of them. More than his share that's for sure. He doesn't have the complete game and he has quiet patches but you can't ognore the fact that he continues to score 5 pointers.

Toeava had a solid game too though it has to be noted that not much counterattacking happens when Gear & Toeava are on the park. I do think Jane & Roks are better in that area.

Hosea Gear is a great counter attacker. He's no a Howlett style winger, he creates things from nothing. We saw that in the ITM Cup. He just never got given the ball the entire game, in a position to counter attack, as Mils would do a little shuffle and then get tackled, or he'd kick it away.

 

[Bazzy]

Not a big fan of Donald but I think a couple of you are being pretty harsh on him. Other than that one glaring mistake when he overcooked the penalty he had an ok game. He is ofcourse not exceptional like Dan and I still prefer Cruden or even Slade over him but atleast he didn't look too out of place this time around.

I was also pretty skeptical initially about Sonny Bill Williams but think I'm becoming a fan now. As long as those one handed passes stick, it's all good.

 

[Black Heart]

Not a big fan of Donald but I think a couple of you are being pretty harsh on him. Other than that one glaring mistake when he overcooked the penalty he had an ok game. He is ofcourse not exceptional like Dan and I still prefer Cruden or even Slade over him but atleast he didn't look too out of place this time around.

I was also pretty skeptical initially about Sonny Bill Williams but think I'm becoming a fan now. As long as those one handed passes stick, it's all good.

Yeah I think that's a general requirement for anyone playing test rugby.

 

[woodward]

I tihnk SBW is, right now, a bit of a batterring ram.

I'm curious as to how anyone could possibly come to this conclusion after having watched him play, unless the thought process didn't go any further than; big + brown + ex league forward = crash ball.

Not a fan of the one handed pass? Not a fan of line breaks and tries too?

 

[Sam Owen]

Anyone put any bets on this game?

I put $100 on Hose Gear for 1st try. He was paying 8-1. So a $800 return for me

Nah I didnt and Im gutted. I dont think I wouldve got good returns anyway, I wouldve betted on the ABs 12+ to win. A good bet would have to been England to beat the Wallies. Im jealous, nice score Ninja.


Scotlands defense was in tatters, you cant be like that when up against the All Blacks. Thats about all I can say about the game.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Someone tell me why Gear had been left out of the ABs for so long? Maybe the end of Rokococo... and Toeavas not a wing.

 

[admartian]

Yeah I think that's a general requirement for anyone playing test rugby.

Fully.

Plus, he didn't create that last try, there was quite a gaping hole there.

I'm curious as to how anyone could possibly come to this conclusion after having watched him play, unless the thought process didn't go any further than; big + brown + ex league forward = crash ball.

Not a fan of the one handed pass? Not a fan of line breaks and tries too?

Not at all.

I think those passes are acceptable now because we're playing Scotland (no offense) but I doubt anyone would be happy doing that in a RWC semi, with 5 minutes to go, and within +/- 3 points.

No one's saying that he's not valuable, but because people aren't saying things to which glorifies him, doesn't mean we're having a go....

 

[Darwin]

That was a very convincing display by the AB's, though the way Scotland played certainly allowed the AB's backline to look very impressive. Last week England rushed up in defense - though England missed the odd tackle, they put a huge amount of pressure on the AB's backline, forcing them into a lot of mistakes. In contrast Scotland's defense did not rush up - as a result they didn't actually miss many tackles (indeed according the Sky Sports stats they only missed 7 tackles, while the AB's missed 6), however there was no pressure on the AB's backline, therefore the AB's could keep running at them until they eventually found a gap.

I thought Hika Eliot had an impressive debut, doing the basics very well - he threw well to the lineouts, scrummed solidly, and did make a good steal at the tackle just before he was subbed off. We didn't see much of his trademark running game, but we may see that when he gets more game time at test level. The locks played well together, though Whitelock didn't standout as much as last week, I think he has established himself as NZ first choice locking partner for Brad Thorn. Messem played well at 6, and I thought Braid played well when he came on in the last 30 mins.

Cowan was impressive at halfback again. He had a couple of poor passes, but his defense was outstanding - Scotland broke the line at least twice only for Cowan to make a good tackle and stop the movement cold - it was almost as if the AB's had three lines of defense (with Mils at the back the third). I was really impressed with SBW. His offloading game was obviously impressive, however it was the other areas of SBW's game that really impressed me. His defense was very good, and he always seemed to make the right decision at tackle/ruck time - when it was time to hit the ruck he did so with great effect, and he even contributed to a turnover after getting over the ball after the tackle had been made. He's obviously been taught the game really well, as he played like someone who had been playing rugby union all his life.

Toeava was outstanding on the wing - I thought he should have been awarded man of the match. His work rate was huge, he made some big tackles in defense, and he broke a number of tackles despite having no room to move. Gear played pretty well on the other wing as well - Rococoko will really have to have a couple of huge games (if he gets another chance) if he is going to regain his wing spot. Muliaina was a bit of a mixed bag - when he decided to kick I think it was the right decision, however he did not execute his kicks very well. He did take the ball into contact a lot, but in most cases this was usually the right decision in my opinion, as the players outside him were actually in a worse position than him - at times like taking the tackle and starting the attack again can be the best choice.

 

[admartian]

That was a very convincing display by the AB's, though the way Scotland played certainly allowed the AB's backline to look very impressive. Last week England rushed up in defense - though England missed the odd tackle, they put a huge amount of pressure on the AB's backline, forcing them into a lot of mistakes. In contrast Scotland's defense did not rush up - as a result they didn't actually miss many tackles (indeed according the Sky Sports stats they only missed 7 tackles, while the AB's missed 6), however there was no pressure on the AB's backline, therefore the AB's could keep running at them until they eventually found a gap.

I thought Hika Eliot had an impressive debut, doing the basics very well - he threw well to the lineouts, scrummed solidly, and did make a good steal at the tackle just before he was subbed off. We didn't see much of his trademark running game, but we may see that when he gets more game time at test level. The locks played well together, though Whitelock didn't standout as much as last week, I think he has established himself as NZ first choice locking partner for Brad Thorn. Messem played well at 6, and I thought Braid played well when he came on in the last 30 mins.

Cowan was impressive at halfback again. He had a couple of poor passes, but his defense was outstanding - Scotland broke the line at least twice only for Cowan to make a good tackle and stop the movement cold - it was almost as if the AB's had three lines of defense (with Mils at the back the third). I was really impressed with SBW. His offloading game was obviously impressive, however it was the other areas of SBW's game that really impressed me. His defense was very good, and he always seemed to make the right decision at tackle/ruck time - when it was time to hit the ruck he did so with great effect, and he even contributed to a turnover after getting over the ball after the tackle had been made. He's obviously been taught the game really well, as he played like someone who had been playing rugby union all his life.

Toeava was outstanding on the wing - I thought he should have been awarded man of the match. His work rate was huge, he made some big tackles in defense, and he broke a number of tackles despite having no room to move. Gear played pretty well on the other wing as well - Rococoko will really have to have a couple of huge games (if he gets another chance) if he is going to regain his wing spot. Muliaina was a bit of a mixed bag - when he decided to kick I think it was the right decision, however he did not execute his kicks very well. He did take the ball into contact a lot, but in most cases this was usually the right decision in my opinion, as the players outside him were actually in a worse position than him - at times like taking the tackle and starting the attack again can be the best choice.

I think it really vmakes a difference being in between Conrad and Dan, especially with Conrad showing him the ropes.

Definitely a much better combination in the midfield.

 

[Shaggy]

I enjoyed the game and thought that the All Black team combinations are starting to gel better. I wasn't really too surprised that the AB's game lost a bit of it's shape when the replacements came on ... its bound to when six players come on in quick succession, and its a bit harsh to lay the blame on individuals. Donald's effort was better than his last one, and Ellis probably wont be in the mix at RWC time if Weepu is fit anyway ... I think that a good indication of how the replacements went, is if the team is in a better position on the score board at full time margin wise, and they were - they also didn't concede any points

 

[Gavin]

I was watching the match in a local pub with a Kiwi couple. I asked them who they would prefer in the mid-field for the World Cup, Sonny Bill or Nonu along with Smith. They both said Sonny Bill and Smith as Nonu is too hot and cold. To be fair they seemed to be a member of the Sonny Bill Williams fan club during the hole match - every time New Zealand had the ball they were screaming to pass it to Sonny Bill. What is the opinion of the Kiwi's in this forum? From the New Zealander's I've spoken to they believe Sonny Bill is the man of the moment.

 

[markshaw]

I was watching the match in a local pub with a Kiwi couple. I asked them who they would prefer in the mid-field for the World Cup, Sonny Bill or Nonu along with Smith. They both said Sonny Bill and Smith as Nonu is too hot and cold. To be fair they seemed to be a member of the Sonny Bill Williams fan club during the hole match - every time New Zealand had the ball they were screaming to pass it to Sonny Bill. What is the opinion of the Kiwi's in this forum? From the New Zealander's I've spoken to they believe Sonny Bill is the man of the moment.

His offload is the best in the world and here in NZ we love to keep the ball alive as long as we can so I'm a huge fan. There are some haters out there, not sure why after his performance against the Scots. I saw some one earlier in this topic saying "oh he wont be happy if he does it in the semi final etc.." Well I'm pretty sure Henry ,McCaw and Co. wouldnt be happy either and I cant see Sonny making those errors. Hes smart

 

[Larksea]

I think it's going to be interesting to see How nonu Reacts to all the fuss about sonny bill.

In recent seasons when nonu has been dropped to the bench he's then come out and destroyed sides next chance he gets

Great game from the AB's and they have been quick to take advantage of the sills Sonny Bill has. Compress the defence, give the ball to sonny and have a player outside him to take advantage of the gap & ball he creates.

Some awesome options in mid field and will only get better when Kahui is fit again too.

Great squad they have together now my only issues are with Elis & Cowan, While Cowans defence is good to have his ball clearance is just too slow, Elis is even worse and neither of them are a threat running the ball. I honestly cant remember the last time Cowan actually managed to exploit space/quick ball with a run. Weepu, mathewson & Leonard can all do that and it's a big part of their game, and they all produce much faster ball to the backline as well.

really look forward to the return of Weepu, Franks, Kahui & Dagg

hore didn't look too bad, couple of his lineout throws were not quite right but he got one of his trademark turnovers. Elliot was impressive too, didn't see his running game but his lineout throwing was spot on and he was busy around the field.

 

[dan the man]

I was watching the match in a local pub with a Kiwi couple. I asked them who they would prefer in the mid-field for the World Cup, Sonny Bill or Nonu along with Smith. They both said Sonny Bill and Smith as Nonu is too hot and cold. To be fair they seemed to be a member of the Sonny Bill Williams fan club during the hole match - every time New Zealand had the ball they were screaming to pass it to Sonny Bill. What is the opinion of the Kiwi's in this forum? From the New Zealander's I've spoken to they believe Sonny Bill is the man of the moment.

He is definitely a highly skilled player with a very unique ability, but i don't think that he's done enough to take Nonu's place... He wasn't outstanding against England and playing well against Scotland is good but they're hardly a benchmark team. Nonu's distribution skills have greatly improved over the last few seasons. it will be great to see Carter and SBW pairing up next season (as they will both be playing for Canterbury) and i think that he'll learn alot playing alongside him...

I'd still pick Nonu ahead of SBW. He's got over 50 Test caps to his name and it shows. But SBW is definitely proving that he's not to be taken lightly