2013 British and Irish Lions

[big ginger 8]

Is Odriscoll really the best outside centre the home nations can put forward?
AAC would run rings around him.

I'll be in the minority, but I'd prefer Hartley over Best. Hartley is a knob and I can't stand him, but he'd get right stuck into the Wallabies.

Nah who'd you have instead?

 

[SelimNiai]

Oh come off it, you as good as said it. Your opinion is not just different to mine, it's different to everyone who saw the game

 

[Draggs]

Nah who'd you have instead?

Not sure, I just think it is surprising that we don't have any real outstanding outside centre candidates.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

All he did, individually, in the Wales game was score a try by picking up and falling over the line and catch a very good pass from Sexton and put Zebo in with a pass that should never have got past any decent defence and Wales did not provide that on that day! He did little really of note in the match against England.

Make no mistake, I think he has been arguably the greatest centre I have seen for Ireland (the only competion being Mike Gibson) and still has something to offer the Irish side by way of experience BUT I think we have to look at the spped in the Australian back line and think.....can he keep up and my answer would be no but he would try valiantly as is his nature amply demonstrated when he would not go off against England.

For me Barritt has to be there for his defensive organisation ability and I would go with 36/Tuilagi.......and please do not have me down as an English "arrogant" supporter, I just think they would do the job better and more cohesively.

By all means have BOD on tour and even make him Captain but on basis that the Test captain would come from those selected and, if he is selected because the coaches think there is no other option, then fine and I look forward to being humbled by his performances and will support him and the other 14 on the pitch!

I have a problem with everything in bold.

Obviously you are underrating BOD's performance against Wales. He was magnificent. We probably would've lost without him. Once again he was the difference between a win and a loss for us.

Saying he's "arguably the best centre you've ever seen for Ireland" is a hilarious understatement. He is the greatest rugby talent this country has ever produced by such a distance that it is beyond belief. The fact that he's still saving our asses at his age is incredible.

36 won't tour. One good game against Scotland does not make an average centre a Lion.

 

[McTallshort]

Lydiate: Agree injured not sure he can return to form on time
Ferris: As above
O'Brien: would like to see him at 8
Robshaw: Think he make the test side on current form
Croft: Sorry massive fan....
Wood: can play anywhere in the backrow but doesnt stand out anywhere
Scottish:Like Rennie....

 

[j'nuh]

Saying he's "arguably the best centre you've ever seen for Ireland" is a hilarious understatement. He is the greatest rugby talent this country has ever produced by such a distance that it is beyond belief. The fact that he's still saving our asses at his age is incredible.

Paul O'Connell? Maybe not at BOD's ability, but he wasn't that far behind. He was imo one of the best modern locks, very underrated.

36 won't tour. One good game against Scotland does not make an average centre a Lion.

How many times have you seen him play this season? What knowledge of Twelvetrees' form have you got to say he is "average"?

 

[Tony Manx]

Paul O'Connoll.............he would be in my all time teams..........he was brilliant and what a leader!

I really do hope that he can come back soon and play to a similar standard, which is so so difficult after the time out and injuries he has had to deal with.

If he is unable to do that, then i sincerly hope he takes a very well earned retiremet to leave us with all those marvellous memories of a beliigerent, rugby wise, and super player.

Ireland were lucky to have him and BOD......................

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Twelvetrees isn't "average".
He's a bloody good centre at premiership level, and is taking to international rugby well.
He's played about 120mins of test rugby so far - lets not make rash decisions based on that.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Twelvetrees isn't "average".
He's a bloody good centre at premiership level, and is taking to international rugby well.
He's played about 120mins of test rugby so far - lets not make rash decisions based on that.

I agree, he's very good, starting Lions? Don't think so. Maybe midweek test matches though.

 

[McTallshort]

I agree, he's very good, starting Lions? Don't think so. Maybe midweek test matches though.

That would be fine I bet he would be happy just to be there and the experiance would do him the world of good, gutted when he left Tigers think he should have started more games earlier but then I thought that of Ford and Youngs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree, he's very good, starting Lions? Don't think so. Maybe midweek test matches though.

I'm not saying he should be on the Lions, just that he's not "average".

 

[coonor]

I think BOD should be starting. Remember this tour comprise of many players who have never experienced a Lions tour before. They need some guidance, it's another level to anything the majority of them have experienced before. The young talent that will be the core of this team, such as Healy, Robshaw, Cole, Youngs, Sexton etc will need someone to turn to at times of difficulty and trust me they will occur. In my opinion BOD is the man for this job.

However there is one reason why I think BOD should tour as captain. He will be the most motivated player in the squad, where as every other player will be simply happy to make the squad and as individuals will work towards making the 1st IV, BOD wants to win a tour to an extent where he would rather not go if he new the Lions would win. Imagine the final test, with both the Lions and Australia having won the a previous game each... You can bet your house that when the big decision or piece of magic is needed, BOD will be the one rising to the call. For me BOD offers something that no one within the home nations can even comprehend.

 

[Peat]

To answer a few things by player, starting with the most ridiculous...

Rhys Priestland... have you no shame Mr Williams?! This a serious thread for serious people and... ok, I'll stop, I started this by mentioning Hask. Being serious, his collapse in form has been so profound I wouldn't trust him at all, but in the World Cup he looked like the obvious candidate. Weird how quickly it changed - if he can refind that form, he'd have a very good shout for 2017.

The Bodfather - anyone who says he's too slow, has lost it, I don't think they've been watching him closely enough. I will admit, I am still scarred by the events of the last HEC final; but rightly so. That Ulster defence was a very good one, same guys were the best in this year's HEC group stages, and O'Driscoll virtually walked out of the operating theatre and tore them to shreds. He's no longer lightening quick, but he's still plenty quick for a centre, and has more experience and nous at reading the game defensively than any other outside-centre in the world. I'd rather have that nous than the pace - Jiffy jnr is the fastest 13 available, and he still couldn't get to O'Driscoll in time to prevent Zebo's try against Wales.

What I would add/repeat - I am a great believer in the mental side of rugby, that games at the top level are won and lost in the top 4 inches. I cannot imagine a more psychotic competitor, or a man more driven to succeed while he has the chance. I don't see how you wouldn't pick him. If something happened to him, I'd be very happy with either of Davies or Tuilagi for all their faults, but to me O'Driscoll is still a great player and a great leader. Hence me picking him.

Ryan Jones and the Blindside Conundrum - That should be the name of a band! I'd be happy if Jones toured. I admire his skill, I admire his leadership. However, I ran out of slots before I got to him, and I feel age has got him just a little too much. He'd be going as a blindside/lock in a pinch; can't cover 8 really by now. It's not bad versatility, but it's not uncommon either, and versatility is a desired trait amongst non-nailed on players. And I don't think Jones is nailed on for the test team, not by any stretch of the imagination. I'd take Robshaw, Wood, Brown and O'Brien all ahead of him - and that's assuming none of Ferris, Croft or Lydiate return in time. Blindside is the one position we're best off in and in Australia I want pace. He might make it, but I really don't see how anyone can think he's at the sort of certainty levels to make it that a captain needs to be. I also feel that the bookies, as ever, have it spot on and it will either be Robshaw or O'Driscoll captaining.

Inside Centre - Any inside centre who's strong, quick and can distribute like a 10 is automatically more than average. Billy Twelvetrees ticks those boxes. I'm not sure he's a Lion starter yet, but I'd take him on tour and find out. Roberts at his best is world class, ok we haven't seen it in a while, but take him on the tour and find out. Tuilagi could be world class there, he's doing some beautiful things there, but it hasn't quite happened for him at 12 so take him... right now, I feel we've got a lot of good 12 options, none of them are really standing out, but I'm confident something will emerge.

And, given that he offers 10 cover and is one of our few distributing options (albeit something Gatland isn't that big on), I'd be surprised if Twelvetrees didn't go. And I'd be surprised if Barritt did, he might be an excellent defender but he offers very little defensive punch.

 

[Zed]

I think BOD should be starting. Remember this tour comprise of many players who have never experienced a Lions tour before. They need some guidance, it's another level to anything the majority of them have experienced before. The young talent that will be the core of this team, such as Healy, Robshaw, Cole, Youngs, Sexton etc will need someone to turn to at times of difficulty and trust me they will occur. In my opinion BOD is the man for this job.

However there is one reason why I think BOD should tour as captain. He will be the most motivated player in the squad, where as every other player will be simply happy to make the squad and as individuals will work towards making the 1st IV, BOD wants to win a tour to an extent where he would rather not go if he new the Lions would win. Imagine the final test, with both the Lions and Australia having won the a previous game each... You can bet your house that when the big decision or piece of magic is needed, BOD will be the one rising to the call. For me BOD offers something that no one within the home nations can even comprehend.

Definitely think BOD should go, not as captain though. He's injury prone which is understandable at his age and I can't imagine him starting and finishing all 3 Lions tests. You need someone that will be on the pitch when the whistle blows.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I can't see Robshaw being captain of the Lions. He's not really a guaranteed starter by people's general opinions, and he's way too inexperienced.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Meh, Captains both his club and country, through some cup finals with Quins too - I'd say that's experience enough.
Not saying he should be captain, but that's because he's not guaranteed a place (yet?) - not because lack of experience.

 

[Zed]

To answer a few things by player, starting with the most ridiculous...

Rhys Priestland... have you no shame Mr Williams?! This a serious thread for serious people and... ok, I'll stop, I started this by mentioning Hask. Being serious, his collapse in form has been so profound I wouldn't trust him at all, but in the World Cup he looked like the obvious candidate. Weird how quickly it changed - if he can refind that form, he'd have a very good shout for 2017.

The Bodfather - anyone who says he's too slow, has lost it, I don't think they've been watching him closely enough. I will admit, I am still scarred by the events of the last HEC final; but rightly so. That Ulster defence was a very good one, same guys were the best in this year's HEC group stages, and O'Driscoll virtually walked out of the operating theatre and tore them to shreds. He's no longer lightening quick, but he's still plenty quick for a centre, and has more experience and nous at reading the game defensively than any other outside-centre in the world. I'd rather have that nous than the pace - Jiffy jnr is the fastest 13 available, and he still couldn't get to O'Driscoll in time to prevent Zebo's try against Wales.

What I would add/repeat - I am a great believer in the mental side of rugby, that games at the top level are won and lost in the top 4 inches. I cannot imagine a more psychotic competitor, or a man more driven to succeed while he has the chance. I don't see how you wouldn't pick him. If something happened to him, I'd be very happy with either of Davies or Tuilagi for all their faults, but to me O'Driscoll is still a great player and a great leader. Hence me picking him.

Ryan Jones and the Blindside Conundrum - That should be the name of a band! I'd be happy if Jones toured. I admire his skill, I admire his leadership. However, I ran out of slots before I got to him, and I feel age has got him just a little too much. He'd be going as a blindside/lock in a pinch; can't cover 8 really by now. It's not bad versatility, but it's not uncommon either, and versatility is a desired trait amongst non-nailed on players. And I don't think Jones is nailed on for the test team, not by any stretch of the imagination. I'd take Robshaw, Wood, Brown and O'Brien all ahead of him - and that's assuming none of Ferris, Croft or Lydiate return in time. Blindside is the one position we're best off in and in Australia I want pace. He might make it, but I really don't see how anyone can think he's at the sort of certainty levels to make it that a captain needs to be. I also feel that the bookies, as ever, have it spot on and it will either be Robshaw or O'Driscoll captaining.

Inside Centre - Any inside centre who's strong, quick and can distribute like a 10 is automatically more than average. Billy Twelvetrees ticks those boxes. I'm not sure he's a Lion starter yet, but I'd take him on tour and find out. Roberts at his best is world class, ok we haven't seen it in a while, but take him on the tour and find out. Tuilagi could be world class there, he's doing some beautiful things there, but it hasn't quite happened for him at 12 so take him... right now, I feel we've got a lot of good 12 options, none of them are really standing out, but I'm confident something will emerge.

And, given that he offers 10 cover and is one of our few distributing options (albeit something Gatland isn't that big on), I'd be surprised if Twelvetrees didn't go. And I'd be surprised if Barritt did, he might be an excellent defender but he offers very little defensive punch.

How many centres do they take - 4? If so I'd pick:
Tuilagi & BOD as starters (although they're both 13s, either player could play 12)
Jamie Roberts
Barrit

I've chosen Barrit as TT hasn't done enough yet. If he continues to shine throughout the 6N then obviously he'd replace BB.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

My pick for the backline:

9 Youngs (ENG)
10 Farrell (ENG)
11 North (WAL)
12 Roberts (WAL)
13 O'Driscoll (IRE)
14 Maitland (SCO)
15 Halfpenny (WAL)

20 Care (ENG)
21 Sexton (IRE)
22 Kearney (IRE)

With other real options being Hogg, Visser, Zebo, Tuilagi, Flood, Wilkinson, at least to me.

 

[coonor]

Definitely think BOD should go, not as captain though. He's injury prone which is understandable at his age and I can't imagine him starting and finishing all 3 Lions tests. You need someone that will be on the pitch when the whistle blows.

I agree that you want to pick fit players, but in modern rugby the likelihood of injury mean that for any player in the squad, the chances of getting injured before the first test are very high.

 

[Peat]

I can't see Robshaw being captain of the Lions. He's not really a guaranteed starter by people's general opinions, and he's way too inexperienced.

He's had a hell of a lot more experience than Johnson did prior to South Africa. Pick presence, not experience.

As for guaranteed starter - there are none, there's some names a way ahead of the pack but even they can be hauled in, Robshaw's current form would not disgrace the test jersey and that's good enough for a captain.

Zed - We took five last time. Twelvetrees might be around Barritt now, but he has a higher ceiling imo so I'd take him and gamble. As for BOD's injury proneness - intensity of the tests means just about everyone looks vulnerable to not making all three.