2013 British and Irish Lions

[Big Ewis]

Gutting about Pocock, but we're actually looking OK, there are a few young players coming through and if we can get a backline with Ginea, Cooper, Beale & JOC in it, we will be competitive. And I know we're only 3 rounds into the S15, but Brumbies are top and looking good, the Reds are also looking fairly competitive. I would still say the Lions are slight favourites, however.

good...good news.

Damn, that is a serious injury. That's over five years .*

I think you underestimate Australia.

My bad, my bad I meant 37 months.*
I hope I am underestimating them !!...

Haha, thought that myself.
As you say, Pocock missing is a big blow, but the Aussies have great depth at 7 so it'll just be a chance for one of the new guys (or Smith) to step up to the plate.

right well, the Wallabies still have a bad record historically against the Lions, and I know this is page 33 of the thread so I'm sure there's been mention of the problems at the scrum here for AUS...they got annihilated in France, looked O.....K in Twickenham somehow (?!?) and now we're talking a fusion team that hand-picks the very best forwards out of 4 major forward nations to construct the most powerful scrummaging unit available in the B-Isles !!.......yikes. I mean if the Wallabies are to better their record against the Lions, I really wouldn't pick this 2013 tour is what I'm saying.

For me (and I'm a Wallaby enthusiast) if they get one, it's good. At home or not, on paper the two teams are simply different in caliber. Australia will have to use all the SH style running they have in store, coz the "still" game is for the Lions to dominate (rucks, scrum, penalties...).

And about Pocock, he's still a leading figure for the team, a huge push psychologically to have, and his defense and turn-over abilities in the rucks alone are like game-winners per se...but hopefully they're deep enough as you all claim...

 

[Zed]

good...good news.



My bad, my bad I meant 37 months.*
I hope I am underestimating them !!...




right well, the Wallabies still have a bad record historically against the Lions, and I know this is page 33 of the thread so I'm sure there's been mention of the problems at the scrum here for AUS...they got annihilated in France, looked O.....K in Twickenham somehow (?!?) and now we're talking a fusion team that hand-picks the very best forwards out of 4 major forward nations to construct the most powerful scrummaging unit available in the B-Isles !!.......yikes. I mean if the Wallabies are to better their record against the Lions, I really wouldn't pick this 2013 tour is what I'm saying.

For me (and I'm a Wallaby enthusiast) if they get one, it's good. At home or not, on paper the two teams are simply different in caliber. Australia will have to use all the SH style running they have in store, coz the "still" game is for the Lions to dominate (rucks, scrum, penalties...).

And about Pocock, he's still a leading figure for the team, a huge push psychologically to have, and his defense and turn-over abilities in the rucks alone are like game-winners per se...but hopefully they're deep enough as you all claim...

Don't forget we beat the Lions last time they were here

And as for the loss against France - don't read too much into it. End of a long season for the Wallabies, lots of injuries etc etc not making excuses, we lost fair & square, but deducing they are are lacking in calibre because of that loss is a tad naive! And don't forget it was only a couple of years ago we pumped the French at home by 50 points. - my point being some of the results from these 'friendlies' are meaningless in the big scheme of things.

 

[Ospreylian]

See it is at this point you pass from the land of absurd to the land of talking absolute Tom Kite.


Healy has never been carded or cited before this incident. Ever. Consider that when you talk about calm temperament. Also consider that Healy's intent was to stop Cole from blocking Murray getting the ball.

I'm sorry but I don't see it as absurd to question a player's temperament even after one incident. I did the same with Bradley Davies' tip tackle in the Ireland match last year. If someone is willing to tip tackle a player like that off the ball then what's to say they won't do it again at some point. It suggests to me that someone is a massive liability. I think some people seem to be trying to justify what Healy did, but his ban was far too short for an offence of that nature. He should have missed the rest of the tournament at least. Anything that shows a player is attempting to cause bodily harm should receive a very long ban tbh. If something like that happened outside of a rugby match, the offender would be in court for assault. I don't see why just because it happens during a rugby match we should all forget it happened and brush it under the carpet. Yes rugby is a physical sport, but players don't go into a career expecting to be stamped on or speared into the ground purposefully.

If Cole had broken/dislocated his leg or ankle during this incident I'm sure certain people's opinions would be a lot different. Just because the damage wasn't that bad, does not mean the intent by Healy disappears. If there is one thing in the game I can't stand it's players who go out of their way to harm people. It's the lowest form of ill-discipline in rugby.

It's why I can never see Tana Umaga or Kevin Mealamu in the same light again, for the spear tackle they carried out together on Brian O'Driscoll. They almost ended that guys' career, someone who is a gem in the rugby world and has never set a foot wrong in terms of discipline. And the fact they both got away with doing something so awful is the thing that is absurd. Apparently O'Driscoll has bumped into Umaga since the incident and he has never apologised for what he did, which in my opinion is disgraceful really. Shows what a player Umaga is.

 

[Zed]

I'm sorry but I don't see it as absurd to question a player's temperament even after one incident. I did the same with Bradley Davies' tip tackle in the Ireland match last year. If someone is willing to tip tackle a player like that off the ball then what's to say they won't do it again at some point. It suggests to me that someone is a massive liability. I think some people seem to be trying to justify what Healy did, but his ban was far too short for an offence of that nature. He should have missed the rest of the tournament at least. Anything that shows a player is attempting to cause bodily harm should receive a very long ban tbh. If something like that happened outside of a rugby match, the offender would be in court for assault. I don't see why just because it happens during a rugby match we should all forget it happened and brush it under the carpet. Yes rugby is a physical sport, but players don't go into a career expecting to be stamped on or speared into the ground purposefully.

If Cole had broken/dislocated his leg or ankle during this incident I'm sure certain people's opinions would be a lot different. Just because the damage wasn't that bad, does not mean the intent by Healy disappears. If there is one thing in the game I can't stand it's players who go out of their way to harm people. It's the lowest form of ill-discipline in rugby.

It's why I can never see Tana Umaga or Kevin Mealamu in the same light again, for the spear tackle they carried out together on Brian O'Driscoll. They almost ended that guys' career, someone who is a gem in the rugby world and has never set a foot wrong in terms of discipline. And the fact they both got away with doing something so awful is the thing that is absurd. Apparently O'Driscoll has bumped into Umaga since the incident and he has never apologised for what he did, which in my opinion is disgraceful really. Shows what a player Umaga is.

Yup I agree with you 100%. Healy's stamp was malicious and could have caused a lot of damage. A team mate had a career ending injury from a similar thing. It doesn't take much force to break a leg and what prompted Healy's stamp was an illegal, but non violent act. The fact that Cole was not seriously injured was down to luck and it's obvious Healy's short ban was because of the minimal damage done, which shouldn't be the case. It's reasonable to assume a 120KG prop stamping on someones leg is going to cause a pretty bad injury and his ban should have reflected this. Ditto Umaga/Mealamu's tackle, Kiwis still prattle on trying to defend it, but again it was malicious or at the very least done with little thought to the tackled player's well being.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd be interested to know what position you 'strayans think AAC/JOC/Beale/Barnes are gonna be used in?

Would anyone agree that T.Youngs has nailed himself a plane ticket?

 

[Aristodemus]

He's great at what he does, he's powerful and quick, but he is still a limited player, especially in terms of distribution. Very similar to Roberts in that regard. The try against NZ was more of an exception, and tbh it wasn't the most difficult of passes, just a simple draw and give that every professional player should be able to do (even if plenty screw it up). What he did that others couldn't was bust the line first up, and I agree very few players in the world have the ability to do that. He often doesn't even look to pass the ball, and this has been a criticism of his play all along.

At the moment, I'd probably have him starting because he's currently the best of a number who have similar flaws (Robert and DJ). I'd look to start him alongside BOD, even though I think BOD isn't in great form atm.

I think comparing Tuilagi to Roberts does not do justice to Manu. He is a much better player and for the people highlighting his performance against NZ, it is true, he virtually created or scored all our tries. The Barritt try was superb centre play and I don't understand why people compare him to brainless Forrest Gump type players such as Tindall, Roberts or Cuthbert. I will add though that he wouldn't be in my world XV and the only NH back that should be considered is Fofana.

 

[Zed]

I'd be interested to know what position you 'strayans think AAC/JOC/Beale/Barnes are gonna be used in?

Would anyone agree that T.Youngs has nailed himself a plane ticket?

Beale 15
aac 13
joc wing but should be 12 imo
barnes won't make the xv

 

[Draggs]

Beale 15
aac 13
joc wing but should be 12 imo
barnes won't make the xv

Will be interesting, considering Beale is playing standoff and O'Connor fullback lately.

 

[nickdnz]

Yup I agree with you 100%. Healy's stamp was malicious and could have caused a lot of damage. A team mate had a career ending injury from a similar thing. It doesn't take much force to break a leg and what prompted Healy's stamp was an illegal, but non violent act. The fact that Cole was not seriously injured was down to luck and it's obvious Healy's short ban was because of the minimal damage done, which shouldn't be the case. It's reasonable to assume a 120KG prop stamping on someones leg is going to cause a pretty bad injury and his ban should have reflected this. Ditto Umaga/Mealamu's tackle, Kiwis still prattle on trying to defend it, but again it was malicious or at the very least done with little thought to the tackled player's well being.

Congrats, you are the 1,000th poster to bring up the Umaga/Mealamu/BOD incident .

In terms of Healy - I stopped liking him when he punched Richie McCaw's head while McCaw was on the ground last June. The incident went totally unnoticed by everyone it seemed - but it was as bad as anything I saw last year.

 

[Draggs]

Congrats, you are the 1,000th poster to bring up the Umaga/Mealamu/BOD incident .

What happened?

 

[dullonien]

I think comparing Tuilagi to Roberts does not do justice to Manu. He is a much better player and for the people highlighting his performance against NZ, it is true, he virtually created or scored all our tries. The Barritt try was superb centre play and I don't understand why people compare him to brainless Forrest Gump type players such as Tindall, Roberts or Cuthbert. I will add though that he wouldn't be in my world XV and the only NH back that should be considered is Fofana.

And that is a complete injustice to Roberts. He isn't in great form at the moment, but at his best he was just as good as Tuilagi is now. Roberts has still achieved more in his career so far. You only have to look at how influential his performances were for the Lions to see that. Roberts has stagnated though, and Tuilagi does have the potential to kick on from here and become an even better player. Whether that happens depends on both himself, and what type of game Leicester and England ask him to play imo.

I believe that there is/was a lot more to Roberts' game than just crashing it up the middle, but he is/was so effective at doing just that and with gainline success becoming crucial to success, that he was asked to play this way, and as such has never developed his distribution etc. Whilst Roberts' switch to centre has been an effective one, I think he would have developed into a better all round player had he remained in the back three.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm sorry but I don't see it as absurd to question a player's temperament even after one incident. I did the same with Bradley Davies' tip tackle in the Ireland match last year. If someone is willing to tip tackle a player like that off the ball then what's to say they won't do it again at some point. It suggests to me that someone is a massive liability. I think some people seem to be trying to justify what Healy did, but his ban was far too short for an offence of that nature. He should have missed the rest of the tournament at least. Anything that shows a player is attempting to cause bodily harm should receive a very long ban tbh. If something like that happened outside of a rugby match, the offender would be in court for assault. I don't see why just because it happens during a rugby match we should all forget it happened and brush it under the carpet. Yes rugby is a physical sport, but players don't go into a career expecting to be stamped on or speared into the ground purposefully.

If Cole had broken/dislocated his leg or ankle during this incident I'm sure certain people's opinions would be a lot different. Just because the damage wasn't that bad, does not mean the intent by Healy disappears. If there is one thing in the game I can't stand it's players who go out of their way to harm people. It's the lowest form of ill-discipline in rugby.

It's why I can never see Tana Umaga or Kevin Mealamu in the same light again, for the spear tackle they carried out together on Brian O'Driscoll. They almost ended that guys' career, someone who is a gem in the rugby world and has never set a foot wrong in terms of discipline. And the fact they both got away with doing something so awful is the thing that is absurd. Apparently O'Driscoll has bumped into Umaga since the incident and he has never apologised for what he did, which in my opinion is disgraceful really. Shows what a player Umaga is.

I honestly don't see what this debate is here. OK, Healy did the stamp, he got punished it might have been very lenient but he said he regrets it and it's done. If you were to say that one piece of ill discipline should stop a player getting a Lions tour then Tuilagi, Hartley, Warburton, Heaslip etc... should all be out of contention but there not. A player with discipline problems will never be as successful as Healy. Look at the likes of Caucau and Henson players with bags of talent but ill discipline had a severe negative effect on their careers.

Healy always strikes me as a tough and driven player, he lost his cool in one game but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is currently the strongest and form LH prop out of the Lions nations, this is a pointless argument.

Edit: I just want to say that I'd take O'Driscoll in any team on any day.

 

[irelandfan123]

Brian O'Driscoll. They almost ended that guys' career, someone who is a gem in the rugby world and has never set a foot wrong in terms of discipline. And the fact they both got away with doing something so awful is the thing that is absurd.

Almost right he seems to hate poor chris henry saw him start on him in ravenhill then he clocked him in the semi-final of the Celtic league

 

[Feicarsinn]

Congrats, you are the 1,000th poster to bring up the Umaga/Mealamu/BOD incident .

In terms of Healy - I stopped liking him when he punched Richie McCaw's head while McCaw was on the ground last June. The incident went totally unnoticed by everyone it seemed - but it was as bad as anything I saw last year.

Yeah, I remember that. Two nasty incidents, should cast doubts over his character if we're being all neutral and the like. That said, there was always this too, which was a rather nice thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3HvvvnlGQI

 

[Peat]

Almost right he seems to hate poor chris henry saw him start on him in ravenhill then he clocked him in the semi-final of the Celtic league

He's punched Trimble too.

 

[big ginger 8]

My head is going to explode.

And then Cian Healy will come into your houses and stamp on your heads until you die and he will only get jail time of 6 months. Except in Nicks case, with Nick he will punch him a lot but it will go unnoticed by everyone else. hahaha haha ha:boese0556kf:

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Apparently Jamie Roberts started taking his Medical final exams today. If that's not a reason for poor form I don't know what is, the man must be wrecked.

 

[jkUNCAcap]

Chris Henry and Trimble must have committed some very serious sins to have been hit by BOD... After all, BOD is God.

 

[dullonien]

Apparently Jamie Roberts started taking his Medical final exams today. If that's not a reason for poor form I don't know what is, the man must be wrecked.

Yeah I know. I don't understand how someone could possibly take exams like those (stupidly difficult) and play a 6 nations championship. How can he possibly find the time?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah I know. I don't understand how someone could possibly take exams like those (stupidly difficult) and play a 6 nations championship. How can he possibly find the time?

It's unreal. Hopefully he passes them and then goes on to rape on the Lions tour... He can even give the Aussie's medical aid for where he assaulted him... Is there anyone who's in contention to tour that has a Psychology degree?