[2014 EOYT] England vs New Zealand

[Toby Sweeney]

England were a little unlucky but did get the rub of the green in terms of refereeing, people saying Ford should of started are just wrong Sonny Bill up that channel would have been a disaster.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

bugger........

Sums it up, really.
We should've scored that Brown try early in the first half. Think that would've caused NZ to go a bit harder in the first half, probably still would've won, but hate those "what if..." moments.

Pretty happy with how we our players played individually, to be honest. Roko a little quiet but was obviously a marked man (Savea was on him as quick as the ball most times he took it) but May should've proved a few critics wrong. Eastmond/Barritt worked well in the centres. Pack went well - Kruis a little over enthusiastic on debut, rushing up for the intercept and leaving a gap that New Zealand will exploit every single time, but ignoring that he got really stuck him (saw him absolutely cream SBW and McCaw at ruck time). We have very good depth at lock.
Brookes and Mullan did well off the bench - bring back Corbs and Cole and we've probably got the best prop depth in the world (not saying we have the best scrum in the world, just that we have 3 players all of international standard in each position, whereas most countries would drop off a lot by that point) - I'm not 100% on the penalty try, think Nige was pandering to the crowd a bit on it, but I'll take it every day of the week.
Hartley had a good game too - Lineout went very well, and he was his usual abrasive/chippy self.

England were a little unlucky but did get the rub of the green in terms of refereeing, people saying Ford should of started are just wrong Sonny Bill up that channel would have been a disaster.

I dunno, going off of SBW's form today he'd have just offloaded to the ground before taking contact.

 

[admartian]

I have to see I've rarely seen a more one-eyed and graceless response to a match thread here, sans Darwin, who remains a gent.

One eyed and graceless? Towards whom? I've not disrespected the team - just the ref if anyone.

Can't say anything bad about the English team. Well played.

Please explain the one eyedness and "disgrace"? Disgrace because there are points being raised? wow...


you praise the one person not saying anything. funny that.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Only real positive England can take is it was our second choice front and 2nd row with a new midfield and wing. Having said that, we can't keep using the "new and inexperienced" excuse any more, we shouldn't be new and inexperienced after this much time and a year before the WC. Care and Farrell really need to be taught what a kick is meant to achieve, clue it is NOT to give hard fought possession immediately back to the most dangeorus opposition runners with no pressure.

 

[Patchey]

This ones banter level is strong... :0

Moving away from the one with poor chat, did anyone notice Farrell ended up at 13. Let's hope Lancaster don't get any ideas...

 

[admartian]

Rubbish

Nice.


Re-read my edit. Never seen it to that extent. When was the last time you saw a try given. the crowd throw a hissy fit, and the ref WANT to call TMO after the try was called?


no one is denying homefield advantage, but like i said, you lot are being disingenuous by saying that wasn't different from that.

 

[ruggabee]

England were frustrating to watch. They kicked way too much. I don't mind kicking if it's smart - to the corner or contested with chasers, but they were just hoofing back to the AB back three over and over. The ABs didn't play well but really felt England spent the second half just asking to lose.

 

[Maverick1987]

One eyed and graceless? Towards whom? I've not disrespected the team - just the ref if anyone.

Can't say anything bad about the English team. Well played.

Please explain the one eyedness and "disgrace"? Disgrace because there are points being raised? wow...


you praise the one person not saying anything. funny that.

Your answer should tell you everything you need to know .....

 

[j'nuh]

Congratulations to the Kiwis, another fine performance from a fine side.



Not Chris' fault too much at the end, daft daft pass to no one.

England's pack performance - Good
England's defence - Good
England's ability to finish out wide - Shaky

Now where have I heard that before...

I disagree. Other than the Brown drop in the first half, I don't think finishing was necessarily the problem. We simply didn't get near their line enough for that to be the issue. Plus, the ABs missed at least as many opportunities as we did. Had both teams taken all of their opportunities, I think the scoreline would have been much greater in the ABs favour.

Our problem was the breakdown, kicking game and aerial game. Too many penalties and lost ball at the breakdown. It's shown a big frailty in our pack imo. When you don't have Launchbury, Cole and Lawes available, it becomes more of a problem that you don't have a fetcher in the backrow imo. Would have been a great game for Kvesic. Not sure what to do about the ball lost at the breakdown. Breakdown needs to be focused on in training for next week. The kicking game didn't make enough meters and whilst the chasing was good, our physicality in the air was not. (The AB backline is a lot bigger than our own, so we were always going to lose that really, and should have worked around it.) Our kicking into space wasn't good enough either.

So for me, Ford starts next week and I'd look at bringing Kvesic in.

 

[nickdnz]

Well, decided not to comment during the game as I thought it would be put down as *****ing and moaning. Well, games over, we won. I'm not happy. One of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen. Simply pathetic. Rechecking tries because the crowd boo'd, double standards and simply wrong penalties in the scrums (when Crockett was on we had the better scrum and were getting penalized - yet no ground for a penalty try), not bothering to check who was off side when player prevents a try being scored and simply awarding a penalty, never checking off-side for player chasing kicks from the kick-off, and a ridiculous yellow card for a kick after a player is being pulled back into the ruck. Pathetic. Simply pathetic. I blame no one other than Nigel Owens, but I don't think I've seen a refereeing display that was more one sided. I was watching the game with an English mate of mine who is a die hard England fan and crashing at my flat tonight, he was joking most of the match about the good value Nigel Owens was for England. That was insane, I would have gone to bed and said '**** this' had he not been up to watch it anyway.

On the match...ugh. Well there are some good sides. Patrick Tuipulotu was very good value for most of the match, but jeez we had some trouble in the lineouts (which England were very solid in). May scored a great try. We need to sort out our goal kicking too. Otherwise I have little to add. I need to sleep and rewatch this tomorrow, maybe Owens isn't a complete f*cking disgrace and I just need a good night sleep. Doubt it though, that was horrific.

Also: I really don't give a ***** if anyone calls 'poor winner' or 'sour grapes' like I very much predict. New Zealanders can't complain win, lose or draw as it's obviously bad sports - but this was shocking. I'm just thankful we won and my petulance comes from obviously being a bad winner than inevitably being a sore loser.

 

[admartian]

Your answer should tell you everything you need to know .....

So no one can have a go at refs now?

Seriously, not had a go at anyone but the ref and suddenly that's disgraceful because England are involved? Sure, I'll remember that one next time any team has a bad ref day. \


Serious question - what was disgraceful? I insulted no one, not postersm not any team, not sworn at any team/anyone. Nigel (the ref- whom ew all have a go at at one point or another) is the only one.


Stop with the on worded snarkiness and actually someone try to explain where I'm acting out of usual behavior here, or anywhere?

Well, decided not to comment during the game as I thought it would be put down as *****ing and moaning. Well, games over, we won. I'm not happy. One of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen. Simply pathetic. Rechecking tries because the crowd boo'd, double standards and simply wrong penalties in the scrums (when Crockett was on we had the better scrum and were getting penalized - yet no ground for a penalty try), not bothering to check who was off side when player prevents a try being scored and simply awarding a penalty, never checking off-side for player chasing kicks from the kick-off, and a ridiculous yellow card for a kick after a player is being pulled back into the ruck. Pathetic. Simply pathetic. I blame no one other than Nigel Owens, but I don't think I've seen a refereeing display that was more one sided. I was watching the game with an English mate of mine who is a die hard England fan and crashing at my flat tonight, he was joking most of the match about the good value Nigel Owens was for England. That was insane, I would have gone to bed and said '**** this' had he not been up to watch it anyway.

One the match...ugh. Well there are some good sides. Patrick Tuipulotu was very good value for most of the match, but jeez we had some trouble in the lineouts. We need to sort out our goal kicking too. Otherwise I have little to add. I need to sleep and rewatch this tomorrow, maybe Owens isn't a complete f*cking disgrace and I just need a good night sleep. Doubt it though, that was horrific.

how disgraceful of you, Nick....


/s

 

[Maverick1987]

Nice.


Re-read my edit. Never seen it to that extent. When was the last time you saw a try given. the crowd throw a hissy fit, and the ref WANT to call TMO after the try was called?


no one is denying homefield advantage, but like i said, you lot are being disingenuous by saying that wasn't different from that.

To be fair it took literally 2 seconds to check . Had it been short he would be praised . I thought he was a bit keen to give the try considering he was on the wrong side . You will never catch me complaining about a ref checking to ensure the right decision ....

 

[GoTheNaki]

England's 16 man defense was fantastic today. ABs could have won by 20+ and destroyed the English morale if it wasn't for that extra man. Absolutely disgusting, I called the inevitable yellow card before the match, but the tries that should have been... Disgusted.

Its a tale of two halves as always for the ABs. Aaron Smith can't play vs England, they really do have his number. Once again, Israel Daggs defence was highlighted by a try he should have stopped. I don't believe in Aaron Cruden anymore, he was "just ok", again, how many times is he going to be "just ok" in a black jersey?

Overall England got smashed in the 2nd half, the score really saves face for the Poms and casual fans will think that meant it was close.

Will be interesting to see what the Boks can bring. Will be excited for Handre Pollard if he starts, rated him since u20s.

 

[first5eight]

The only time I've ever seen a try awarded and then rubbed out is if there is foul play involved. That was very bizarre how Owens went back and had a look... Was almost like they they were trying hard to not give the try. Thought Whitelocks disallowed try was very marginal as well. Still, your bound to expect hometown calls. The ABs can play sooo much better than that but we'll take the ugly win.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Well, decided not to comment during the game as I thought it would be put down as *****ing and moaning. Well, games over, we won. I'm not happy. One of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen. Simply pathetic. Rechecking tries because the crowd boo'd, double standards and simply wrong penalties in the scrums (when Crockett was on we had the better scrum and were getting penalized - yet no ground for a penalty try), not bothering to check who was off side when player prevents a try being scored and simply awarding a penalty, never checking off-side for player chasing kicks from the kick-off, and a ridiculous yellow card for a kick after a player is being pulled back into the ruck. Pathetic. Simply pathetic. I blame no one other than Nigel Owens, but I don't think I've seen a refereeing display that was more one sided. I was watching the game with an English mate of mine who is a die hard England fan and crashing at my flat tonight, he was joking most of the match about the good value Nigel Owens was for England. That was insane, I would have gone to bed and said '**** this' had he not been up to watch it anyway.

One the match...ugh. Well there are some good sides. Patrick Tuipulotu was very good value for most of the match, but jeez we had some trouble in the lineouts. We need to sort out our goal kicking too. Otherwise I have little to add. I need to sleep and rewatch this tomorrow, maybe Owens isn't a complete f*cking disgrace and I just need a good night sleep. Doubt it though, that was horrific.

I can name a handful of referees that have had worse games recently. Think your post is a bit OTT mind. Easy to have a pop at the ref. He wasn't great for the bits I checked in but he was consistent in what he gave.

 

[admartian]

To be fair it took literally 2 seconds to check . Had it been short he would be praised . I thought he was a bit keen to give the try considering he was on the wrong side . You will never catch me complaining about a ref checking to ensure the right decision ....

No issue with the FACT he checked. none.

But to do it in the manner he did i have a problem. Any other game/team i would've laughed and said wow, influenced much. This game, my team are involved, im annoyed. Not denying that.


Either point still stands.

 

[j'nuh]

Well, decided not to comment during the game as I thought it would be put down as *****ing and moaning. Well, games over, we won. I'm not happy. One of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen. Simply pathetic. Rechecking tries because the crowd boo'd, double standards and simply wrong penalties in the scrums (when Crockett was on we had the better scrum and were getting penalized - yet no ground for a penalty try), not bothering to check who was off side when player prevents a try being scored and simply awarding a penalty, never checking off-side for player chasing kicks from the kick-off, and a ridiculous yellow card for a kick after a player is being pulled back into the ruck. Pathetic. Simply pathetic. I blame no one other than Nigel Owens, but I don't think I've seen a refereeing display that was more one sided. I was watching the game with an English mate of mine who is a die hard England fan and crashing at my flat tonight, he was joking most of the match about the good value Nigel Owens was for England. That was insane, I would have gone to bed and said '**** this' had he not been up to watch it anyway.

One the match...ugh. Well there are some good sides. Patrick Tuipulotu was very good value for most of the match, but jeez we had some trouble in the lineouts. We need to sort out our goal kicking too. Otherwise I have little to add. I need to sleep and rewatch this tomorrow, maybe Owens isn't a complete f*cking disgrace and I just need a good night sleep. Doubt it though, that was horrific.

One sided? Maybe fans only notice when a referee wrongly penalises their own team. There were certainly times where England fans could feel aggrieved e.g. McCaw getting away with everything at the breakdown once more.

It was definitely, definitely a yellow. What Hartley did was silly and was a penalty (and the TMO said it was a penalty given against Hartley at the time). No gripes there. If Coles had moved on, it would have been a NZ penalty. Coles lashed out instead. Yes there was provocation but the point is that what Hartley did was handbags compared to Coles reacting violently. Whilst it wasn't that forceful, it was directed to the ankle, which cannot take as much strain as other parts of the body. Also, Coles didn't even lash out at Hartley. He struck Care's foot, who was stuck in the bottom of a ruck. Coles deserved the yellow imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Care's box kicking was what annoyed me - he'd watch Roko or May get tackled, then box kick the ball down their wing, where there's literally no chacers (or maybe a tight 5 forward filling in there) - just stupid.

 

[admartian]

One sided? Maybe fans only notice when a referee wrongly penalises their own team.

It was definitely, definitely a yellow. What Hartley did was silly and was a penalty (and the TMO said it was a penalty given against Hartley at the time). No gripes there. If Coles had moved on, it would have been a NZ penalty. Coles lashed out instead. Yes there was provocation but the point is that what Hartley did was handbags compared to Coles reacting violently. Whilst it wasn't that forceful, it was directed to the ankle, which cannot take as much strain as other parts of the body. Also, Coles didn't even lash out at Hartley. He struck Care's foot, who was stuck in the bottom of a ruck. Coles deserved the yellow imo.

Well that just tells me Coles can't kick/aim for ****! :lol:

 

[Maverick1987]

England's 16 man defense was fantastic today. ABs could have won by 20+ and destroyed the English morale if it wasn't for that extra man. Absolutely disgusting, I called the inevitable yellow card before the match, but the tries that should have been... Disgusted.

Its a tale of two halves as always for the ABs. Aaron Smith can't play vs England, they really do have his number. Once again, Israel Daggs defence was highlighted by a try he should have stopped. I don't believe in Aaron Cruden anymore, he was "just ok", again, how many times is he going to be "just ok" in a black jersey?

Overall England got smashed in the 2nd half, the score really saves face for the Poms and casual fans will think that meant it was close.

Will be interesting to see what the Boks can bring. Will be excited for Handre Pollard if he starts, rated him since u20s.

Tbh I think that's quite harsh on England's defence . You had 80 odd possession for the second half and won the half by just 6 points . Care and Farrell didn't do enough to relieve the pressure on the forwards