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2013 British and Irish Lions

Wouldnt have any of the scottish forwards after that or the Tonga game, they do not man up as a pack of forwards and were given a real slap by a younger less experienced England pack they need to sort it because the Italians are up next and they are not known for weak forward performances.
 
Wouldnt have any of the scottish forwards after that or the Tonga game, they do not man up as a pack of forwards and were given a real slap by a younger less experienced England pack they need to sort it because the Italians are up next and they are not known for weak forward performances.

That England performance was hardly due to especially English dominance in the pack. In fact neither the Tonga or England game was really at fault of the Scottish pack. England were hardly pushing them backwards at every scrum and going on massive mauls. I would say England's backs were the difference actually, the Scottish forwards were hardly given "a real slap".

Also in that Tonga match, Scotland had like 70% possession, and were pushing for a penalty try in the last minute from a scrum going forward. That wasn't the forwards fault, it was the backs fault for keeping dropping the ball and not being clinical enough, whilst Tonga took their opportunities. Sounds like you didn't even watch that Tonga game as it certainly wasn't the Scottish pack being dominated.
 
My Lions team after the 1st weekend of the 6 nations;

1 Healy / Jenkins
2 Best
3 Cole / Jones
4 Ryan / Launchbury
5 Parling / Gray
6 Wood / POM
7 Brown / Robshaw
8 Heaslip / SOB

9 Murray / Youngs
10 Farrel / Sexton
12 Barritt / 36
13 BOD / Davies

11 Zebo / Maitland
15 Hogg / Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert / Ashton

I know injuries will take its toll & this is only my opinion after this weekend matches.

How could you put Jenkins name there, he wasn't that great and has so little game time.
Although I didn't see all of the ENG-SCO match, I haven't heard many people say how good Gray played and infact people are now saying he isn't that great of a player.
You can't possibly put Davies in there, like I said, did you see the match? It was probably his worst ever performance.
Zebo is a good player, but everyone is focusing on his flick with the boot from Heaslip - let's be honest, it was a bit of a fluke. Apart from that and being on the receiving end of great work for a try - he didn't really do anything special.
Cuthbert was rubbish, yeah he scored a try, but for someone his size his defense is rubbish.
"36" played well but he isn't going to start for the Lions, it was his first cap wasnt it?
 
Rewind 4 years and remember how all and sundry would profess that Keith Earles was BODs second coming.
 
That England performance was hardly due to especially English dominance in the pack. In fact neither the Tonga or England game was really at fault of the Scottish pack. England were hardly pushing them backwards at every scrum and going on massive mauls. I would say England's backs were the difference actually, the Scottish forwards were hardly given "a real slap".

Also in that Tonga match, Scotland had like 70% possession, and were pushing for a penalty try in the last minute from a scrum going forward. That wasn't the forwards fault, it was the backs fault for keeping dropping the ball and not being clinical enough, whilst Tonga took their opportunities. Sounds like you didn't even watch that Tonga game as it certainly wasn't the Scottish pack being dominated.

They were second best in the contact area and the first up tackling was poor they were on parity in the scrums and lineouts but for a pack of forwards with that many caps to be dominated so easily at the breakdown shows that Dean Ryan still has a lot of work to do....
 
How could you put Jenkins name there, he wasn't that great and has so little game time.
Although I didn't see all of the ENG-SCO match, I haven't heard many people say how good Gray played and infact people are now saying he isn't that great of a player.
You can't possibly put Davies in there, like I said, did you see the match? It was probably his worst ever performance.
Zebo is a good player, but everyone is focusing on his flick with the boot from Heaslip - let's be honest, it was a bit of a fluke. Apart from that and being on the receiving end of great work for a try - he didn't really do anything special.
Cuthbert was rubbish, yeah he scored a try, but for someone his size his defense is rubbish.
"36" played well but he isn't going to start for the Lions, it was his first cap wasnt it?

My starting team are the players which are the 1st names on my list & out of that team Youngs & SOB just missed out. Maybe i shouldnt of put the other names up but I would be happy if Gats picked that team if the Test was this sat.

Regarding Jenkins no other Prop stood out for me.

Was thier any other player this weekend better than Zebo or Cuthbert ?? Ashton maybe ?
 
My squad? I'd go with-

Props
Cian Healey, Paul James, Andrew Sheridan, Adam Jones, Dan Cole

Hookers
Rory Best, Richard Hibbard, probably Cronin (or Owens) because I'm reluctant to pick either of the English hookers and Ford's dropping off

Second Row
Richie Gray, Ian Evans, Joe Launchbry, Donnacha Ryan

Back Row
Justin Tipuric, Tom Wood, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau, Sean O'Brien, Ben Morgan, Ryan Jones (If Lydiate, Ferris & Rennie get fit in time, they could also squeeze in)

Scrum Half
Danny Care, Ben Youngs, Mike Phillips

Fly Half
Johnny Sexton, Johnny Wilkinson, Owen Farrell/Dan Biggar

Centres
Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi

Wings
Tim Visser, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Chris Ashton/Tommy Bowe if fit

Fullback
Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, Rob Kearney

If needs be, Hogg can cover centre, Halfpenny the wing (As can Tuilagi & Roberts if we're in a pinch), and I'm only taking Ryan because Gatland loves that utility forward option, and Ryan's the best in the business. 3 Scots, 11 English, 7 Irish, 13 Welsh. 34 total. There's obviously some bias there, but I think it's slowly dropping.

Test team of Halfpenny, Cuthbert, O'Driscoll, Davies, Visser, Sexton, Care; James, Hibbard, Adam, Gray, Launchbry, Wood, Tipuric, O'Brien; Best, Healey, Cole, Evans, Warburton, Phillips, Wilkinson, North
 
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My squad? I'd go with-

Props
Cian Healey, Paul James, Andrew Sheridan, Adam Jones, Dan Cole

Hookers
Rory Best, Richard Hibbard, probably Cronin (or Owens) because I'm reluctant to pick either of the English hookers and Ford's dropping off

Second Row
Richie Gray, Ian Evans, Joe Launchbry, Donnacha Ryan

Back Row
Justin Tipuric, Tom Wood, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau, Sean O'Brien, Ben Morgan, Ryan Jones (If Lydiate, Ferris & Rennie get fit in time, they could also squeeze in)

Scrum Half
Danny Care, Ben Youngs, Mike Phillips

Fly Half
Johnny Sexton, Johnny Wilkinson, Owen Farrell/Dan Biggar

Centres
Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi

Wings
Tim Visser, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Chris Ashton/Tommy Bowe if fit

Fullback
Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, Rob Kearney

If needs be, Hogg can cover centre, Halfpenny the wing (As can Tuilagi & Roberts if we're in a pinch), and I'm only taking Ryan because Gatland loves that utility forward option, and Ryan's the best in the business. 3 Scots, 11 English, 7 Irish, 13 Welsh. 34 total. There's obviously some bias there, but I think it's slowly dropping.

Test team of Halfpenny, Cuthbert, O'Driscoll, Davies, Visser, Sexton, Care; James, Hibbard, Adam, Gray, Launchbry, Wood, Tipuric, O'Brien; Best, Healey, Cole, Evans, Warburton, Phillips, Wilkinson, North


I am normally one of the most biased Welshman about but even I wouldn't have that many in the squad and team. Davies ahead of Tuilagi, Cuthbert ahead of Bowe (if fit), Hibbard ahead of Best, and I am not sure James is the best loose head around. They would all have to come into amazing form for this to happen, even then would be a big push.
 
That England performance was hardly due to especially English dominance in the pack. In fact neither the Tonga or England game was really at fault of the Scottish pack. England were hardly pushing them backwards at every scrum and going on massive mauls. I would say England's backs were the difference actually, the Scottish forwards were hardly given "a real slap".

Interesting take - it's pretty much the reverse of how I saw that match in a lot of ways. For me, that game was won almost entirely with the rucking of the English forwards, who produced a mountain of clean quick ball. They absolutely reamed the Scots at the breakdown. This gave the half-backs an absolute armchair ride. The back-row in particular made hay from here, carrying as well as most of the backs. For me, the backs failed to make the most of the conditions. 11 line breaks and 60% plus for both territory and possession? That should have been in the region of 50 points. That it wasn't lies at the backs' door imo.
 
Was I just imagining it or did Marler Youngs and Cole appear to be getting a regular shove on at scrum time? I remember two scrums in particular where the Scots got a massive hit(partly from engaging early), but then got driven right off their own ball...
 
Whatever happened to Gaskell being the best thing since sliced bread?
Think the only person who said/thought that was Mike Brewer.
Everyone else recognised him for what he was: a decent lineout option who is good ball in hand/in space.
Very much a luxury player - play him if the other 7 of your pack on of top form/are brutes - otherwise you're basically losing a forward as the only tight work he's good at is disrupting mauls.
 
Rewind 4 years and remember how all and sundry would profess that Keith Earles was BODs second coming.

I was defo one of them, I think I even said he could be the best in the world one day or something along those lines. And I stand by my statement.
 
My squad? I'd go with-

Props
Cian Healey, Paul James, Andrew Sheridan, Adam Jones, Dan Cole

Hookers
Rory Best, Richard Hibbard, probably Cronin (or Owens) because I'm reluctant to pick either of the English hookers and Ford's dropping off

Second Row
Richie Gray, Ian Evans, Joe Launchbry, Donnacha Ryan

Back Row
Justin Tipuric, Tom Wood, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau, Sean O'Brien, Ben Morgan, Ryan Jones (If Lydiate, Ferris & Rennie get fit in time, they could also squeeze in)

Scrum Half
Danny Care, Ben Youngs, Mike Phillips

Fly Half
Johnny Sexton, Johnny Wilkinson, Owen Farrell/Dan Biggar

Centres
Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi

Wings
Tim Visser, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Chris Ashton/Tommy Bowe if fit

Fullback
Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, Rob Kearney

If needs be, Hogg can cover centre, Halfpenny the wing (As can Tuilagi & Roberts if we're in a pinch), and I'm only taking Ryan because Gatland loves that utility forward option, and Ryan's the best in the business. 3 Scots, 11 English, 7 Irish, 13 Welsh. 34 total. There's obviously some bias there, but I think it's slowly dropping.

Test team of Halfpenny, Cuthbert, O'Driscoll, Davies, Visser, Sexton, Care; James, Hibbard, Adam, Gray, Launchbry, Wood, Tipuric, O'Brien; Best, Healey, Cole, Evans, Warburton, Phillips, Wilkinson, North

I'm sorry, but Cuthbert, Hibbard, Davies (going on the Ireland match) and James as starting Lions? You're joking right?

Edit: what's with people selecting Cuthbert? He's absolute ****. I'd rather have Ashton and that's saying something.
 
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I'm sorry, but Cuthbert, Davies (going on the Ireland match) and James as starting Lions? You're joking right?

Not saying he should start, but Paul James was on the form of his life last season and in my opinion is definitely in with a shout of touring, and there could plausibly be a chance of him starting. For some reason James never gets the credit he deserves, but I've really missed him now he's left the Ospreys, and he really should have been Wales starter since November ahead of Jenkins. He came on and destroyed the Irish in the scrum he was in last Saturday. Just most remember him internationally for filling in at tighthead, which was never his strength. Hopefully when (hopefully) he starts for Wales he will get some more credit he deserves.
 
Rewind 4 years and remember how all and sundry would profess that Keith Earles was BODs second coming.


Meh, I was on the Luke F bandwagon, and still am mind you.

I do remember a lot of people seeing Andrew Trimble becoming one of the world's top centres though, which didn't exactly pan out perfectly.
 
I'm sorry, but Cuthbert, Hibbard, Davies (going on the Ireland match) and James as starting Lions? You're joking right?

Edit: what's with people selecting Cuthbert? He's absolute ****. I'd rather have Ashton and that's saying something.

I didn't know defence was needed to be a Lion.

Ronan+O+Gara+Fourie+Du+Preez+South+Africa+munIvl3EITHl.jpg
 
1) Cian Healy
2) Dylan Hartley
3) Dan Cole
4) Courtney Lawes
5) Richie Gray
6) Steven Ferris
7) Chris Robshaw
8) No quality 's can't choose (just)
9) Mike Phillips
10) Owen Farrell
11) George North
12) Jamie Roberts
13) Manu Tuilagi
14) Tim Visser
15) Leigh Halfpenny
 
Since I was asked, my Lions team/squad...

Front row

I'll start by pencilling in Rory Best, as far as I can tell there's clear daylight between him and the other hookers at present, which means I'd pick my props to fit in with him. As he's a fair groundhog, I feel I can dispense with Dan Cole's skills there in the starting team and would plump for Adam Jones. Slightly iffy about that, as Jones isn't in great form, but then neither's Cole. With Best and Jones picked I want my loosehead to offer some big carries, athleticism and smashmouth defending - so I'd pick Cian Healy, who's also been in excellent scrummaging form. Cole hits the bench if Jones starts. I'm not sure at hooker, I don't pay enough attention to the Welsh hookers, the Scots ones are crap, and Hartley's benching behind Youngs - a better rugby player, but worse at the hooker basics. I think I'd give it to Hibbard, with Hartley also in the squad. Ryan Grant would be my bench loosehead, I like what he's doing and I like his work rate. Assuming we're going with only 5 props, like last time, the extra guy has to be capable of playing both sides - can't think of a better man for that than Paul James.

Second row

Again, Geoff Parling is my front runner here - not only is he doing really well in the lineout, but his ball carrying's been excellent, and he's got a fantastic work rate. So I'd put him at 5 and look for a big athletic guy who can really disrupt people in the tackle for 4. I'd go for Launchbury here - I feel mildly parochial, but Davies is out injured, McCarthy detracts too much from the lineout... the only real competition he has I think is Lawes, or maybe Hines but I don't think he's got the puff for 80 minutes of that. I would take both of those in my touring party, but stick Ian Evans on the bench; I want a second lineout captain there just in case, and I think he can do that. Hard lines on Ryan, but I think he's playing a little within himself, and AW Jones who could force his way into my plans if he returns well from injury. Probably in place of Hines. The omission of Gray is completely intentional and will remain so until he hits some rucks.

Back row

Uhm... well, Ferris is meant to be back in rugby next week, heard that before but will take it at face value, and if he's fit, he's in my side. Australia is just the ideal place for an old school openside, the kind of guy with pace and ball skills, so I'd plump for Tipuric. And at 8, Johnnie Beattie looks in fine form, and offers a good balance as an 8 - does a defensive job, good carrier, good linking. And given there's very little versatility in that back-row, whoever sits on the bench has to be able to do a job at all 3, so it will be James Haskell...

Ok, I kid, I kid. O'Brien. Robshaw or Faletau could do it, but Faletau doesn't do enough extra-versatility stuff to be ahead of O'Brien, and I think O'Brien offers more punch from the bench. Robshaw and Faletau completes my set of touring 6s and 8s which means I need one more 7 and I'm going to hope Rennie recovers in time, much as I'd love to be incredibly biased and pick Chris Henry.

Half-backs

Sexton will be at 10, as Farrell still hasn't convinced me he's enough of a creative player. Farrell to bench though. My final fly-half would be... uhm... Biggar at the moment I guess, although Ruaridh Jackson is close. I want to say Freddie Burns, but his injury means I can't. If Kidney does the decent thing and shoots Rogina, and Madigan or Paddy Jackson do the business, I'd quite possibly say those as well. At scrum-half, I don't have a clue if I'm honest, all the players have flaws including violent swings in form. I'm going to say Youngs, as he's currently in form and has the highest ceiling of the lot imo, but that could very easily be reversed. I'd have Care on the bench, as it's a one-two that works well and Care is a very good player in his own right. My third scrum-half would be Laidlaw - I know there won't be a Phillips-less tour, but I wouldn't take him, and Laidlaw's impressed me. Plus, fourth fly-half if needed for midweek games.

Centres

O'Driscoll is my captain. The 13 shirt is his. He's still got it, there will be no more respected player, and there will be no more driven man. Which means, in fairness, everyone else should be able to play 12 to some extent to have some sort of shot at the tour jersey. I'm going to take two bludgeons - Roberts and Tuilagi - and two distributors - Twelvetrees and Luke Marshall. The last probably has a wee bit of bias about it, but it's him or Matt Scott really for that sort of player, and I think Marshall is that bit more physical. I'd probably go with one of the bludgeons at 12; Farrell (supposedly) offers the playmaking 12 option if needs be. And Roberts is the more natural 12, so barring a breakthrough for Tuilagi it would be Roberts and BOD partying like it's 2009.

Back three

I'm developing something of a man crush on Halfpenny; in particular, the suicidal way he launches into those last man tackles. So I'm going to stick him at 15. I think North is a star to back, his combined physicality and agility offer something different, so onto a wing with him. And, given the aussies do like a kick, I'm going to go with the fashionable two full-back gambit; Hogg or Foden. At the moment I'd say Hogg, but I'd take Foden anyway on the tour. Ideally the back three sub could also play 13, but I'm struggling for names and ideas there; Hogg can a bit I think, so if I take a back-three sub who can play full-back a bit as full-insurance. I'd say Maitland, but am led to doubt his temprament, I'd say Zebo but he injured himself at the wrong moment, so did Bowe... uhm... ah sod it, Foden on the bench. Remaining three wings, Visser attacks well and would offer an alternative big quick man option, Gilroy's always looked good stepping up a level, his defence has been solid and his jinking offers another option and... I'm struggling, I don't think much of our wings, so I'm going to take Jonny May as a bolter on sheer "He'll entertain grounds". Sue me. I'd really love for Tommy Bowe to get fit, he'd be straight in, I'd love to see Walker get a shot for Wales... oh yeah, no Kearney, there's been too many defensive errors for me.

Anyway, to sum up - my team

15. Halfpenny 14. Hogg 13. O'Driscoll 12. Roberts 11. North 10. Sexton 9. Youngs; 1. Healy 2. Best 3. Jones 4. Launchbury 5. Parling 6. Ferris 7. Tipuric 8. Beattie;

16. Hibbard 17. Grant 18. Cole 19. Evans 20. O'Brien 21. Care 22. Farrell 23. Foden

Other tourists: Hartley, James, Lawes, Hines, Robshaw, Rennie, Faletau, Laidlaw, Biggar, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Marshall, Visser, Gilroy, May

Just realised a) I'm one over on backs compared to the last party, so probaby cut Biggar and b) If we are doing 8 man benches, I imagine we'll take more than 5 props. Uhm. Ross and Jenkins/Marler, with the latter depending on release issues. May to be replaced by any wing that can get fit, stay fit and demonstrate quality in time. 12 the position in the test team I am least sure about. Kearney and Tom Wood would probably be the unluckiest players in my Lions selection.
 
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