[2015 Six Nations] England vs Italy (Round 2)

[goodNumber10]

How did everyone think Haskell went?
I thought he was excellent again particularly in the carrying

Very Well i thought. this is worth reading: http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/six-nations-five-things-england-learnt-italy-43035

Especially the bit about the backrow (in this context)

 

[Maverick1987]

Are any of our injured players likely to be in contention for the game in Ireland ? How long is Corbs out for ? Be nice for him to be on the bench . I like Mako but his scrummaging is a worry

 

[HenryChinaski]

Very Well i thought. this is worth reading: http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/six-nations-five-things-england-learnt-italy-43035

Especially the bit about the backrow (in this context)

Yeah, interesting stuff.
Particularly around the potential dynamics between Ford and Twelvetrees. How nice si it to have two good distributors and kicking players in your midfield...but then I also really like Burrell and what he brings. I think he's very underrated - runs soem good lines, has an ability to free his arms in the tackle and perhaps most improtantly is AWARE, and looks to make those passes.
However, we can't have them all.

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah, interesting stuff.
Particularly around the potential dynamics between Ford and Twelvetrees. How nice si it to have two good distributors and kicking players in your midfield...but then I also really like Burrell and what he brings. I think he's very underrated - runs soem good lines, has an ability to free his arms in the tackle and perhaps most improtantly is AWARE, and looks to make those passes.
However, we can't have them all.

personally i'd stick with Burrell and keep 36 on the bench - it's worked well so far and he's played good when he's come off the bench, both against Samoa and the last two games. He seems to be a player who responds to the "making a difference" ethos.

Dare i say it, he and Burrell remind me very much of Catt/Greenwood dynamic. A Solid player who was a good distributor coupled with a bench player who was a really good distributor with a good kicking game.

 

[ncurd]

Personally I think England back then looked more assured when Tindall came off and Greenwood moved to OC whilst Catt played IC. Wilkinson always seamed much calmer with Catt as a second receiver. Not that we looked terrible

I think there's a fair argument to 36 starting he played well coming off the bench but Burrell didn't do too much wrong either. I'd play Eastmond as I think the link-up play between player who know each other extremely well will be brilliant but that's the Bath fan talking.

 

[Captain Robshaw]

I thought Haskell was far less prominent than against Wales to be honest. That goes with most of the team though to be fair.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, interesting stuff.
Particularly around the potential dynamics between Ford and Twelvetrees. How nice si it to have two good distributors and kicking players in your midfield...but then I also really like Burrell and what he brings. I think he's very underrated - runs soem good lines, has an ability to free his arms in the tackle and perhaps most improtantly is AWARE, and looks to make those passes.
However, we can't have them all.

I have to say I thought England's resurgence against Italy completely coincided with the injury break. So was it the lengthy break in play? Or was it as I suspect having 36 at 12? That pass for the May blunder was gorgeous.

 

[goodNumber10]

Personally I think England back then looked more assured when Tindall came off and Greenwood moved to OC whilst Catt played IC. Wilkinson always seamed much calmer with Catt as a second receiver. Not that we looked terrible

Well worked well enough in the 2003 final

I think there's a fair argument to 36 starting he played well coming off the bench but Burrell didn't do too much wrong either. I'd play Eastmond as I think the link-up play between player who know each other extremely well will be brilliant but that's the Bath fan talking.

I wouldn't be upset with either option to be honest.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I must say I think if there was any game to play the Bath 10-12-13 it would be this one. Ireland seem to have the least physical threat out of all the teams this year. But I would stick with Burrell and Joseph, Henshaw and Payne haven't looked that great to me and with Joseph you have a guy were the sky is the limit.

 

[Every Time Ref]

How did everyone think Haskell went?
I thought he was excellent again particularly in the carrying

Not as good as the Wales game, but I would agree with you there - except that the two (count 'em) dumb penalties were very Haskell circa 2008

 

[Peat]

Yeah. That first penalty really got my goat. He probably didn't hear him to be fair, but even so...

I want Haskell to up his involvement levels. I don't see why he should be lagging behind the other two back-rows there (might keep an eye out for defensive positioning when doing ruck marks). His additional physicality is great but I'm not sure the all-round package is strong enough. It should see him through the series, I think, but I don't think he's sealing the shirt ahead of Wood or Croft.

Weirdly, Haskell's place does get stronger the more injured return, imo. Right now, I think we've got from a pack of workhorses without enough physicality to plenty of physicality and not enough work/mobility. The return of Lawes or Parling would restore the balance a bit.

I think the back row I've been most impressed with is Billy. His defensive workload has skyrocketed. I still kinda think maybe he should lose some weight to get around the pitch more though.

 

[j'nuh]

Hate to flog a dying horse, but a high work rate, physical 6? There's one obvious option, but he's in the Saxons.

 

[goodNumber10]

Hate to flog a dying horse, but a high work rate, physical 6? There's one obvious option, but he's in the Saxons.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hate to flog a dying horse, but a high work rate, physical 6? There's one obvious option, but he's in the Saxons.

I think you a flogging a horse that has been dead, resurrected and then killed again due to excessive flogging.

Having said that, I agree

 

[Every Time Ref]

Hey guys, what about Ewers?!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hey guys, what about Ewers?!

Who is he?

 

[McTallshort]

Who is he?

Isnt he the blond lad who plays 7 for Glous?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Isnt he the blond lad who plays 7 for Glous?

Nah I think he's called Kevin.

 

[Raggs]

Billy V will be able to do a lot more work because he's no longer the only carrier in the backrow. Haskell means he can spare some energy for something other than running at 3 men at a time. The balance works much better.

Ewers doesn't stand a chance at getting the 6 shirt whilst all he contributes at the lineout is not falling over. And with his humpback I don't know if he'll ever be a jumper. If we get an 8 that can work the lineout, then he's an option again. It's a shame as he's been looking bloody good recently (again, in a backrow with 2 good carriers to share the load).

Thought Hasks 1st pen was actually harsh, and should have been a turnover, but have to play the ref. Would point out in his last 4 starts for England he's given away 4 pens, not bad. Wood in his last 4 games (including 13 mins for Samoa), has given away 8 (2 in each).

 

[Every Time Ref]

Ewers doesn't stand a chance at getting the 6 shirt whilst all he contributes at the lineout is not falling over. And with his humpback I don't know if he'll ever be a jumper. If we get an 8 that can work the lineout, then he's an option again. It's a shame as he's been looking bloody good recently (again, in a backrow with 2 good carriers to share the load).

I don't see how he absolutely needs to be a jumper to get a spot (although Lancaster likes a jumper at 6), three jumping options, a reliable thrower and well-drilled choreography surely are enough for a top class lineout. Are you saying he doesn't lift? Because I can see how that is a more serious problem, but surely can be learned in time.

Thought Hasks 1st pen was actually harsh, and should have been a turnover, but have to play the ref. Would point out in his last 4 starts for England he's given away 4 pens, not bad. Wood in his last 4 games (including 13 mins for Samoa), has given away 8 (2 in each).

Yeah the first one wasn't necessarily a stone cold penalty (FWIW I thought it was, but debatable), but the ref communicated it clearly and he stayed where he was. Second one was obviously stupid. Haskell of recent years is obviously a long way from the penalty machine he used to be, and he has been superb for England over two games this 6N, like you say he's had a huge positive impact on the balance of the back row. However, it is worth pointing out that both high quality performances have been slightly tempered by avoidable errors - in this case the two penalties, against Wales one awful missed tackle and postgate.

 

[Raggs]

Robshaw is OK in the lineout, but I'd not class him as a true 3rd option, Haskell and Robshaw together just about cover enough, Ewers (I think he does lift) does not jump, he doesn't need to be marked whatsoever and that's an issue.

Blaming the post on him is harsh, he got hit too far out to dive, spun around, and with 3 guys on him managed to drive himself in the right direction to what would have been a likely try (may have been held up given he was getting wrapped). It's not that he just ran into the post, he was originally heading between the posts till he got hit off course.