A Political Thread

[Reiser99]

The number of times I banged my head against a brick wall trying to explain this to Brexiteers... They just didn't want to hear it.

I missed that fact, wish I'd had it for every time someone used that argument previously.

 

[Which Tyler]

Theresa May "It's everybody else's fault. Now damn well agree with me!"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47842572

 

[General Melchett]

I'm starting to realise why Parliament can't agree on anything. Basically each group of MPs has a different idea on what Brexit looks like based on the needs of their own constituencies. The right wing toffs want to turn the UK into a European tax haven for America which will help them all get more rich. This goes against the vision of the EU leaders who are more about social justice and spreading wealth more fairly. Labour and SNP MPs in working class areas want a customs union because people's jobs depend on continuing trade with the EU.

The simple question of staying/leaving in the EU is so fundamentally flawed it's untrue. On top of that you have party division which makes things even worse. May is so hell bent on delivering some kind of technical Brexit just to be seen to delivering the result of the referendum and therefore protecting her legacy - she doesn't care about national interest. Word is that she has refused to budge on any of her red lines during talks with Labour.

 

[Reiser99]

Honestly at this point there is no solution that will work for the U.K and unite everyone. The whole thing has left the country completely divided and those divisions are not going away anytime soon. I have no idea what will happen and I don't think anyone else does. We've basically punted a ball into the air blindfolded and all the MP's are shoving each other out the way to try and catch it.

 

[truthteller]

I'm starting to realise why Parliament can't agree on anything. Basically each group of MPs has a different idea on what Brexit looks like based on the needs of their own constituencies. The right wing toffs want to turn the UK into a European tax haven for America which will help them all get more rich. This goes against the vision of the EU leaders who are more about social justice and spreading wealth more fairly. Labour and SNP MPs in working class areas want a customs union because people's jobs depend on continuing trade with the EU.

The simple question of staying/leaving in the EU is so fundamentally flawed it's untrue. On top of that you have party division which makes things even worse. May is so hell bent on delivering some kind of technical Brexit just to be seen to delivering the result of the referendum and therefore protecting her legacy - she doesn't care about national interest. Word is that she has refused to budge on any of her red lines during talks with Labour.

Ive never read such stereotyped tripe
so anyone anti eu is an elitist tax haven selfish toff lol
all the eu are for justic and spreading wealth fairly lol is that why sme's have been wiped out and corporations have grown bigger than countried under the EU rule? the eu oversee and allow the tax havens, the eu allow price fixing to kill off the poor 3rd world countries imports? why the eu create such enormous red tape only massive corporations can afford the management to deal with them? why the commission is unelected yet allows corporation taxes to fall throughout europe...why their accounts havent been audited for 19 years? why they allow google so much power they have 200 billion in european offsshore accounts? why the gap between rich and poor has grown under them? why umpteen european nations are bankrupt? why so many of the weaker eu nations have gone bust and are now at the whim of the powerful nations for an eternity? powerful to change their own interest rates or print their own money or do anything? all sovereignty and economic independence destroyed for ever? why the EU have literally replaced the italian government themselves? why theyve effectively blackmailed the Uk into destroying brexit by deliberately endaering the northern irish peace process by refusing a deadline date to the backstop....look beneath the over simplistic PC left wing liberal drivel they brainwash students with and look at the real politic....whats actually happenning is the EU is a massive elite out to serve the massive corporations.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

why theyve effectively blackmailed the Uk into destroying brexit by deliberately endaering the northern irish peace process by refusing a deadline date to the backstop....

You are such a dumb **** it's unbelievable.

There's plenty more wrong in that post but **** off with this abhorrent and incorrect narrative, literally no one in NI believes this.

 

[General Melchett]

Ive never read such stereotyped tripe
so anyone anti eu is an elitist tax haven selfish toff lol
all the eu are for justic and spreading wealth fairly lol is that why sme's have been wiped out and corporations have grown bigger than countried under the EU rule? the eu oversee and allow the tax havens, the eu allow price fixing to kill off the poor 3rd world countries imports? why the eu create such enormous red tape only massive corporations can afford the management to deal with them? why the commission is unelected yet allows corporation taxes to fall throughout europe...why their accounts havent been audited for 19 years? why they allow google so much power they have 200 billion in european offsshore accounts? why the gap between rich and poor has grown under them? why umpteen european nations are bankrupt? why so many of the weaker eu nations have gone bust and are now at the whim of the powerful nations for an eternity? powerful to change their own interest rates or print their own money or do anything? all sovereignty and economic independence destroyed for ever? why the EU have literally replaced the italian government themselves? why theyve effectively blackmailed the Uk into destroying brexit by deliberately endaering the northern irish peace process by refusing a deadline date to the backstop....look beneath the over simplistic PC left wing liberal drivel they brainwash students with and look at the real politic....whats actually happenning is the EU is a massive elite out to serve the massive corporations.

There are 650 constituencies - do you know how long it would take to state the needs and preferences of each one or at least every category? I didn't provide a complete list because I didn't anticipate such an imbecilic response. You have assumed I was generalising by saying anyone anti-EU is a right wing toff. Wrong. Every man and his dog knows Corbyn is anti-EU and couldn't be further from a right wing toff. You have also compiled a narrative which implies that I am a big supporter of a flawless EU. Again, wrong - they are far from perfect. It's obvious that this monstrous database for SMEs has shaped your adverse view of the EU even though that's only the tip of the iceberg. Deary me.

 

[ncurd]

couldn't be further from a right wing toff..

Not as far as one might think. from wkipedia

When Corbyn was seven years old, the family moved to Pave Lane in Shropshire, where his father bought Yew Tree Manor, a 17th-century country house which was once part of the Duke of Sutherland's Lilleshall estate.[12][6][13]

Corbyn was educated at Castle House School, an independent preparatory school near Newport, Shropshire, before attending Adams' Grammar School as a day student.[14][15]

I'm more working class than Corbyn...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

True.
A seven bedroom house with outbuildings and paddocks sounds very bourgeoisie.
The Corbyns even changed the name from Manor to House to try and hide it lol.

I mean Corbyn has had a nice life.
Manor house
Private school.
Even though he got 2 E's and failed to get into uni he still travelled to central and south america for 3 years.

Very man of the people.

 

[Reiser99]

'The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the government had sent a document to Labour outlining its latest position.
Sources indicated the PM had not accepted Labour's customs union demand, but there was a move towards changing the non-binding political declaration.'

Yeah, if you sign up to my deal we'll change the political declaration about what will happen next that is in no way legally binding, with a parliament that completely disregards all previous promises. Oh and btw I'm buggering off once it passes and you'll have a new leader, most probably Boris, who will stick the declaration in the toilet of No.10 for when he needs a ****.

 

[Which Tyler]

And she wonders why she's considered untrustworthy (assuming she's aware of it, that is,)

 

[Bada-Bing!]

She’s so blatantly using Labour to threaten the Brexiteers to finally accept her deal. She’s absolutely shameless.

 

[General Melchett]

The talks with Labour will come to nothing and the Brexiteers will never back her deal now which means MV4 is dead in the water. She said her last resort was binding indicative votes and that's probably what it will come down to unless she does another U-turn.

I did find it funny when Mark Francois (a leading Brexiteer) today asked for a second confidence vote in May even though the Tory party rules say she's immune from further votes until November. Funny how second votes seem to be fine for politicians but not the people.

 

[Reiser99]

The talks with Labour will come to nothing and the Brexiteers will never back her deal now which means MV4 is dead in the water. She said her last resort was binding indicative votes and that's probably what it will come down to unless she does another U-turn.

I did find it funny when Mark Francois (a leading Brexiteer) today asked for a second confidence vote in May even though the Tory party rules say she's immune from further votes until November. Funny how second votes seem to be fine for politicians but not the people.

That's one of the most irritating things. The MP's get multiple choices, multiple chances, are allowed to change their minds, yet this one dubious vote two years is sacred and cannot be touched. Like most things with brexiteers they are hypocrites who only say things that suit their views.

 

[Reiser99]

another quote:

"However, the prime minister was warned by members of the 1922 committee of Conservative backbenchers that agreeing a customs union with the EU in Brexit talks would be "unacceptable".
The MPs met Mrs May in Downing Street and it is understood they were more open to the idea of a customs arrangement, which would allow the UK to do its own trade deals."

Isn't that back to having our cake and eating it? Getting the trade benefits without the rules.

 

[General Melchett]

another quote:

"However, the prime minister was warned by members of the 1922 committee of Conservative backbenchers that agreeing a customs union with the EU in Brexit talks would be "unacceptable".
The MPs met Mrs May in Downing Street and it is understood they were more open to the idea of a customs arrangement, which would allow the UK to do its own trade deals."

Isn't that back to having our cake and eating it? Getting the trade benefits without the rules.

Seems like it. I highly doubt the EU would agree to a re-badged customs arrangement with the UK being able to strike it's own trade deals. May's deal and Labour's variations are all inferior and watered down versions of Remain. At least we get a seat at the table and can influence decisions and use vetoes. It's all madness.

 

[Reiser99]

Seems like it. I highly doubt the EU would agree to a re-badged customs arrangement with the UK being able to strike it's own trade deals. May's deal and Labour's variations are all inferior and watered down versions of Remain. At least we get a seat at the table and can influence decisions and use vetoes. It's all madness.

This is another (of many) confusing things about Brexit. Basically any deal, barring the E.U giving exactly what we wanted (which was never going to happen as then more countries would leave and the E.U would collapse), was always going to be pointless as it meant getting some form or trade with no say over the rules. No deal is actually the only option that makes sense from a purely leave point of view because the reality is that all the promises of having trade and having control have been proved false. Brexiteers cling to no deal because they have finally realised it's the only option that actually delivers what they voted for, even though they voted with absolutely no intention of a no deal as it was never put on the table during the referendum.

So now the choices basically boil down to leave with no deal and wreck the economy, make a deal and be subservient to the E.U, which as many people have pointed out is the very thing the leave campaign and newspapers said was the situation when we were full members with voting rights and influence, or remain and get the benefits of trade whilst also being able to influence decisions. The only issue with remain is the greedy leavers, who want Britain to have a special status due to a mix of narcissistic nationalism and racist nostalgia for the glory days of the Empire when we sat on top of the world, would have to accept that we play by the same rules as everyone else. (I reckon this is the hardest thing to accept because some many Brits have this self-inflated nationalistic ego that makes them think Britain and British people are the most incredible in the world and that we deserve special treatment.)

 

[Reiser99]

Also this is an interesting article from Peter Oborne who writes for the Daily Fail.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...WXTlyKKPOMhBykoiOKT9kRI_kTRjLvE8uX42IPz_XpZDE

I disagree with parts of it, especially his ridiculous notion that Brexit was noble endeavour by the British people to stand up to the corruption and oligarchs in Brussels based on freedom and liberty. Also completely disagree that May has done a good job and deserves respect, but that may be a bit more personal.
However whatever it takes to make people realise what a mistake this whole thing is.

 

[Amiga500]

so anyone anti eu is an elitist tax haven selfish toff lol

No.

There are many more poor dumb f**ks that have been led by the nose by these unscrupulous rich looking to exploit the chaos and deregulation of financial markets to their own benefit.

Check your wallet to see which category you fall into.

 

[truthteller]

The EU will shamelessly continue to use the threat to the good friday agreement to blackmail us into staying