England World Cup Squad

[BrokenWing]

It’s per season is it not? So maybe he thought it wasn’t worth making wholesale changes with just the summer games to bed them all in.

I’m not saying I agree, I’m simply trying to think of a reason why.

 

[BPM]

I’m hoping for a big change but just don’t trust we‘ll get one

Same here. There probably will be a decent amount of change purely based upon the age profile of the squad.

From the RWC squad, Marler, Cole, Lawes, Tuilagi and May will probably retire from England duty.

Youngs probably never will, but it’s irrelevant if he’s not being picked anyway.

Farrell will never retire from England duty. He’ll keep playing on for as long as he can like Sexton. Borthwick just needs to be strong enough to leave him out.

Others like Billy and Daly are young enough to stay there, but have passed their best and shouldn’t be included.

Unless the proposed ‘hybrid contracts’ make a difference, Ribbans and Willis are unavailable. Not sure what the situation is with Arundell?

If all of those were left out, that’s more than a third of the squad.

 

[Ddanno]

Pretty sure Arundell is unavailable

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pretty sure Arundell is unavailable

They've announced they're bending the rules for him - available for the 6N but not the summer tour if he extends in France

 

[BrokenWing]

They've announced they're bending the rules for him - available for the 6N but not the summer tour if he extends in France

Have they actually said that definite?
I read a classic report where the headline said that but actually what they meant was it was still to be decided if they were going to give him the dispensation.

 

[TopTen2003]

As an aside- even though we think SB would never pick him- Sinfield has come out and said Underhill is 100% available for selection for the QF and trained like an animal in the initial camp.

Christ I’d love it if we could get him 20 minutes against Fiji and get ourselves through to the Semis- having someone as physical as him would be a massive boost against the big 4.

(PS of course absolutely expecting hell from Fiji based on the Twickenham performance so by no means writing them off!!) Just wanted to make the point about how much I rate Underhill as an international.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Have they actually said that definite?
I read a classic report where the headline said that but actually what they meant was it was still to be decided if they were going to give him the dispensation.

Henry Arundell to be available for England in Six Nations despite move to France

The former London Irish man is set to move to Racing 92 in Paris after the Rugby World Cup

www.independent.co.uk

 

[West Country Wail]

 

[Which Tyler]

It’s per season is it not? So maybe he thought it wasn’t worth making wholesale changes with just the summer games to bed them all in.

I’m not saying I agree, I’m simply trying to think of a reason why.

Yeah, he may not have felt it was worth it, but that doesn't mean that he was limited to 5 changes - he had as many changes as he wanted - he just didn't want to use many.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Ludlum showed physicality and was probably our best backrow and was dropped for Billy last week so what are the chances SB has learnt a lesson and will drop Billy or will he not.

Then how can underhill leap Ludlum who shouldn’t have been dropped previously?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ludlum showed physicality and was probably our best backrow and was dropped for Billy last week so what are the chances SB has learnt a lesson and will drop Billy or will he not.

Then how can underhill leap Ludlum who shouldn’t have been dropped previously?

You’re applying logic. Please desist immediately.

Underhill wasn’t announced until after the match. Lawes had a bad one and I’m wondering if that was what prompted the selection - a run off the bench in the QF with an eye to a possible starting spot in the semi if Lawes has another poor one - Father Time does everyone in the end.

Of course Underhill should have been there in the first place making all this academic. I got a bit flamed for saying that I didn’t really see where Ludlam fitted in if everyone was fit and, unfortunately for him, it’s played out that way a bit.

 

[TommiG88]

I would like to see how a underhill, curry and Earl back row would do against fiji

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I would like to see how a underhill, curry and Earl back row would do against fiji

Would be interesting. All a bit samey though albeit with slightly different strengths.

Pretty sure that Borthwick said that the last batch of players to be canned before the squad was announced would be the first cabs off the rank in the event of injury. Underhill wasn’t one of those. I think it’s the right call but it’s not doing what you say.

He also said that Farrell would be in the team and captain regardless. He may need to rethink that (I mean he won’t, but should). The guy’s patently out of form. Also bulked up for the centre role making him even slower. At the moment we’re a worse team for having him in.

 

[Geordie]

he has dropped Farrell before, no reason he wont do it again if hes not performing .....which clearly hes not.

 

[Saintjay]

he has dropped Farrell before, no reason he wont do it again if hes not performing .....which clearly hes not.

I don't think all the blame can be put on Farrell. There's probably at least 6 players who should not be any where near the first xv at the moment.

I do think we have good players but for some reason they are aweful for England. We look incapable of quick ball. The forwards have been pretty terrible as a whole, so the backs look even worse, we couldn't score off a driving line out maul for love or money. We can't make five passes and produce any width. Would love to know how many turn overs the back three are winning, it seems like none.......i could go on.

Something isn't right and the only thing i can think of is the players are not buying into it. So that's on the coaching team. When SB started he said England were not could at anything. It's pretty safe to say several games later we are worse at everything.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not a fan of calls to drop Ludlam, that is a luxury we can have when we are playing well. At the moment we need players to go out there and do a job and Ludlam has consistently been one of our strongest performers in a dire team, often surpassing the players being viewed on paper as better than him. I am not a fan of rewarding some of the best form in the team with being dropped. Let others take the shirt off him, don't let them get it by default because they may be better on paper or may have a higher ceiling. Let them earn it. As far as I'm concerned, he has earned his spot and many others haven't.

 

[BrokenWing]

Yeah, he may not have felt it was worth it, but that doesn't mean that he was limited to 5 changes - he had as many changes as he wanted - he just didn't want to use many.

Absolutely, but if he’d have been given that option as soon as taking on the job it might have been different. I don’t think so, but maybe.

 

[Saintjay]

Not a fan of calls to drop Ludlam, that is a luxury we can have when we are playing well. At the moment we need players to go out there and do a job and Ludlam has consistently been one of our strongest performers in a dire team, often surpassing the players being viewed on paper as better than him. I am not a fan of rewarding some of the best form in the team with being dropped. Let others take the shirt off him, don't let them get it by default because they may be better on paper or may have a higher ceiling. Let them earn it. As far as I'm concerned, he has earned his spot and many others haven't.

Even with my Saints bias, i can't see how Underhill walks straight back in. Over the last two years Ludlam has been the better player imo.

We are playing enough players in the they were "good" a few years ago so might "get good" as it is. Plus what does it say about Borthwick if in his first 15/23 are now three players who weren't even deemed good enough for the announced tournament squad.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Was looking at players coming through and was wondering at Bath what is the plans for Bailey?
For me he looks like he could be a great 12, but you have Redpath and Ojomoh. I don't feel Bailey is a proper 10, so is the plan to have him at 15?

Was looking at centres Lozowski is kinda depressing starting 13 for the prem champions literally plays in any position, goal kicks.

Feels like one of the biggest wastes considering how little injuries he has had. Wondered if he went to a club and focused purely at 12 he might have gotten more chances?
12. Loz
13. Slade
Would actually be an interesting centre combo I feel.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I've said it before but Lozowski's exclusion ranks up with Ben Spencer as one of the biggest head scratchers of recent England Rugby years

Covers 10/12/13/15, goal kicks and is surprisingly fast - seems tailor made for the kind of gameplan EJ and SB want but not had a sniff