Your Lions Squad Based on this Season?

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

technical problems

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

There is quite a tradition in the Lions' jersey of #6es that were no push over. He who wore the shirt in the modern era (mostly for each tour) .
1989 Mike Teague
1993 Ben Clarke
1997 Lawrence Dallaglio
2001 Martin Corry
2005 Simon Easterby
2009 Tom Croft
2013 Dan Lydiate
2017 Sean O'Brian
On many occasions these men have been key players of their side. Like Teague, Corry, or Ben Clarke who his Kiwi opponents voted as the man they would most like to be on their side.
The list also shows the different types of contributions from that position: Ball carrier or go forward (Teague, Clarke,) link man (Croft,) defender (Dallaglio, Lydiate,) physical domination (Corry.) Richard Hill, type mobile work horse, was like a second #6 in 1997. And still Martyn Johnson's pack was under a lot of pressure on that tour to South Africa.*
These are the boots to be filled.
*What helped was having "the fastest prop in the world" at centre. Rugby league returnee Scott Gibbs who bounced off mighty prop Os DuRandt.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

From history back to the task at hand:

Where I would have the least to say is scrum half.
(The boots to fill of Dawson, Howley, Philipps, or - ultimately - Gareth Edwards.)
.
I see Price, Cooney, Gareth Davies, and Webb at a decent level. Decent that is, not stellar.

And that is just four. There will always be injuries. And three will travel.
Webb is hard to judge, but it would be late redemption.

What do you think? Is there more inspiration?

 

[General Melchett]

From history back to the task at hand:

Where I would have the least to say is scrum half.
(The boots to fill of Dawson, Howley, Philipps, or - ultimately - Gareth Edwards.)
.
I see Price, Cooney, Gareth Davies, and Webb at a decent level. Decent that is, not stellar.

And that is just four. There will always be injuries. And three will travel.
Webb is hard to judge, but it would be late redemption.

What do you think? Is there more inspiration?

Assuming Murray doesn't regain his form (and Cooney maintains his) I'd probably go Cooney, Williams and Davies with Price or G Horne as backup. Not sure I could handle three Welsh scrum halves on the same tour not to mention Biggar and Webb being on the pitch at the same time. I may end up supporting the Boks

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Assuming Murray doesn't regain his form (and Cooney maintains his) I'd probably go Cooney, Williams and Davies with Price or G Horne as backup. Not sure I could handle three Welsh scrum halves on the same tour not to mention Biggar and Webb being on the pitch at the same time. I may end up supporting the Boks

There we go, I simply forgot G Horne. He would bring a meaningful impact from the bench.

 

[LIONSxv]

Some posts on here suggesting Itoje on the bench? Whilst I get that he has been prone to give the odd penalty away, he is by far and away our best lock overall. I love James Ryan, but he is yet not at the same level for me. I've yet to see Ryan grab an international game by the scruff of its neck and drive him team on. Like him or loath him maro does that fairly regularly. I think both should start with Kruis on the bench. Picking our our strongest front three.
Just as an aside, anyone know what Ryan weighs? As he looks far heavier than 17st 6 that is listedSaying that the BBC had T Curry at 15 4. The same as Farrel

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Some posts on here suggesting Itoje on the bench? Whilst I get that he has been prone to give the odd penalty away, he is by far and away our best lock overall. I love James Ryan, but he is yet not at the same level for me. I've yet to see Ryan grab an international game by the scruff of its neck and drive him team on. Like him or loath him maro does that fairly regularly. I think both should start with Kruis on the bench. Picking our our strongest front three.
Just as an aside, anyone know what Ryan weighs? As he looks far heavier than 17st 6 that is listedSaying that the BBC had T Curry at 15 4. The same as Farrel

That's just such an enormous understatement. While I get that on his good days, Itoje is by far and away our best lock, his bad days come far too often and are far too extreme for me to consider him a better option than Kruis or Ryan.

 

[LIONSxv]

That's just such an enormous understatement. While I get that on his good days, Itoje is by far and away our best lock, his bad days come far too often and are far too extreme for me to consider him a better option than Kruis or Ryan.

Guess we are watching different games then fella. I can't recall the last time when England played where he wouldn't be amongst our top 3 players. He has also cut down on the penalty count.
It would be Intresting to ask the posters outside of our Isles, who they would least face out of the three.... BTW that is no slight on Ryan or Kruis who I rate extremely highly

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Guess we are watching different games then fella. I can't recall the last time when England played where he wouldn't be amongst our top 3 players. He has also cut down on the penalty count.
It would be Intresting to ask the posters outside of our Isles, who they would least face out of the three.... BTW that is no slight on Ryan or Kruis who I rate extremely highly

I agree that itoje has become hugely more disciplined if late. A couple of years ago it was honestly surprising to me that he could make the England side, and I would have preferred to face him than any other tier one lock.

now I would say he is one of the very best players, not just locks, in the game. As long as he can continue his run of good discipline.

Ryan is exceptional too.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

To me Itoje not on the bench!

For sure. To me he is even so vital, that I would field him in the back row.

- To free him up to do more damage around the park.
- And as a choice to have more bulk in the forwards in general. (A lock bigger than Itoje would come in, beef up the pack, and would be a better choice in the engine room for scrummaging itself.)

Surely Itoje will be one of the stars of the tour. Again.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's just such an enormous understatement. While I get that on his good days, Itoje is by far and away our best lock, his bad days come far too often and are far too extreme for me to consider him a better option than Kruis or Ryan.

Agreed.

Never quite sure whether you're going to get 10/10 (RWC semi) or 6/10 (RWC final). The Boks are v big men, Itoje's small in comparison. If he's really on it then fine, but there's no guarantee of that.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

There are other stars besides Itoje. But the big question looks like what the form and fitness of Billy Vunipola and Manu Tuilagi will be.

At best, they are hard to control. But there are also dips in their performance.

If Sinckler starts, it will be those three, which have to provide the go forward. That could tip the balance (based on all the necessary ground work at set pieces and contact points.)

Without their line breaks, all the talent out wide will be contained or just look on.

With the ball carriers on song, the unusual array of outstanding speedsters can be brought in. In order to cut loose on the dry grounds in South Africa. Back three is the strongest section of the squad with Larmour, May, Stockdale, Adams, Watson, Hogg, and Liam Williams (backed up well be more gems among which Cocanasiga, North, and Graham.)

 

[Umaga's Witness]

There are other stars besides Itoje. But the big question looks like what the form and fitness of Billy Vunipola and Manu Tuilagi will be.

At best, they are hard to control. But there are also dips in their performance.

If Sinckler starts, it will be those three, which have to provide the go forward. That could tip the balance (based on all the necessary ground work at set pieces and contact points.)

Without their line breaks, all the talent out wide will be contained or just look on.

With the ball carriers on song, the unusual array of outstanding speedsters can be brought in. In order to cut loose on the dry grounds in South Africa. Back three is the strongest section of the squad with Larmour, May, Stockdale, Adams, Watson, Hogg, and Liam Williams (backed up well be more gems among which Cocanasiga, North, and Graham.)

I agree with most of this but I think it will be hard not to play into their hands if you use billy vunipola as a starting player. Thing is, South African forwards are big and fit, and used to playing at altitude. In my view your optimal style, utilising your best players, is one that takes advantage of fitness, on top of highly efficient, organised play. As soon as you compromise too much on fitness you take away from your strengths.

In saying that, I fully agree you need go forward. So, if you don't have tuilagi in form, you will probably want to start billy. Otherwise, go with Wilson or faletau.

it will be tough to get the balance right no doubt, as the boks pack are on average are bigger, stronger, and fitter. Northern hemisphere teams excel in their organisation. You won't match them in the tight, but you can match them in the loose, and with superior organisation and smarts you can beat them there.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

I agree with most of this but I think it will be hard not to play into their hands if you use billy vunipola as a starting player. Thing is, South African forwards are big and fit, and used to playing at altitude. In my view your optimal style, utilising your best players, is one that takes advantage of fitness, on top of highly efficient, organised play. As soon as you compromise too much on fitness you take away from your strengths.

In saying that, I fully agree you need go forward. So, if you don't have tuilagi in form, you will probably want to start billy. Otherwise, go with Wilson or faletau.

it will be tough to get the balance right no doubt, as the boks pack are on average are bigger, stronger, and fitter. Northern hemisphere teams excel in their organisation. You won't match them in the tight, but you can match them in the loose, and with superior organisation and smarts you can beat them there.

Thank Umanga's Witness. Spot on. Vunipola and stamina – at the end of a long saeson, on a gruelling tour … Won't bet the ranch on it.

BTW: Your monicker appearing in this thread in such an enthusiastic way is symbolic for burying the hatchet between the Lions and Tana Umanga for good.
(Besides the other Umanga's distinguishing themselves on the pitch today and yesterday.)

 

[LIONSxv]

Agreed.

Never quite sure whether you're going to get 10/10 (RWC semi) or 6/10 (RWC final). The Boks are v big men, Itoje's small in comparison. If he's really on it then fine, but there's no guarantee of that.

Nobody in an England shirt would of scored more than 6/10 they were completely flat. We can't base squad selection and tactics based on South Africa playing at the top of their ability and an England team who were poor.
I actually think the two teams are fairly equal on paper.
I understand the petulance, whooping etc has got a lot of people to dislike Itoje. However he is clearly a world class player. I'm just Gatland is selecting the side...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Thank Umanga's Witness. Spot on. Vunipola and stamina – at the end of a long saeson, on a gruelling tour … Won't bet the ranch on it.

He's playing in the championship next season so it'll be neither gruelling nor long

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

BTW: Your monicker appearing in this thread in such an enthusiastic way is symbolic for burying the hatchet between the Lions and Tana Umanga for good.
(Besides the other Umanga's distinguishing themselves on the pitch today and yesterday.)

Off to get my spade, need to dig that hatchet up.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

He's playing in the championship next season so it'll be neither gruelling nor long

Ooups, that is a good point. Which Lions' prospects are bound to play in the Championship 2020 / 21 ? Lost track of all the loyal Saracens.

I clearly see that as a positive. Not them being undercooked (there will be a whole 6Nations in the lead up.)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ooups, that is a good point. Which Lions' prospects are bound to play in the Championship 2020 / 21 ? Lost track of all the loyal Saracens.

I clearly see that as a positive. Not them being undercooked (there will be a whole 6Nations in the lead up.)

Of potential lions I think Kruis is the only one leaving and I don't think that's even been confirmed

 

[General Melchett]

Is it safe to say Hadleigh Parkes won't be selected given that he's going to Japan and won't be playing for Wales or could Gatland do a Gatland?