2017 British & Irish Lions Squad Announcement

[General Melchett]

It does come across as a thing he setup from the beginning have Wales play a PI team in New Zealand at around the time his test team comes up.


i feel for the players, but it completely undermines the shirt.

There's no doubt in my mind that this has been planned from day one and was always on the cards. Just when the 'Shane Williams just happened to be on a plane on his way to Australia' couldnt' be topped. This really does take the biscuit. Hill over Jonny Gray is insane.

 

[munstermuffin]

That's my point. The 2 Gray brothers were in many people's original squads and are 3 hours away.
My point is this has nothing to do with geography or what not. It was planned from day 1. So it could've been agreed with national coaches to get guys over. For example Gats to EJ:
Play Hartley in test 1 but bring cover for 2 I'll take Dylan to NZ.

As I said it devalues the jersey and the meaning of it.

It's no coincidence Wales are in NZ. I know people say toots only midweek game but if injuries pile up like 12 years ago it back fires too

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

"First they came for the Scots, but I did not speak up, for I was not a Scot.
Then they came for Joe Launchberry and I was pure apoplectic, so I was."

 

[Turkpower]

Because how is the overall outcome of the test series overall relevant to the calling up of 4 players who are extremely unlikely to feature in any capacity in the tests? They are not going to play a significant role in the test games, so there is nothing they can do to justify their presence. Even if they get a chance and play well in one of the midweek games, they won't be proving that they deserved to be on the tour ahead of other players - just that they made the most of their chance when they got it. It in no way justifies absurd selection choices.

You're argument is purely based on assumption. My point is based on fact.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

You're argument is purely based on assumption. My point is based on fact.

You don't appear to have any point at all.

Do you think for a second that Gatland would have called up Dacy, Hill and Francis if he thought they would end up having to face the all-blacks? Gatland would probably rather play 80 minutes himself than let any of those three near the all-blacks right now. Everyone knows that the reason they are being brought in is to help reinforce the separation between mid-week and test sides, providing extra protection for his first choice 23.

So please me how any scenario at all, even a series victory, could possibly vindicate this decision in any way whatsoever when these players will have complete irrelevance to what happens in the tests. People would talk about it less, sure, but vindication means being proven to be correct. And yes, I just made an assumption that these players won't get a look-in to the test side, but sometimes we have to use our brains and make educated assumptions in sport.

 

[Every Time Ref]

If I was one of those Welsh players (apart from Gareth Davies, who is a legit choice) I'd be embarrassed to put on the shirt to be honest. Wouldn't that be a statement if one of them refused the call up.

I remember a classmate at school lost his socks so borrowed his older brothers 1st XV socks, the coach made him take them off and take some from lost property because "you have to earn the right to wear first team kit." If it goes for school 1st XV socks then it sure as hell goes for a Lions shirt.

 

[ncurd]

If I was one of those Welsh players (apart from Gareth Davies, who is a legit choice) I'd be embarrassed to put on the shirt to be honest. Wouldn't that be a statement if one of them refused the call up.

I remember a classmate at school lost his socks so borrowed his older brothers 1st XV socks, the coach made him take them off and take some from lost property because "you have to earn the right to wear first team kit." If it goes for school 1st XV socks then it sure as hell goes for a Lions shirt.

imagine if they ran on in their Welsh shirts instead

 

[Turkpower]

You don't appear to have any point at all.

Do you think for a second that Gatland would have called up Dacy, Hill and Francis if he thought they would end up having to face the all-blacks? Gatland would probably rather play 80 minutes himself than let any of those three near the all-blacks right now. Everyone knows that the reason they are being brought in is to help reinforce the separation between mid-week and test sides, providing extra protection for his first choice 23.

So please me how any scenario at all, even a series victory, could possibly vindicate this decision in any way whatsoever when these players will have complete irrelevance to what happens in the tests. People would talk about it less, sure, but vindication means being proven to be correct. And yes, I just made an assumption that these players won't get a look-in to the test side, but sometimes we have to use our brains and make educated assumptions in sport.

As you increase you're assumptions you're moving further away from the facts.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jordi Murphy throwing some shade

https://twitter.com/jordimurphy/status/876161808763166720

 

[Groundhog]

My god someone who isn't even intelligent enough to cover his bias isn't intelligent enough to outmaneuver the All Blacks

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jordi Murphy throwing some shade

https://twitter.com/jordimurphy/status/876161808763166720

Marler made a tweet likely about it, and he and Haskell have liked a number of tweets/Instagram memes about it.

It probably wouldn't be a bad thing if Gatland lost the dressing room, we might actually run a backs move if senior players run the sessions instead of howler

 

[General Melchett]

Does the head coach have to go through a tour debrief with the Lions committee after returning home?

He will have a lot of explaining to do if the ABs win the series as expected.

 

[Bluemoon]

Does the head coach have to go through a tour debrief with the Lions committee after returning home?

He will have a lot of explaining to do if the ABs win the series as expected.

Will he? I'm pretty sure most national teams struggle to beat the ABs, in quite an impressive number of attempts. I don't see him ever coaching the Lions again either way.

His first team won't include the at least two of the four welsh players that have been called up. Although I don't feel that they should have been called up, I don't see them having a massive impact on the outcome of the tests, unless there is a major injury crisis.

Perhaps there might be a review on the decision to call up players based on the reasoning of physical proximity to the team.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

As some people are pointing out, it happened last time as well, it's just that these cases have got a bit more extreme.

last time the strangest selection was probably Christian Wade. Personally I wouldn't have selected either Brad Barrit or Billy Twelvetrees, but at least they were in the favour English centres at the time and probably both had been hoping to gain lions selection. Same sort of thing with Tom Court - not an obvious choice but at least it was defensible.

I reckon those choices broke the barriers for call-ups for Gatland, making it feel easier to do again in the future and creating a bit of a slippery slope.

In terms of the dressing room, it's going to be extremely hard to keep everyone on side You've already got a total separation formed between midweek and test side so you'll get some players who already are going to feel like they're not in the camp they deserve to be in. Overall, it's going to be ok as long as the overall tour has a positive winning mentality going around, but once you start losing games, the dressing room is a fickle thing and can turn quickly. The biggest threat is probably the attitude of players who are not considered as test side players AND who are close for club/personal reasons to aggrieved players who haven't been selected. So the likes of Daly and Haskell in particular aren't being seen as test players and will be looking at the call-ups and feeling ****** off for their club-mate Joe Launchbury.

Really in so many ways I think these call-ups were a terrrrrrible play from Gatland. I think he misjudged this, massively.

 

[General Melchett]

I think he's just hedging his bets from his own personal perspective. Win the series and he's a hero, lose and he'll return to a stable Wales dressing room having rewarded many of the players with marginal calls going their way and late call ups.

The downside is that he'll have quite a few fired up players from the other home nations with a point to prove at next year's 6N.

 

[Reiser99]

For me if he said these are the players I've chosen end of discussion then fine. I disagree, but it's his choice. It's the fact that he's come up with such a poor excuse. Oh well the reason is geography, even though we planned this from the start and could have got the players released at the start of the week instead. It's the excuse of weak man who knows what he's doing is wrong and can't give an honest reason, even if it's as simple as I ****** up.

 

[Groundhog]

On a lighter note, ever since it was announced he was getting an OBE, everyone has been calling Rory Best sir, and Marler won't let him carry his own bags.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

On a lighter note, ever since it was announced he was getting an OBE, everyone has been calling Rory Best sir, and Marler won't let him carry his own bags.

That's brilliant. Why is he getting an OBE, by the way?
Certainly isn't for services to good line out throwing amiright?! heheheheheheh......ergh

 

[curtbob7]

Gatland has created a complete farce. Only one of replacements is deserving of the call. Total Bias.

Adding Hartley, Nel, Healy/Genge, Launch/Gray, Robshaw/ Barclay wouldlve really pushed standards and not just been midweek cannon- fodder. Care or Davies is a close one. Russell deserves his place on seasons form but Ford in Argentina-wow.

He's devalued the shirt massively. Handing out lion caps to Welsh 4th stringers is laughable.

 

[MikeTheNative]

You guys think this mid week lions team is weak, wait until you see the Wales team for Friday! I feel I might make the replacements at this rate. Fair enough with the Gareth Davies selection, but the other 3 will not strengthen the Lions and seriously weaken a very depleted Wales team as it is.