• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

2014 6 Nations: England vs Wales (Round 4)

I hope the RFU use the sevens more as a development tool for guys coming out of the u20's.
They are a little too isolated from the 15's pathway for my liking.


I think sevens is rather useless as a development tool. There's a completely different skill set required and in many ways playing a lot of sevens could prove to be detrimental to an aspiring fifteens player. It'd be much more beneficial to have the Saxons side take a more active role, playing games more regularly against the tier two nations.
 
I'm not too sure Wales' performances should be simply put down to a Lions hangover. There may be a little truth in it, with the likes of Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun-Wyn Jones etc. below their best, with it being most obvious against Ireland, but I think there's more to it. Today, the tactics were simply shocking. How is giving the most dangerous back-three in this years tournament uncontested ball a tactic? Why kick the ball straight to England's most potent ball carrier, again with no pressure applied, from the kick-off a tactic? This killed us in the first half, handing possession and territory to England on a silver platter. We weren't good enough, and England too organised to change the course of the game in the second half.

I also think that teams now fully understand how to stop Wales playing. The SH teams have been able to do so all along, but it's taken the NH sides a few years. I don't know a single Welsh rugby fan who hasn't been calling out for years for the tactics to be modified. It has brought us success, but a team must evolve if it wants to continue succeeding, and Gatland hasn't changed anything about his game plan. There is always a place for direct running and physicality, but there needs to be some subtlety there as well, and at the moment we have no subtlety at all. We hope that Roberts or North can break a tackle in midfield, but today they were running into the likes of Lawes and getting nowhere. There's also zero evidence of a back-three that actually works together to counter attack. You'd think that those three could drop back and cause havoc on the counter attack, but all we get is an up and under from Halfpenny.

For years Gatland has churned out the same line, that Wales keep the ball on the park because they have superior fitness. That simply isn't the case any longer, England and Ireland are easily as fit, in fact they are fitter this season!

If Gatland is willing to change his tactics, then there's no reason to panic. We've still got a hugely talented squad of players that are capable of playing a different game plan. I actually think a lot of them would suit a different game plan, as evidenced with last years performance against England, where I thought Wales employed a much more subtle game plan.

So the ball's in Gatland's court. The problem is, he's been totally unwilling to change anything in the past, despite similar (or worse) runs of form/results. This should act as an eye opener, that he has a year to tinker with the tactics and the team, so we can emerge a better side come RWC time. A good start would be to drop Rhys Priestland, who's had far, far to many chances now.
 
Enjoyed that, thought england were good Value for the win, some nice rugby at times, and i thought we finally saw 36's passing game coming into it... Back three were excellent, and Robshaw was immense as usual. Lawes and Launchbury were incredible, and Care goes from strength to strenght.

It's such a shame we've been sticthced up with the summer tour schedule.
 
More bad news for Wales Halfpenny out for the rest of the season.
 
Wales found out tactically for the second time in three games. Where do they go from here?


To Dan Biggar, he's head and shoulders above Preistland and can control a game as well as get the line moving. Priestland needs to sit on the Bench for a bit.
 
I think sevens is rather useless as a development tool. There's a completely different skill set required and in many ways playing a lot of sevens could prove to be detrimental to an aspiring fifteens player. It'd be much more beneficial to have the Saxons side take a more active role, playing games more regularly against the tier two nations.

It's pretty useful for producing outside backs and flankers. Many top standard ABs have benefited from the sevens set up ie. fitness, speed, ball handling, link play/support. They're forced a lot more to strengthen those areas of their game in sevens. I wish I could remember who it was but there was an AB who was asked how sevens was beneficial and it was something along those lines. A lot of emphasis on fitness I remember that much. Then again, I haven't really seen any other country convert sevens players to the XVs game to the same effect. But that in itself could be a clue as to why the ABs are so attack minded and pull it off so well with their forwards being equally adept with ball in hand.
 
As a Blues fan, I am gutted that I will not see Leigh in a Blues shirt again. I feel he came into his own at Cardiff and was a big part of the team that won a bit of silver wear and got to a Semi of the HC. Scotland will feel they have a chance now!

Gats made a big error not subbing Gethin Jenkins when he was on his final warning today, to add to the list of bad moves. Why sub him once he's had the yellow?
 
I think sevens is rather useless as a development tool. There's a completely different skill set required and in many ways playing a lot of sevens could prove to be detrimental to an aspiring fifteens player. It'd be much more beneficial to have the Saxons side take a more active role, playing games more regularly against the tier two nations.

I completely and totally disagree. Yes, it is a different sport, but there's more than enough overlap. It certainly doesn't seem to harm the Kiwis or Ozzies. You want to get a player on the ball, you can to get him comfortable in open space and to practice beating a man repeatedly, Sevens is good. I would like to see more young English prospects who are on the fringes of their club squads play some Sevens.
 
Exactly, even if they are just spending a couple of months training - that will get them into very good nick both cardio wise and in terms of handling and vision.
 
I don't buy the vision argument one bit. You don't get 25 meters of space in the fifteens games. In sevens you can get by just on pace because there's always room to maneuver in. That's not the case in modern rugby, you have to work in close confinement. I don't want wingers who think that they can get by just running fast in a straight line. No kicking, no tight play, minimal ruck play, etc. Stuff you need.
 
That was great to watch and if Burrell had got that try in the corner I would have said that was try of the tournament. Only major gripes are that Nowell still doesn't seem to trust his ability to go and finish, despite showing his strength and speed. May also is running sideways FAR too much and doesn't seem to like passing. There is a time and place for it but at the moment he is just hogging the ball far too much.

Also PLEASE less penalties. I remember how frustrated I was at England under Johnson due to the terrible discipline. Hartley was the cause back then and he fell back into bad habits this game. We can't just gift teams 18 points like that.
 
May for me is out.... he's not had the impact i wanted, so i'd go with yarde. Nowell is a keeper for me, he's been excellent and he always beats the first man - his work rate is just fantastic.
 
Sevens trains ball-handling skills in a way XVs struggles to. Get kids playing sevens from a young age, and muscle memory will take care of a lot of work. Ten years of that in addition to playing some XV will give us better players at professional level. But that would mean a switch to summer rugby. Why we aren't playing summer rugby in the first place is pretty shocking. You get a better brand of rugby, more people are likelier to play in the sun than in the cold, and you no longer have to compete with football. Keeping the status quo makes no sense on any level.

I've always thought that a fit/in-form Lawes has to play for England. Launchbury is basically penned into the WC starting 23 for me. Amongst those two, you have perhaps the most freakishly athletic second row combination around. Both get through so much work and have such a specific physical skill set, that it's left me wondering where Parling fits in. I was worried that the lineout would be worse without him, and maybe it is ever so slightly, but I think it's a price worth paying for those two. And then you have Attwood. And Stooke and Itoje on the way. How the frick were we ever stuck playing Botha? :p
 
Last edited:
Parling's lineout work is massively overplayed IMO.
The only thing he was over Attwood (or Joe/Courtney) is leadership.
 
May for me is out.... he's not had the impact i wanted, so i'd go with yarde. Nowell is a keeper for me, he's been excellent and he always beats the first man - his work rate is just fantastic.

right, well we'll see what Lancaster decides there, should be interesting. Anyhow, barring another long injury list there's no way Ashton should return to the white jersey.

Anyways, England really shaping up really nicely so far this year. Definitely reaping the benefits of a sound game plan and work. They're established enough this year that the backs are really coming in nicely, while the backs themselves have enough quality to add a dimension on their own momentum. Although they do have to correct those fkups on attack. We've seen it in Scotland quite a bit, and we sure saw it a ton here tonight, with Wales having no imagination whatsoever on attack just kicking the ball right back to England, some wiiiiide open spaces and sure enough, somehow, the score remained the same. Too many times now, it's clearly a problem. They need to work a little on those phases, watch tape and show the guys what they should've done. Surely they'll complete those with time, England has really developed in a way I can not say I saw coming if you look at who they were in 2012, and then 2013...the progression and results weren't very impressive.
Right now, England are looking fine for that RWC.

And that Burrell-foot-into-touch no-try was really nice. Who would have imagined England playing that way a year ago ?
 
...it's left me wondering where Parling fits in. I was worried that the lineout would be worse without him, and maybe it is ever so slightly, but I think it's a price worth paying for those two

England's lineout percentage was, if I recall correctly, 77% last Six Nations. It was quoted at 91% this afternoon. Parling's reputation for being a lineout general seems misplaced in my view. Tom Youngs' stats in the premiership haven't taken a dive when he's been injured either, so it can't be pinned on him.

Personally, if Lawes plays 80 and calls the lineout, I'd stick with Attwood on the bench. If we just want a lock to smash people for 20 minutes at the end Attwood's more suited to it than Parling.

As you say, the dark days of Botha are gone...
 
Top