[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[ratsapprentice]

5 players due to be cut from the squad this week. :violin:

 

[Maverick1987]

5 players due to be cut from the squad this week. :violin:

Who do we think/would like it to be ?

 

[Raggs]

Ashton, Burrell, Easter, Kruis, Mullan, Myler

That's 6 I think are potentially most at risk. Kruis more likely to go than Easter.

 

[goodNumber10]

Ashton, Burrell, Easter, Kruis, Mullan, Myler

That's 6 I think are potentially most at risk. Kruis more likely to go than Easter.

You think Burrell is more at risk than Eastmond?

I think we'll lose:
Roko, Eastmond, Kvesic, Kruis, Myler, Dickson

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hoping it will be twelvetrees if a 12 goes

 

[Raggs]

More what I think they'll do. They should drop Eastmond, since unfortunately they never give him a fair crack of the whip, and certainly won't pair him with Ford. However, I think they like the idea of Farrell + Eastmond, so he may stay in.

If they drop Roko over Ashton they're doing it wrong. I also suspect a 10 will be on his way, there's Farrell, Ford, Cips, Myler, Slade, with some cover from Goode and 36. No need for 5 10s, when we'll be taking 2-3 to the RWC.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think Myler, Clark, Kruis, Mullan, Ashton

 

[Raggs]

I think Myler, Clark, Kruis, Mullan, Ashton

Yeah, they won't drop Dickson on 2nd thoughts, 3 SH will be in the 31, you'll not drop the 4th this early. Maybe swap him for Simpson?

Clarke/Kvesic to be the extra drop.

 

[Every Time Ref]

If Eastmond stays it doesn't bode well for Ford, unfortunately

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why?
Lancs n crew much prefer Ford to Eastmond.

 

[Crapspray]

If Eastmond stays it doesn't bode well for Ford, unfortunately

Luckily he's started the last seven tests for England, scored two tries, created a few more, kicked about 80%, and won a man of the match award. That should undo it.

Seriously, why would Lancaster drop Ford now? Ford-Barritt-Joseph > Farrell-Eastmond-Barritt. Let's be honest, Eastmond just doesn't fit in Lancaster's Engalnd.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...v-sky-terrestrial-television?CMP=share_btn_tw

Vitally (can't be understated IMO) important that it stays free to air.

 

[Maverick1987]

My opinion on the Farrell vs Ford argument is that we have a simple decision to make do we choose Ford and maybe play Barritt to sure up the defence and be the leader as he assumes the role so well or do we play Farrell and play Eastmond at inside centre to add a bit of spark maybe ? Or do we play both and use Farrell at inside centre ? It would be a huge shame to go back to our static attack after the last 6N was so bloody exciting that's for certain ....

What's you opinions and preferences guys ?

 

[goodNumber10]

My opinion on the Farrell vs Ford argument is that we have a simple decision to make do we choose Ford and maybe play Barritt to sure up the defence and be the leader as he assumes the role so well or do we play Farrell and play Eastmond at inside centre to add a bit of spark maybe ? Or do we play both and use Farrell at inside centre ? It would be a huge shame to go back to our static attack after the last 6N was so bloody exciting that's for certain ....

What's you opinions and preferences guys ?

As I said in the other thread I think people need to look at the options Ford had and the ball the pack delivered compared to Farrell at 10.

In the two games over the last season where the pack got bossed ford disappeared... Ireland and prem final, he also went missing against Wales when the pressure came on in a way I've not seen Farrell do.

I like Ford, I love watching him play he's certainly our best attacking fly half, I'm just unconvinced he's our best option at 10 because I don't think the difference he brings in attack is enough to win the World Cup, whereas I think Farrell's defense and kicking is....maybe not this time round but certainly by 2019 it will be.

 

[Raggs]

To bring conversation back to this thread.

Ford had a pack missing Launch and Lawes for large periods. Farrell has had a pack enjoying Youngs starting, Cole, Launch, Lawes, and on song Wood. And whilst Farrell may not have had Joseph, he has had Manu, so let's not pretend he didn't have some serious firepower in the backline.

Ford is lightyears ahead of Farrell in attack, and GN10, you should stop trying to push the kicking line, you may still trust Farrell more, but it's not going to sway many others. Defence is all that Farrell has, and that's purely down to size, and I've seen Farrell bounced as much as Ford due to the technique both employ, Farrell still seems to tackle like he's one of the bigger guys at u20s, and that's not working for him so well (unless it's clotheslining/no arms).

 

[goodNumber10]

To bring conversation back to this thread.

Ford had a pack missing Launch and Lawes for large periods. Farrell has had a pack enjoying Youngs starting, Cole, Launch, Lawes, and on song Wood. And whilst Farrell may not have had Joseph, he has had Manu, so let's not pretend he didn't have some serious firepower in the backline.

Ford is lightyears ahead of Farrell in attack, and GN10, you should stop trying to push the kicking line, you may still trust Farrell more, but it's not going to sway many others. Defence is all that Farrell has, and that's purely down to size, and I've seen Farrell bounced as much as Ford due to the technique both employ, Farrell still seems to tackle like he's one of the bigger guys at u20s, and that's not working for him so well (unless it's clotheslining/no arms).

I've not asked anyone to agree with me, and last time I checked offering an opinion and explaining it wasn't against the forum rules so I'm not sure why I shouldn't push whatever point I want.

Tuilagi brings a very different shape to England's attack, much more narrow so you can't compare Joseph an elusive player and Tuilagi a physical player...

The personnel in the pack also isn't the point it's how that pack have played, there have been frequent periods where Farrell has had to play behind a pack delivering slow/static ball, a pack with an in form Wood at 8.

When that happened against Ireland Ford was wholely ineffective also.

The point I'm making about the options is about attacking shape... The attacking shape under England is different because of a number of things you can't put it being there all on Ford and it missing all on Farrell.

 

[Peat]

While we're restating our opinions after a period with no new evidence in which to change them; Ford's defence is definitely worrying for an international fly-half, Fazlet's kicking is nothing special, I hope the answer is actually Henry Slade although it sadly isn't today.

I think Raggs has a good point about who was in which team mind.

 

[Raggs]

Of course you're allowed to state whatever opinion you like, but when you keep pushing place kicking as a point of difference in Farrells favour, don't be surprised if people keep pointing out that Ford has a better record in the AP (both % and difficulty) and did a decent job in the 6N, whilst Farrell has fluffed his lines at times. It's simply not a big enough issue for it to be classed as a point of difference in Farrells favour.

Farrell has defence, which in my opinion, has been overegged to some degree. He also has his breakdown work, which is significant, in his favour.

I do believe Farrells attack has improved since he was first brought in, but it's nowhere near Ford, and for Sarries and England, he seems to rely on the scrum half to run the game for the most part, which is fine for Sarries, since that's a strength of Wiggles, but it depends heavily on the form of the current incumbent England scrumhalf. I suspect Farrell will continue to be in and around the England side for a while, but I don't see him getting a regular starting place for some time, and really hope he doesn't take the 12 shirt, since I don't think he's close to international standard there.

---------

EDIT - And just to add, can you imagine how much damage Ford could do with Manu? He may be a very different player to Joseph, but Ford could get a lot more out of him than Farrell did.

 

[goodNumber10]

Ford has frequently fluffed his lines in the big games.... Two years running he has completely bottled it at the play off stages of the premiership - this year he was completely outplayed by Farrell in pretty much every facet of play (go look at Morgan's analysis of how big an impact Farrell had).

Secondly kicking IS a major difference - but I never said it was the difference between Ford and Farrell, I said it was why he, Farrell, was vital for the world cup, not that Ford shouldn't play 10, that's something ragerancher said and you all ran with it.

 

[goodNumber10]

I also dont agree about Tiulagi and Ford. Farrell plays much flatter than Ford, Tuilagi runs great lines off him. Ford is a better decision maker with ball in hand that's why his passing finds guys like Joseph in space, he's also a better support runner than Farrell.

It's basically Rob Andrew vs Stuart Barnes 20 years on...