[2015 Six Nations] England vs Italy (Round 2)

[ratsapprentice]

Watson and Nowell would be my preference.

We put back in some of the Mike Brown style direct running with Nowell.
I'm a massive fan of Nowell, and I think bringing Goode in would be retrograde.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Watson and Nowell would be my preference.

We put back in some of the Mike Brown style direct running with Nowell.
I'm a massive fan of Nowell, and I think bringing Goode in would be retrograde.

Couldn't agree more, but the unfortunate elephant in the room is still Lancasters selection; Jonathan Joseph was never Lancasters preferred choice at 13 despite being in-form. I don't think James Haskell would have been picked were it not for the injury to Tom Wood... Cipriani has been in form but Lancaster never wanted him in a his match day 23, particularly.
So that's my worry, really. We're still not out of the woods yet when it comes to the matter of selection.

One thing in particular bugs me, which is that last six nations, Nowell was picked over Watson, and despite as far as I can tell not being in any poorer form then a year ago, now Watson is preferred. Now, I never had an opinion on which of the two should be first in line and I'm more than happy with Watson, but it worries me that they've been swapped around; I felt that whoever was picked last year should be given another chance this year.

 

[goodNumber10]

It took France 30 years to win a game... Italy have done more than that, and have had games taken off them against Ireland one year.. and many more that if they had hit kicks they would have won.

France beat Scotland in their second season 1911, they then stuffed Ireland in something like 1920(?), with a four year gap for the world war in the middle of that period.

Additionally Italy have been involved professional era, France were not... Italy need time though, that is clear, but they also need to get their own house in order.

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Watson and Nowell would be my preference.

We put back in some of the Mike Brown style direct running with Nowell.
I'm a massive fan of Nowell, and I think bringing Goode in would be retrograde.

agreed

 

[ncurd]

I think it's because Nowell was pretty ineffectual in his first stab at it as was May. Watson was playing pretty well for Bath outside Joseph and Ford whom had made the team so I think that's how the decision for him to be included happened.

Nowell was probably between him and May but May scored an utterly brilliant try again NZ so probably had the tip of the hat to stay in.

I think he'll play Goode in an otherwise unchanged 23 unless Lawes/Launchbury/Parling are fit.

He'd be mad to drop Jospeh whom everyone is purring about currently.

Personally I would play Goode (prefer a designated full back rather than someone who could cover) bring in bring in Tewlvetrees or Eastmond at 12 and swap May for Nowell. That won't happen forwards I'd make the above changes if the are fit.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nowell was very effective last tournament IMO.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think it's because Nowell was pretty ineffectual in his first stab at it as was May. Watson was playing pretty well for Bath outside Joseph and Ford whom had made the team so I think that's how the decision for him to be included happened.

Nowell was probably between him and May but May scored an utterly brilliant try again NZ so probably had the tip of the hat to stay in.

I think he'll play Goode in an otherwise unchanged 23 unless Lawes/Launchbury/Parling are fit.

He'd be mad to drop Jospeh whom everyone is purring about currently.

Personally I would play Goode (prefer a designated full back rather than someone who could cover) bring in bring in Tewlvetrees or Eastmond at 12 and swap May for Nowell. That won't happen forwards I'd make the above changes if the are fit.

Personally I felt that Nowell was more impressive last year than May, and given his superior defensive abilities, I'm surprised May is the incumbent.

In fact I'd say its pretty incongruous with Lancasters general seelction criteria and preferences to be sticking with May

 

[ncurd]

Just had a quick check as I don't remember him scoring.

His only try was V Italy (which everyone and his dog got in the action on) and I can't remember anything 'special' he did whilst Brown was a standout player in the backs (and Care). Now that's probably because of center partnership we had then and like I said I'd play him with the reports of how is playing at Exeter. I think he'll be a far better choice than May.

 

[goodNumber10]

he was excellent, did a lot of close quarters carrying as you'd expect your 14 to do, lots of work around the contact area and his try against italy was him coming from blind on the slide round the corner.

He was head and shoulders above May imho, who looked startled the whole 6Nations.

May came good in the AI's but he's been pretty lack lustre the last two games (Cip's try aside)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

he was excellent, did a lot of close quarters carrying as you'd expect your 14 to do, lots of work around the contact area and his try against italy was him coming from blind onf the slide round the corner.

He was head and shoulders above May imhp, who looked startled the whole 6Nations.

May came good in the AI's but he's been pretty lack lustre the last two games (Cip's try aside)

I always knew the reason you were here was to try and make us buy shampoo


Agree about May but as long as the team as a whole plays well I can't see May being dropped.

 

[ratsapprentice]

England's increased attacking potency was largely off the back of Brown and Nowell's carrying - our forwards were pretty limp in this regard for the most part.

 

[g6mcg]

I imagine Nowell's been leap frogged because he was injured in the autumn, so Watson and May became the incumbents.

 

[goodNumber10]

I always knew the reason you were here was to try and make us buy shampoo

LOL!!!

Agree about May but as long as the team as a whole plays well I can't see May being dropped.

Yeah, hard to argue he gets dropped when Watson was equally as weak defensively when at 14.

 

[ncurd]

I think it's more to do with May's decision making. He gives off the air of always making the wrong choice once he's finally made one. Plus he had a pretty poor week against Wales whilst other flourished and was pretty poor against Italy too (one moment aside). His errors have been glaring as well butchering a three on two (just pass the bloody ball) and not being able to even move a player flirting with the touch line at the pace he was going at when he hit him. Watson was hardly better in defense possibly true but he didn't play poorly in other aspects and did pretty good against Wales. May has had two good moments in his entire England career so far (NZ and Cip try) and I don't think the next one will come soon and he's more likely to cost us points than gain them.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I imagine Nowell's been leap frogged because he was injured in the autumn, so Watson and May became the incumbents.

That would make sense!
In other news, I think and hope that in Youngs and Wigglesworth we have quite a balanced combo.
I think with Youngs though I'm destined to forever see-saw between thinking he's good and thinking he's terrible. There's something weird about him - even when he plays poorly, he gives England the sort of structure which overall seems to make us play better?
In contrast, if you watched Care at the weekend he continued his recent habit of crabbing and then passing straight into the oppositions hands!

 

[B10]

With Easter scoring to become the oldest try scorer for England I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the youngest try scorer is?

With regards to Nowell, I'm a bit biased as I watch Exeter every now and again and have been a big fan of Jack for a while. But I think he linked up with Brown very nicely last year and did a lot of a good carries. I like May but he looks a bit erratic at the moment and Nowell is much more reliable.

 

[Peat]

Seem to recall that Nowell picked up an injury over the summer, didn't tour, and May got a bit of an edge on him.

*googles* Ah, there we go. Shoulder nerve injury during last 6N; Exeter put him under the knife to clear up a knee injury while he was going to be out anyway; returned this September and was probably slightly behind the curve to get in during the Autumn.

Personally I thought both him and May has somewhat underrated 6Ns last time around. Their carrying kept putting England on the front foot again and again, despite usually receiving man and ball, without making too many major defensive foul-ups. Their finishing was ropey, May's in particular, but there's more to life as a winger than scoring tries.

I'd like us to persevere with May. I wouldn't quibble too much if he got dropped, if they're seeing him make mistakes on the training field then it might be time to twist, but long term it is better for England to give young players and new combinations time and confidence. Wish it was the Scotland/France game next, as I feel that would limit the gamble either way, but alas next match is everything...

 

[ncurd]

With Easter scoring to become the oldest try scorer for England I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the youngest try scorer is?

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/player/youngest_tryscorer.html?id=1;type=team

 

[Peat]

Would just like to add...

Lots of praise for Twelvetrees, but not too much mention of him and Youngs completely missing the line break that leads to Italy's third try. Arguably its more Youngs fault (Tom not Ben) as he's the inside man, but I'd like to think a better read would have had Twelvetrees holding his ground a little.

And speaking of Youngs, this time Ben, he never should be up in the line in fringe defence off of slow ball. Never. That's what happens just prior to the first try, Ghiraldini barrels through him for cheap yards, and Italy get the quick ball that creates Parisse's try in the next phase.

However, I thought he did very well to get the ball away quickly to Ford in the build up to Joseph's first under a fair bit of pressure. There'll always be justified complaints about the level of some of his technical skills, but I feel those are overdone and his ability to exploit little openings when in form is well worth it. He's also got the strongest understanding with Ford of any of our scrum-halves, which is a huge plus at the moment.

 

[yaboyjj]

With Easter scoring to become the oldest try scorer for England I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the youngest try scorer is?

With regards to Nowell, I'm a bit biased as I watch Exeter every now and again and have been a big fan of Jack for a while. But I think he linked up with Brown very nicely last year and did a lot of a good carries. I like May but he looks a bit erratic at the moment and Nowell is much more reliable.

There is certainly something to be said about this; right now Brown and Watson seem to be working well together as a unit- I always get the impression Brown doesn't seem to like/trust May :lol: I just think that Nowell is a better fit right now.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

How did everyone think Haskell went?
I thought he was excellent again particularly in the carrying