[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs Argentina in Hamilton (07/09/2013)

[psychic duck]

Here's the Argentinian team:

Martin Hernandez, Gonzalo Camacho, Marcelo Bosch, Santiago Fernández, Horacio Agulla, Nicolás Sánchez, Martín Landajo; Juan Manuel Leguizamón, Pablo Matera, Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (c), Julio Farías Cabello, Manuel Carizza, Juan Figallo, Eusebio Guiñazú ,Marcos Ayerza. Reserves: Agustín Creevy, Nahuel Lobo, Juan Pablo Orlandi, Mariano Galarza, Benjamin Macome, Tomás Cubelli, , Felipe Contepomi, Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino.

4 changes to the team according to stuff - Lobbe in for Senatore, Carizza for Galarza, Juan Martin Hernandez replaces Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, and Santiago Fernandez for Contepomi.

That backline won't be threatening the All Blacks too much. Don't know why Fernandez is back he was poor in his cameo vs South Africa specifically in the passing department he is not nearly as good as Contepomi. The back three is possibly the bluntest one in the attacking sense that could be picked as well. Farias Cabello at lock also weakens the scrum, they are missing Albacete badly.

 

[ABs2011]

Crotty has been named to play for Canterbury in the ITM cup on Thursday night so looks like he is out of contention for Saturday barring further injury. Can only infer that Carter and Saili are good to go.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think Argentina will be in for a good beating here, maybe even as bad as what happened in SA.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Argentina was my 2nd team last year. This time I hope NZ grind Arg into a bloody mess before they have to face the Aussies... I suppose familiarity breeds contempt sometimes?

Edit. I am undecided whether to adopt Ireland or France as my 2nd team.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think Argentina will be in for a good beating here, maybe even as bad as what happened in SA.

Nah, Argentina's kryptonite is vuvuzelas and altitude...

 

[Big Ewis]

yeh no way they're taking another 70pts. But it most, most probably won't be as tight as last year's fixture. But Lobbe's back for this one. In fact he's back....row.
(meheheh)
As it's been said here, obviously the Pumas aren't even close skill-wise and that'll be the difference (*should* be the difference). Argentina (probably) can't make up for that and beat NZ with their forwards and out-tough them. They also (likely) won't be able to contain NZ for a whole 80min, even if they have a good first half. Tries will fall for NZ in the 2nd half.
It would really take an exploit...

Argentina's only hope is that anyways: defense and at least some pressure on attack, but forward play the rest of the way.
The backs are there too and who knows, a counter attack here, some ingenious work from Hernandez...but as long as they put pressure on the AB's even if it doesn't put a bunch of points on the scoreboard....
but I mean they can't run n gun with NZ, especially not with the Blacks at home. They'll have to make it a painful, grueling 80min of containing the Blacks at all costs but responding themselves with smt of their own to at least delay the AB's attack and divert the attention from their own 22. Even if they don't actually score tries per se.

An interesting article here:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,,3821_8902445,00.html

"We can't defend for 80min".

They've got to somehow change the momentum of the game, or set it from the get go: 'we are not here to be subjected to your attack, we will attack ourselves'.
The AB's are like sharks, they taste blood and feel the animal's wounded and are relentless. If Argentina can manage to give the Blacks smt to chew on themselves and contain the demolition on their side of the field, who knows.

 

[Aspry]

Hmm.. I would move Hernandez to another position and let Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino play from the start, he's one of our few players who can break a couple of tackles and settle for a good run.

 

[djwizard84]

I just know that I will sit back, give all my support to the Pumas till last minute and if I see a horrible score, I'll start to shout on everything!

 

[Jaguares]

Hmm.. I would move Hernandez to another position and let Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino play from the start, he's one of our few players who can break a couple of tackles and settle for a good run.

Yeah but Gonzalez Amorosino doesn't have good defense , which is almost suicide to face the ABs in NZ with a last man who can't defend.

Cheers

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah but Gonzalez Amorosino doesn't have good defense , which is almost suicide to face the ABs in NZ with a last man who can't defend.

Cheers

You are oversimplifying the defence. In your mind whether a player can defend is a yes/no answer. It's not that simple.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Nah, Argentina's kryptonite is vuvuzelas and altitude...

Their football team loses consistently when playing Bolivia away (albeit at 4.000m altitude), including a 6-1 loss to a team that finished bottom in the WC qualifiers. It is a known fact in South America that the Argentines (at least the footballers) suffer the most from altitude.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Their football team loses consistently when playing Bolivia away (albeit at 4.000m altitude), including a 6-1 loss to a team that finished bottom in the WC qualifiers. It is a known fact in South America that the Argentines (at least the footballers) suffer the most from altitude.

I know! That 6-1 drubbing was in Bolivia at 3600 metres above sea-level.

But why doesn't the argies use their mountain areas to train? How difficult would it be to have a high performance centre in the Andes?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

NZ and Aus teams have through Superrugby worked out how to handle the change in altitude. That said it is still a massive advantage for SA sides used to it. In school I ran 400m hurdles for Western province and the national championships were always somewhere around Jo'Burg and the less serious WP athletes (who didn't fly out and followed acclimation processes- most of us) would always do terrible. I never made the finals but in Cape Town on a windy and wet day I came pretty damn close to beating LJ van Zyl who is a world class 400m hurdler (admittedly this was early pre-season).

 

[Jaguares]

You are oversimplifying the defence. In your mind whether a player can defend is a yes/no answer. It's not that simple.

It's not that simple but if you are an inferior team, it's likely that you are going to defend more times than you could attack, then you have to prepare a defense before everything. Why are you going to have a good attack if you are going to defend the whole game?

You speak from the perspective of a good team that cares about attacking. But viewed from the perspective of a poor team have to defend the whole game.


For example: Japan against SA, the Japanese can't simply put their best attackers, they have to think first about the defense if they know they are going to defend the whole game.


On Saturday, Argentina will enter the field to defend themselves, they will not have possession.

Cheers

 

[Jaguares]

I know! That 6-1 drubbing was in Bolivia at 3600 metres above sea-level.

But why doesn't the argies use their mountain areas to train? How difficult would it be to have a high performance centre in the Andes?

Well, they don't even have a high performance centre in Buenos Aires, and you want that they to have one in the Andes?

They train at a high performance centre in USA:

http://www.athletesperformance.com/...ng-for-world-cup-at-athletes-performance.html

The problem with them is that the training centers in Argentina is designed for footballers and football compared to rugby carries very little training.


A professional football player don't develops even the upper boddy: chest, shoulders, back, etc.. Then they do not have good physical trainers for a sport as demanding as rugby.

Cheers

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, they don't even have a high performance centre in Buenos Aires, and you want that they to have one in the Andes?

They train at a high performance centre in USA:

http://www.athletesperformance.com/...ng-for-world-cup-at-athletes-performance.html

The problem with them is that the training centers in Argentina is designed for footballers and football compared to rugby carries very little training.


A professional football player don't develops even the upper boddy: chest, shoulders, back, etc.. Then they do not have good physical trainers for a sport as demanding as rugby.

Cheers

2 questions.

1. A High Performance Centre is a facility, can't they develop a programme at the facility for a specific sports type??

2. Why are you ending every post with a regards or cheers??

 

[ZeFrenchy]

2 questions.

1. A High Performance Centre is a facility, can't they develop a programme at the facility for a specific sports type??

2. Why are you ending every post with a regards or cheers??

Hein, I don't mean to disappoint you, but I don't think that's the real Conrad Smith.

 

[Jaguares]

2 questions.

1. A High Performance Centre is a facility, can't they develop a programme at the facility for a specific sports type??

2. Why are you ending every post with a regards or cheers??

1. Not all sports have the same cost, you can't compare training a golfer with a american football player, not all physical trainers are skilled in all sports. Rugby is one of the toughest sports, not everyone can prepare a professional rugby team. The answer is that they have to travel to the USA to obtain a high-level preparation.

2. Education and respect perhaps, I don't know

Cheers!!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[TRF_heineken]

1. Not all sports have the same cost, you can't compare training a golfer with a american football player, not all physical trainers are skilled in all sports. Rugby is one of the toughest sports, not everyone can prepare a professional rugby team. The answer is that they have to travel to the USA to obtain a high-level preparation.

But that still doesn't add to the conclusion. A High Performance Centre is there to assist sports stars, and to get them in peak condition. the facility can surely be modified to aid any sports-code. A basic HPC will work quite effectively with just a gym, a medical room and locker rooms, and any sports-code will benefit from it.

 

[psychic duck]

It's not that simple but if you are an inferior team, it's likely that you are going to defend more times than you could attack, then you have to prepare a defense before everything. Why are you going to have a good attack if you are going to defend the whole game?

You speak from the perspective of a good team that cares about attacking. But viewed from the perspective of a poor team have to defend the whole game.


For example: Japan against SA, the Japanese can't simply put their best attackers, they have to think first about the defense if they know they are going to defend the whole game.


On Saturday, Argentina will enter the field to defend themselves, they will not have possession.

Cheers

And what makes you think Argentina will have no ball? What a negative attitude that is. They might as well not bother playing this game if they come in with an attitude of defeatist tactics.

This is Argentina not Namibia FFS. A side who has had success and nearly beat but choked vs SA last week, where they had plenty of ball as well.

Oh and by the way, I know that Eddie Jones in charge of Japan would never go into the game vs SA in the RWC with those tactics.