[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TRF_Olyy]

No, BV stood there because England ALWAYS have their 8 dropped back for kick returns.
Morgan almost spends as much times in the backs as he does the forwards, with England.

 

[goodNumber10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPsvmXt9EH8
What happened there then? (Also note kick went up into Nowell's area as I said, with BV standing next to him).

You make it sound like they went out to attack Nowell when the simple fact of it is Murray is a right footed box kicker, he favors the right side, as does Sexton. Their best kick chaser is also on the right... so it's a team structure thing rather than a Lets have a go at Jack thing.

This is why they moved the ball from left to right before exiting, as Murray would get more distance and the kick chase would be better.

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Are you seriously using that clip to say he beat a player? That was terrible fall back positioning, and he nearly cost us a try.

Nothing about that clip was more than shocking

How was that terrible fall back positioning?

ireland break, and he's coming forward to meet the player with ball in hand, sexton then fly hacks it on and Goode turns and makes it back... you can dislike the lad all you want but that was a phenomenal piece of play, mainly born from adrenaline.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

For a master class in no. 8 kick returns, re-watch the 2013(?) Six Nations England match against Scotland, Ben Morgan is phenomenal.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How was that terrible fall back positioning?

ireland break, and he's coming forward to meet the player with ball in hand, sexton then fly hacks it on and Goode turns and makes it back... you can dislike the lad all you want but that was a phenomenal piece of play, mainly born from adrenaline.

I'm far from Goode's biggest fan (for England), but agree with you completely.
It was excellent play, not sure what he could have done better TBH.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm far from Goode's biggest fan (for England), but agree with you completely.
It was excellent play, not sure what he could have done better TBH.

Bit more speed running back but I'll give Goode that one.

 

[91jmay]

BV didn't/doesn't do that often for England but did in 2nd half of Ireland game, I agree Nowell wasn't targeted specifically but he did struggle more than Goode against Ireland.

 

[goodNumber10]

BV didn't/doesn't do that often for England but did in 2nd half of Ireland game, I agree Nowell wasn't targeted specifically but he did struggle more than Goode against Ireland.

That's because most teams don't bomb England like Ireland did... It's standard operating procedures for a back row forward to drop in the box defensively in the opposition half.

For two reasons:
The return carry.
Secure the ball if a breakdown occurs.

I'm not sure of your point, are you saying Goode should play on the wing?

I honestly don't think any English winger would have dinner markedly better than Nowell in that game....

 

[TheSaffycen]

That's because most teams don't bomb England like Ireland did... It's standard operating procedures for a back row forward to drop in the box defensively in the opposition half.

For two reasons:
The return carry.
Secure the ball if a breakdown occurs.

I'm not sure of your point, are you saying Goode should play on the wing?

I honestly don't think any English winger would have dinner markedly better than Nowell in that game....

I think Strettle would have been very good in that game, though obviously he isn't a option for many reasons.

 

[91jmay]

BV does not do that as standard, Robshaw much more likely to. No my point is that Goode was fall man but other players much worse than him who was good.

 

[goodNumber10]

as i said it's standard for a backrower to drop into the pocket defensively in the oppositions half - you're making out this was purely because of Nowell, and you're wrong it's a standard system all teams run.

Secondly, Goode is taking the flak because he made a shockingly bad mistake position wise leading into that Ireland try, a mistake he also made in the ERCC semi-final against Clermont where he was again out of position for a chip kick.

I don't think anyone is making Goode out to be the reason we lost, but he certainly made some significant mistakes in that game, and seems to have done little to address his short comings in an England shirt.

 

[91jmay]

Robshaw and BV both dropped deep to cover kicks which is not a standard system. Also not sure how Goode's positioning is 'shocking' on that Ireland score.

 

[goodNumber10]

What are you talking about, of course it's a standard system. Backrow forwards dropping deep is standard, the fact Robshaw and BV did it is irrelevent, they were fullfilling the core Backrow resonsibilites - help out your back three in defence.

Goodes positioning is very poor on that try. He's too flat and too far over subsequently allowing it to bounce and get outjumped by the man coming forward. Which considering positioning is meant to be one of his major strengths..... well.

But carry on looking to blame Nowell (he was defending at 1st Guard) if you want, the point is it doesn't matter if others had poor games, they most certainly did, Goode wasn't, erm... good

 

[michaelbolton]

What are you talking about, of course it's a standard system. Backrow forwards dropping deep is standard, the fact Robshaw and BV did it is irrelevent, they were fullfilling the core Backrow resonsibilites - help out your back three in defence.

Goodes positioning is very poor on that try. He's too flat and too far over subsequently allowing it to bounce and get outjumped by the man coming forward. Which considering positioning is meant to be one of his major strengths..... well.

But carry on looking to blame Nowell (he was defending at 1st Guard) if you want, the point is it doesn't matter if others had poor games, they most certainly did, Goode wasn't, erm... good

So much agreement with this.. I am not saying others didn't have bad games vs Ireland but I can't think of anyone who had a worse one or made more costly mistakes. And that run remains the only good thing I have ever seen him do in an England shirt (17 caps), even then there was an opportunity to go the length but he didn't have the speed or fitness and didn't even look for the pass as is his supposed strength he just fell into the nearest guy so he had done his job

Edit: Just checked it was Ford Joseph and Watson vs Zebo with half a pitch width

 

[brokenoses]

any late room for Ewers? ive been holding out hope but its diminishing. not bitter about him being sacrificed for Burgess, im looking forward to seeing what impact he could have at 6. i just think SL could have seen past his loyalty to Tom Wood and to the potential Ewers has for England to cover 8 as well as 6. seems like its just what the squad needs with Robshaw blocking the way for a jackalling 7.

speaking directly from my Exeter-tinted goggles i think a backline with Slade in it could help tie any defence into knots.

10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Roko
15. Brown
-----------
23. Watson

this could also free up room at 22 for a out and out midfielder with Slade/Ford covering 10

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If crane can drop back for kicks (which he does) anyone can!

My personal favourite is when Leicester get Mulipola to drop back for kicks.

 

[michaelbolton]

any late room for Ewers? ive been holding out hope but its diminishing. not bitter about him being sacrificed for Burgess, im looking forward to seeing what impact he could have at 6. i just think SL could have seen past his loyalty to Tom Wood and to the potential Ewers has for England to cover 8 as well as 6. seems like its just what the squad needs with Robshaw blocking the way for a jackalling 7.

speaking directly from my Exeter-tinted goggles i think a backline with Slade in it could help tie any defence into knots.

10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Slade
13. Joseph
14. Roko
15. Brown
-----------
23. Watson

this could also free up room at 22 for a out and out midfielder with Slade/Ford covering 10

Not Exeter tinted but this is what I would pick too.. Not sure who as bench centre though possibly Barritt just in case. Back row is still the area I am second least convinced on, would still love Kvesic at 7 and think he could transform our game almost as much as Joseph has, he is essentially Robshaw but quick and better over the ball... Only reason I can think why Robshaw above him is captaincy and experience (Lancasters fault)

 

[brokenoses]

yeah i think Barritt has earned his stripes despite criticism, certainly preferable over Burrell and 36 IMO. if not somebody like Eastmond or even Sam Hill as a bit of an impact sub. only other options are chunky 10's really. maybe Fazlet for diplomatic reasons...

Id love to see Ewers, Kvesic and BV having a run. but yeah, with Robshaw at 6.5 and a halo, no chance. Maybe during the summer or even vs Fiji/Uruguay

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Not Exeter tinted but this is what I would pick too.. Not sure who as bench centre though possibly Barritt just in case. Back row is still the area I am second least convinced on, would still love Kvesic at 7 and think he could transform our game almost as much as Joseph has, he is essentially Robshaw but quick and better over the ball... Only reason I can think why Robshaw above him is captaincy and experience (Lancasters fault)

It's partly why we have kept with wood as he is quick and plays that 6.5 role as well. Wood on form works with robshaw and a balanced pack.

I'm not saying ewers wouldn't work with robshaw at 7 but we would seriously lack pace from our back row.

With robshaw at 7 you need a quick 6, but kvesic and robshaw wouldn't really work anymore as robshaw is a 7, he doesn't play like a 6 anymore

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd love to see Ewers, Kvesic and Morgan as a back 3. Lacking lineout options but I think the work in field would more than make up for it.

 

[michaelbolton]

I'd love to see Ewers, Kvesic and Morgan as a back 3. Lacking lineout options but I think the work in field would more than make up for it.

I am gunning for Itoje, Kvesic Morgan post WC, would be such a big improvement. Especially when you think of the likes of Launchbury and Cowan Dickie elsewhere in the pack to add some dynamism and mobility. And whoever mentioned Hill he is good but so not ready yet, that is definitely your Exeter bias